I want a pocket NEX

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Birma
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by Birma »

While I'm not in the market for a small camera (very happy with the Nex 5 :) ) if Sony do make this camera then I hope they will include RAW capability in it. I'm sure their HX series would be even more popular with this (almost?) no cost option.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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I have used the Canon G1X for a couple of weeks, and this is exactly that - almost-APS-C with a very compact innovative zoom. There are some penalties paid for the zoom design, though it has stunningly good optical performance it does not focus very close and if you shoot PASM/Raw modes, it requires two separate focus ranges close or distant, set by pressing the controller and going into a rear screen menu.... help!

Sony I am sure would not end up with just a user-unfriendly feature. Minolta patents include some remarkable compact zoom designs used on the RIVA and VECTIS models in the 1990s - four elements only for a 3X zoom, for example. Or consider the Contax T zoom design. It definitely can be done, and why not?

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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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alphaomega wrote:I saw that rumour as well and wondered about what was going on. My first thought was simply that since the NEX cameras were such a success for Sony and the clamour was for more NEX lenses, why on earth waste time on such a model instead of getting that pancake zoom out as an E-mount fit.
Good question.
My second thought was, how can you make a camera with an APS-C sensor and a zoom compact? Would it be much smaller than a NEX-5N with that pancake zoom?
But then Sony's ways of doing things are often inscrutiable.
There were a number of compact/pocketable 35mm film cameras with zoom lenses. But they also required the lens to retract when turned off. That wouldn't be suitable for a potential e-mount lens. (unless Sony goes to an 'xi' power zoom lens.?.)

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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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David Kilpatrick wrote:I have used the Canon G1X for a couple of weeks, and this is exactly that - almost-APS-C with a very compact innovative zoom. There are some penalties paid for the zoom design, though it has stunningly good optical performance it does not focus very close and if you shoot PASM/Raw modes, it requires two separate focus ranges close or distant, set by pressing the controller and going into a rear screen menu.... help!
Yesterday when I stopped by the store I thought I might see the Canon G1X there, but they didn't have it. I was surprised to see the Fujifilm X-Pro1 already there though and setting out to play with. I have read about the G1X not focusing so close. When not in close-focus mode isn't it something like 50cm or thereabouts?
David Kilpatrick wrote: Sony I am sure would not end up with just a user-unfriendly feature. Minolta patents include some remarkable compact zoom designs used on the RIVA and VECTIS models in the 1990s - four elements only for a 3X zoom, for example. Or consider the Contax T zoom design. It definitely can be done, and why not?
I don't know about the patents, but I am aware of very many of the products that have come out in the past and I know the general size and weight for these larger sensor (35mm film and APS film) cameras. If this rumor about Sony is true then it will be very interesting to see what they do. I hope they include an OVF/EVF and not make it an LCD-only camera.
Last edited by bakubo on Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by bakubo »

Birma wrote:While I'm not in the market for a small camera (very happy with the Nex 5 :) ) if Sony do make this camera then I hope they will include RAW capability in it. I'm sure their HX series would be even more popular with this (almost?) no cost option.
Yes, me too! And also I hope they include a built-in flash and OVF/EVF.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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Birma wrote:
While I'm not in the market for a small camera (very happy with the Nex 5 :) ) if Sony do make this camera then I hope they will include RAW capability in it. I'm sure their HX series would be even more popular with this (almost?) no cost option.


Yes, me too! And also I hope they include a built-in flash and OVF/EVF.
Well Birma and Bakubo,
It seems to me that this Sony camera is becoming less and less a small pocket camera. In any event I won't even look at it as my Panasonic Lumix LX5 is just so good and small as well. I repeat that Sony should focus on using their pancake patents to evolve pancake zooms for the NEX line. I am sure that provided the quality was right they would sell and increase sale of NEX cameras. Problem is they probably cannot include VR in these lenses. I would not mind a really compact quality E-mount 16-60 and 11-18mm even without VR as long as I get AF. These, together with my 55-210, would keep me really happy for a long time.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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alphaomega wrote: It seems to me that this Sony camera is becoming less and less a small pocket camera. In any event I won't even look at it as my Panasonic Lumix LX5 is just so good and small as well. I repeat that Sony should focus on using their pancake patents to evolve pancake zooms for the NEX line. I am sure that provided the quality was right they would sell and increase sale of NEX cameras. Problem is they probably cannot include VR in these lenses. I would not mind a really compact quality E-mount 16-60 and 11-18mm even without VR as long as I get AF. These, together with my 55-210, would keep me really happy for a long time.
It is only a rumor of a new Sony camera. As for size, the Canon G1X is close to what this thread is about. Go back and reread from the beginning of this thread. I think you participated earlier on. The G1X is a bit big/heavy but is getting much closer. This Sony rumor is about an unknown camera. No idea if it is real and if it is real how big/heavy it is and what it includes. I am looking forward to finding out though.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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bakubo wrote:Yesterday when I stopped by the store I thought I might see the Canon G1X there, but they didn't have it. I was surprised to see the Fujifilm X-Pro1 already there though and setting out to play with. I have read about the G1X not focusing so close. When not in close-focus mode isn't it something like 50cm or thereabouts?
I found the info for the G1X. Focusing range:

