Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

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artington
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Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by artington »

Having had the misfortune to smash my NEX-7 irreparably I have had to replace it. However, things move on and since I bought it two new contenders have arrived - the Olympus OM-D and the Fuji XPro-1. Since I have used the camera exclusively with legacy lenses I have bought no E-Mount lenses apart from the two basic kit lenses that came with the NEX-5. There was, therefore, no over-riding imperative to replace the NEX-7 with the same. Admittedly, I do have E-mount adapters for Leica-M, Leica-R and Minolta MD lenses but these are very saleable.

So, what to do? I discounted the Fuji pretty well from the start. It sounds pretty good when used with its own dedicated lenses but I am mindful of f the various issues which have disillusioned users of the X-100 and X-10. Indeed,the latter is now being heavily discounted (£350) so it looks likeFuji has been unable to fix the white orb issue. That aside, the XPro-1 is considerably more expensive than the OM-D and NEX-7 and also a lot bigger. This by itself would not have been a deal-breaker but i have no interest in an OVF and the Fuji EVF does not sound great. Critically, MF is hampered by (reportedly) slow EVF response and hard to use magnification.

I checked out tbe OM-D and was mightily impressed. For me the EVF was easier on the eye than that of the NEX-7 which came as a surprise as the resolution is lower. The LCD screen was excellent as well. And then there is in-body IS - a huge plus on paper although not all reviewers have been convinced by it. However, the clincher was the poor grip. The camera is simply too small to hold comfortably without the accessory grip, which adds another £250 to the price. Conversely,the grip on the NEX-7 is brilliant and just right. This may seem a trivial distinction, and if I had been coming to the camera afresh I might well have gone for the OM-D but I wasn't so I didn't. By all account there is little practical difference in IQ between these cameras and, clearly, the Olympus has greater lens choice for the moment. But legacy lenses work on both and crop factor undoubtedly favours the NEX. And the really attractive future lens, the 24-70 equivalent, is now available for the OM (the Panasonic 12-35/2.8 ) and is imminent for the NEX (the 16-50G). Of course, I am hoping the latter will be a 2.8 lens. If not, I may have made the wrong call!
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by Birma »

Interesting to read your thoughts on these cameras. I was especially surprised to hear that the OM's VF seemed better then the Nex 7s - as you say, just going by the numbers I'd have assumed the Nex was better.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

I have had the E-M5 for a bit over 3 weeks and after using it my overall conclusion is the same as it was when I first examined it in Tokyo on 3/31. So many wonderful points, I really like the size/weight of the lenses/camera compared to all the DSLRs/FSLRs I have been using for many years, quite happy with the IQ, S-AF is fast and accurate, but the ergonomics are rather poor compared to what could have been done even without making the camera larger. Olympus chose to make it look like a very small 40 year old film SLR and then shrunk that to make it even smaller and added a tilt rear screen and lots of controls that the larger film SLR didn't have. The NEX 7 is as small or smaller, but has a larger sensor, tilt screen, and builtin flash yet the controls, grip, and EVF are in better positions and are not so small. I am not saying the NEX 7 ergonomics are ideal, but it shows how much better Olympus could do while keeping the size the same. The following is a post I made 2.5 months ago on another forum. I was in Japan for 6 months and in Tokyo at that time for a few months so I had many opportunities to look at the E-M5.

2012/04/01

I am almost reluctant to post this because I know from my years on dpreview that there are always some people who think anything that is not a glowing opinion of the product/company that they happen to currently like is an assault on their manhood, worth as a human being, ethics, morals, religion, mother, wife, or child. :) I have something about the E-M5 that I am not too happy about, but please be assured that this is not meant as a personal insult to any of you. We are just talking about an inanimate object, a tool, albeit one that most of us have some interest in. Let's please all try to remember that. :)

After trying out the E-M5 yesterday and discovering that the ergonomics were less than I had hoped for, particularly since I use my left eye, I decided to go back to Shinjuku today to try it again. I spent a fair amount of time holding it and checking to see how it felt with it up to my eye and using the control dials, tiny top buttons, and the 2 tiny rear buttons at the top while my eye was to the EVF. Hmmm, I guess I will say that it is barely acceptable. Of course, in other ways the E-M5 is the sort of camera with the small lenses that I have really been hoping for so that influences my evaluation. Oh, and I don't have large hands (not small either). If I didn't want something like this so much I might put it on the other side of the acceptability line.

