I want a pocket NEX

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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by bakubo »

Greg Beetham wrote:Hmm maybe a foldout revolving rear screen that has the screen on one side and the EVF on the other, so you use it either/or.
The lens you want would be possible I think, the action of turning the camera on would cause the lens to go out to min zoom and the rear element reaches register at the same time, in anycase modern zooms don't have a fixed rear element register, it moves in and out as other elements move to get focus at any zoom position, and those aren't cheap. The only thing I'm not sure on is how small it can be made and still produce an IQ advantage over some of the other smaller sensor cameras available now. Also focus accuracy is more critical with larger sensors with the much shallower dof, it's not much use having more potential IQ and then waste it on focus gremlins, again getting that critical focus accuracy in a small package with a large sensor will not be cheap.
Do NEX and m4/3 cameras have focusing problems? I haven't been watching closely.
Greg Beetham wrote: Henry I think you will have to start thinking of doubling your projected outlay, at least, because in the end it will still be a niche camera as it won't compete at the coalface with smaller sensor cameras with a much larger zoom range.
Actually, I don't expect a camera for any price will be made that is similar to what I have suggested so it is all moot. It seems that cameras that are small enough to fit in a pocket, even relatively large pockets, will have no vf and a small sensor. Some of the small sensor (but larger than typical) cameras such as the Canon S95, Panasonic LX5, and Olympus ZX-1 look pretty good, but they don't have a vf. I have quite a lot of experience using a rear LCD on the 5 digicams I have owned. I know that although the rear LCD works quite well for some things and in some situations/lighting conditions, it is very poor in many others. Sometimes it is so poor it is pretty much unusable. But, camera companies, in order to save costs at their end, have convinced a whole bunch of people that a vf is pointless and, in fact, is old-fashioned. Oh well, someday a hotshot will have a brainstorm about putting a small little eyepiece on a camera that you can look through instead of at the rear LCD and how that little eyepiece can solve a few of the problems in some situations that people have had to struggle with for a long time using the rear LCD. People will be amazed that no one ever thought of that idea before. :D
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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agorabasta wrote:And there will be many more digicams with built-in EVFs too...
You and others have started to make me think that a 1/1.63" sensor digicam with one of those fast lenses might be okay for me -- if they had a vf. I had seen them before (Canon S95, Panasonic LX5, Olympus ZX-1), but since they didn't have a vf I didn't look at the info much further. The Panasonic and Olympus have huge accessory EVFs, but as soon as you put them on they aren't pocket cameras anymore. As long as the cameras sell well without a vf then I realize there isn't much chance that someone will make one that does have one. Just wait until Sony figures out they can remove the EVF/OVF from future SLT and SLR cameras. :) Don't laugh. If they do it there will be lots of people on forums (we already know who they are) who will be telling everybody how great it is to get rid of that anachronism. :D
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Greg Beetham
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

It’s not just the focus itself, it’s what happens at the sensor focus plane; even if a more compact lens can produce a flat enough focus field over a large enough area to cover an APS-C sensor so you don’t have soft corners, there is the vignetting/sensor shading to worry about as well at all focal lengths.
That’s what I meant mainly, it’s not much use having a large sensor in a small package if the small lens produces an image that’s worse than what is available in other small digicams. Like I said I don’t know enough about optics to be able to say how small the lens could be made and still solve all the problems; and produce superior images at the same time.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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bakubo wrote:You and others have started to make me think that a 1/1.63" sensor digicam with one of those fast lenses might be okay for me -- if they had a vf.
It's quite possible that Samsung will be the first to serve your needs. They try to stuff their AMOLEDs everywhere. And they've already got that TL500/EX1 cam with an f/1.8 lens, 10Mp CCD and a brighter-than-sun AMOLED display - that's much more usable than any LCD out there.
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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agorabasta wrote:No bone throwing here :) That above 'image-space telecentric' was a link to the Wikipedia article. That better be read.
Somehow I missed any links you posted. I will try to find it. Was it in this thread?
agorabasta wrote: I simply cannot understand how can Henry be so much interested in the topic, yet never really investigate the abundantly available info. After all, the urge of constantly getting the new info is one of the basic instincts of human beings; so it's a lot of natural pleasure and fun in itself.
Sorry to have annoyed you. :)
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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Vidgamer wrote:Ah, I didn't realize it was a link. I thought you just highlighted it for effect. :-)
Ahh, thanks for the hint! I will search through this thread again.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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agorabasta wrote:The problem is that Henry wants an equivalent of a FF/APS film P&S pocketable soapbox. That's quite impossible without having an effectively 'image-space telecentric' optical design. It means use of physically larger lenses and/or use of 3D microlens array where every single microlens is of unique size and shape which is prohibitively expensive for the type of cam in question (check the Leica designs).
Okay, found it. You did a good job disguising it. :) I will check it out!
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by agorabasta »

I have been checking the XZ-1 raw samples from DPR with the new Lr3.4.