Normal: 1.3 ft. (40cm) - infinity (W), 4.3 ft. (1.3m) - infinity (T)

Macro: 7.9 in. - 2.3 ft. (20-70cm) (W), 2.8 ft. - 5.2 ft. (85cm - 1.6m) (T)

Auto: 7.9 in. (20cm) - infinity (W), 2.8 ft. (85cm) - infinity (T)
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Henry - it's the oddest setup because that full 'Auto' range for focusing is not available in PASM modes, and RAW shooting is not available in any of the other modes. Therefore, if you want to shoot RAW, you are stuck with a rear-controller and menu screen switching between ranges.

There is no apparent logic behind this restriction, as my undocumented 'trick' shows - if you set close range, but then fold the rear screen to face the camera, you get the full range in any mode and can shoot RAW.

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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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David
Now that you brought up the subject of Vectis,is there any possibility of someone creating a NEX adapter for these lenses? I've still got a full collection and always thought the primes - in particular the mirror 400mm and the 17mm produced high IQ.
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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David Kilpatrick wrote:Henry - it's the oddest setup because that full 'Auto' range for focusing is not available in PASM modes, and RAW shooting is not available in any of the other modes. Therefore, if you want to shoot RAW, you are stuck with a rear-controller and menu screen switching between ranges.

There is no apparent logic behind this restriction, as my undocumented 'trick' shows - if you set close range, but then fold the rear screen to face the camera, you get the full range in any mode and can shoot RAW.
Yes, I can't understand the idea of having a normal range and a macro range that you have to use a switch to get between when they have an auto focus distance mode that can, apparently, seamlessly move between them depending on the distance. If it can do that then why not allow that auto focus distance mode be used all the time? I suppose since it is currently available in the full auto dummy mode and not the others then it is a firmware restriction. Strange.
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Greg Beetham
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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Maybe the lens elements get reshuffled slightly for the close focussing and then isn’t as good in that arrangement for normal photography.
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bakubo
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

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Greg Beetham wrote:Maybe the lens elements get reshuffled slightly for the close focussing and then isn’t as good in that arrangement for normal photography.
Yes, but that would only happen if you try to focus on something in the close focus range. As it is the same thing happens when you manually select close focus mode anyway. It isn't a real big deal, but does seem that since the camera can automatically switch modes (if in full auto dummy mode) then an option in the menu would make sense to allow it to do the same thing in the other PASM modes. Anyway, it is a curiosity.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

What I was thinking was that the specific macro range is different to the auto range, i.e. the auto range is ok but if the user specifically chooses the macro/close focus range then the performance is better…clutching at straws perhaps, but I can’t think of any other reason for the apparent duplication.
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Re: I want a pocket NEX

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

It's definitely a firmware issue because it can be defeated by a chance combination of settings (PASM, close range, close the back LCD, get full range). I checked it all ways. There is no rearrangement of lens elements and in some auto modes - like sports action - it restricts itself to far range. This may be to prevent hunting over a wide range.

But, but but - i've been using the NEX-5n for a few days. Agorabasta is right, the 16mm is transformed. It's hard to understand how a different sensor can apparently improve corner sharpness to the point where it might as well be a different lens. My EVF arrives tomorrow. I have no interest in the G1X. In fact I've decided to sell the A77/16-50 as well. Complex reasons, but ultimately, I've been using it to replace the A900 for jobs the A900 does better, just to get my moneysworth.

I'll explain why I'm going for NEX for location/travel after I get a NEX-7 and 55-210mm (which is why the A77 must go).

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