As it is, barring anything important that comes up in reviews or user reports I am still thinking I will get one later. The feel of it in my hand and the usability of controls while up to my eye though is definitely the biggest negative point. One might say that one must expect compromised ergonomics in such a small body (it is small), but that ignores the fact that the Panasonic G3 is as small and it feels better to me and the NEX 7 is smaller and it is wonderful. Of the MILCs that have a built-in EVF I would personally rate the feel and access to my most used controls while looking through the EVF with my left eye in this order:

1. NEX 7, Panasonic GH2
2. Panasonic G3
3. Nikon V1
4. Olympus E-M5

Using my right eye I would rate them in the same order. The GH2 is bigger and heavier than the NEX 7 so it isn't really fair to also put it in the #1 spot since it has the advantage of the bigger body for controls.

The E-M5 ergonomics suffer a lot because Olympus tried so hard to make it look retro and look like the old OM-1 film SLR. Yes, I know that many people like this look. Actually, Olympus made it smaller/lighter than the OM-1:

OM-1: 510g, 136 x 83 x 50mm
E-M5: 425g, 122 x 89 x 43mm
NEX 7: 353g, 120 x 67 x 43mm

Then with that reduced size they added all the controls that digital cameras need, but film cameras didn't (LCD, control wheels, buttons). And since they wanted it to look as much as possible like a smaller version of the OM-1 they put the EVF directly above the lens and in the center of the body so that it looked like an old pentaprism OVF. Well, once they put the EVF there in the center rather than offset then that meant they had even less space to cram all the controls. Definitely a form over function design. It has the retro look and that is clearly important and a selling point for many people. No disagreement from me there. Olympus, like all companies, makes products in order to sell them and they are probably right that this compromised, retro design will sell well and maybe better than a less compromised, modern design. I can't fault them for that. All I can do is offer my subjective opinion that they went too far trying to do it all: smaller than OM-1, more controls crammed onto the smaller camera than the OM-1, and putting that big EVF hump right in the middle so that there was even less space for the controls. Oh well, it is what it is.

Although there are reasons why I am not interested in the NEX 7 (big lenses, few lenses, no IBIS, slower AF) I couldn't help but be so impressed holding it right after the E-M5. Smaller size and lighter weight, but the hand hold is great, the EVF is over on the left so that it works well for people using the right eye and for people using their left eye, controls on the right side are not so cramped and small and since people who use their left eye have their face moved over to use the EVF there is no problem with using those controls. Sony still manages to get a bigger sensor (1.5x), a tilt LCD, an EVF, and a flash into the smaller/lighter body. Something more like this body with the E-M5 sensor, IBIS, and m4/3 mount would be fantastic, IMO. Even if the E-M5 EVF hump was moved to the left (even just 5mm would help) it would give more space for the controls, more space for your face, and more space for your thumb. If they did that then make the hump smaller and smooth too like the V1 since the camera would no longer look like an old OM-1 anyway. Sounds like a nice Olympus additional body. :)

By the way, I also tried using my forefinger instead of my thumb to work the rear control dial. You can do it, but then you have to take your finger off the shutter button. That is fine for many people and many types of photography. For me though it would mean missed shots. I often find myself making a quick adjustment using my thumb while at the same time my finger is ready to press the shutter release. For many people who use their left eye though using the index finger will help. Using the thumb isn't impossible though, just sort of uncomfortable and cramped.

I recommend that anyone who has any doubts at all about the ergonomics that you spend time holding it and using it before buying. Some people will be fine with it, but for some they will think Olympus just went too far.
Last edited by bakubo on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

People that know me here on this forum know that for years I have valued smaller/lighter as long as I didn't have to give up much with regards to flexibility and performance (the kinds of performance that I care about, not the types such as FPS that I don't). When I travel I want to keep things reasonably light and small since I spend lots of time each day walking around, often in hot and humid places, and also must keep gear security in mind. At one time I had hoped the NEX 7 might fit the bill, but the more I looked at it and read about it the more I realized that for my uses it was not the one for me. Then the Olympus E-M5 was announced and even though I was not at all taken by the retro looks the specs looked very interesting. In April I bought a Panasonic G3 in Tokyo along with 2 lenses to try out m4/3 and then in May I bought the E-M5, 4 more lenses, a flash (ordered the flash in May and still waiting for delivery :( ), several filters, a Minolta MC/MD lens adapter for my old Minolta MC 50mm f1.4, and an A-mount adapter for my old Sigma 90mm f2.8 macro. This is what I have now:

Olympus E-M5 body
Panasonic G3 body
Olympus 14-150mm f4-5.6
Olympus 9-18mm f4-5.6
Panasonic 20mm f1.7
Panasonic 14mm f2.5
Panasonic 45-200mm f4-5.6
Panasonic 14-42mm f3.5-5.6

Although the ergonomics, particularly for me using my left eye, are not ideal and could be improved, other aspects of the camera and system were so attractive that I decided to get the new gear. After a few weeks of light use so far I am coming to terms with the ergonomics and I hope that they will not interfere when I need to shoot fast. I decided against the 2-part extra grip ($300) because although the top part helps some aspects of the ergonomics it actually hurts a bit one other aspect. It also adds size/weight/cost.