All I can say - they are unbelievably good, so much better than the old Lx3. The greatest problem with Lx3 image quality was the poor 9-bit raw. That XZ-1 seems to have no less than 12-bit raw (effectively compressed), and the low-ISO quality is easily at some good DSLR level; ISO800 seems to be as usable as ISO3200 off some recent APSCs.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by bakubo »

Panasonic just announced their new collapsible pancake 14-42mm lens:

Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH Power OIS

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panaso ... 2_3p5-5p6/

Old Chinese Proverb: Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man who is doing it.
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Greg Beetham
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

The Panasonic 14-42 looks nice and compact, but it’s still pre-production so far and Pana won’t let any images out that have been taken with it yet, so it’s not known how successful the compact design has been image wise. I would have preferred a narrow zoom ring instead of fumbling around with a sliding switch (and which is which when you want to use it etc.) but power zoom is necessary for video, and we all know how important video in a still camera is.
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by bakubo »

I read someplace a few days ago that the NEX 7/5N/3C sensors have a new design, I think something to do with microlenses, so that the lenses (especially wide angle lenses), which are so close to the sensor, perform much better away from the center than the NEX 5/3.

Old Chinese Proverb: Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man who is doing it.

I also read that Sony in the new NEX bodies do in-camera lens corrections for jpegs.
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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The new Canon G1X with a larger than 4/3 sensor is getting surprisingly close to the sort of camera I would like to see as my carry-everywhere camera (not as a DSLR or larger camera replacement). The G1X is a still bit too bulky and heavy since it is made for the upper end of the market with lots of heavy metal and lots of external controls. It also has a much more generous zoom range and starting aperture than I have suggested so the lens is bigger. If a model with a more modest zoom, no tilt/swivel LCD, less heavy metal, and a bit smaller body came out then we would be there. Of course, I am not saying Canon or anyone else will do it since they may believe there is not enough money to be made in doing it, but technologically it is clear they could, which is what I have been saying all along.

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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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By the way, last week I reluctantly bought a Canon S95. Reluctantly because it doesn't have a VF (no OVF, no EVF). It is also smaller than I need so the handling is a bit too compromised, but not so bad. If you want a VF there are just so few choices these days in a small camera. The Canon G12 and Nikon P7100 have one, but they are just a bit too large/heavy for my in-the-pocket, carry-everywhere camera. The S95 is even smaller than I need, but fits in even smaller pockets than my 4-year old Canon A590IS (which for me isn't all that important). The S95 shoots raw and I keep it set for that. In my limited use in the last few days is pretty good -- except that even in winter Japan and not Hawaii-bright sunlight I have already discovered the lack of a VF has been a big problem that couldn't be overcome a few times so shots were lost that could have easily been taken with the A590IS. I looked at the S100, but I saw nothing that changed in it that I cared much about and the price here in Japan is significantly higher than the S95. It will be interesting to see what my choices are a year or two from now.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by bakubo »

I saw this rumor posted elsewhere. It will be interesting to see if Sony actually makes this and how big/heavy it is.

(SR5) A Sony surprise: A compact camera with APS-C sensor and fixed zoom!

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-a-so ... ixed-zoom/

The sources explicitly told me that the very interesting thing is the new compact zoom pancake lens that will come along the new camera. It will allow an extremely compact size and in short future “could” be offered as “separate lens” for the NEX system too!
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by alphaomega »

I saw that rumour as well and wondered about what was going on. My first thought was simply that since the NEX cameras were such a success for Sony and the clamour was for more NEX lenses, why on earth waste time on such a model instead of getting that pancake zoom out as an E-mount fit.
My second thought was, how can you make a camera with an APS-C sensor and a zoom compact? Would it be much smaller than a NEX-5N with that pancake zoom?
But then Sony's ways of doing things are often inscrutiable.
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