Here is an example of my backpack travel camera kit for several trips and it is typical (this is what I used in Egypt for a month in 2009):

Sony A700 + 2 batteries + charger
Sony A100 + battery (backup body)
Sony 18-250mm f3.5-6.3 + UV filter + polarizer filter + lens hood
Sony 11-18mm f4.5-5.6 + UV filter + lens hood
Sigma 24mm f2.8 + UV filter + lens hood
Minolta 50mm f1.7 + UV filter
Sony F36AM flash + 4 AA nimh batteries
Canon A590IS digicam + 2 AA nimh batteries
AA nimh battery charger
several CF and SD memory cards
lens cleaning kit
card reader
netbook + 500gb ehd

This is what I expect to use on my next trip:

Olympus E-M5 + battery + charger
Panasonic G3 + battery + charger (backup body)
Olympus 14-150mm f4-5.6 + UV filter + polarizer filter + lens hood
Olympus 9-18mm f4-5.6 + UV filter + lens hood
Panasonic 14mm f2.5 + UV filter + lens hood
Panasonic 20mm f1.7 + UV filter
Olympus FL-300R flash + 2 nimh AA batteries
Canon S95 digicam + battery + charger
AA nimh battery charger
several SD memory cards
lens cleaning kit
netbook + 500gb ehd

The size/weight is unbelievably less!

The EVF is pretty good. To improve the DR I set it to portrait mode and minimum contrast. When I look at a contrasty scene I can see quite a large difference using these settings compared to using the default settings. I shoot raw so I don't care about the jpeg settings. On dpreview several people who own both the E-M5 and NEX 7 have reported the same as artington that they prefer the E-M5 EVF. I have never compared the 2 side-by-side so I can't really comment about that.

The IBIS seems to work very well.

I have been impressed by the IQ. Not what I would have expected from m4/3. Down near the bottom in the Output Quality section there is a table that shows the quality of various print sizes/ISOs for the E-M5, Nikon D7000, Canon 7D, etc. The E-M5 matches those two cameras:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/o ... -em5A5.HTM

I have my fingers crossed that all this new gear will work out okay for my travel. If it does then I really hope that Olympus (or Panasonic) comes out with a new m4/3 body later that has all the good stuff I like, but with better ergonomics.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by artington »

Interesting comments,Henry, which prompt me to add a few more thoughts. As I mentioned, I have used the NEX-7 exclusively with legacy lenses, mainly M-mount for size reasons (including that of the adapter). I have used MD and Leica-R as well but only with a tripod for the latter (which I am unlikely to repeat having had the camera smashed when the tripod was knocked over!). The point of this digression is that AF performance has been of no concern. Nor, for that matter had been jpeg quality since I shoot always in raw. For both these factors OM-D appears to have the edge over NEX.

So the relative merits of these two systems for me was based entirely on their MF and raw capabilities. On these factors alone the NEX won. Manual focusing was actually fine on the OM-D EVF although I was only able to try it with an Olympus AF lens - here, with the MF Assist setting the image is immediately magnified when rotating the focus ring, someting I found disconcerting; I am not clear whether this magnification can be toggled on/off with legacy lenses as it can be with tbe NEX (nor was the salesman - why do camera shops expect you to buy from them when their salesmen only understand the rudimentaries of the products?). So this was a negative, as was the lack of grip, which I think would be an essential extra for extended use. Like you, too, I found the ergonomics of the buttons and VF placement unsatisfactory and this is clearly a by-product of the silly retro design. So I think this may be more a camera for the fashionista than the cognoscenti which is a real shame because it is so good in so any ways and the lens selection is great; they seem to be pretty good; and they are small.

People say that the problem with an APS-C sensor is that AF lenses are necessarily bigger. Maybe this is so, although I note that the new Canon 40/2.8 pancake is tiny and apparently excellent to boot. So I am not so sure. As far as I'm concerned 4/3 is fine for printing A3 at 180dpi (which, along with 360dpi. Is optimal for Epson printers) and I would have gone for the OM-D if the ergonomics had been right. But they weren't. If this changes I may well jump system for AF use (there is a new Panasonic due) and retain the NEX for use with my legacy glass. Right now, neither the NEX nor the MFT systems have the optimal camera / lens size properties, but this is changing. I suspect MFT will win for AF systems on size/quality considerations but for legacy lenses the APS-C (or, dare we hope, FF) sensors are clearly more attractive.

One more thing. There are no spare OM-D batteries to be had and the grip is on back order! Get a grip, Olympus - navel-gazing time is over now.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by Birma »

Your new set up sounds like it will be much easier on the back Henry :) . The ibis and lens selection is certainly an attraction to mft. I think the whole mirror-less system genre is throwing up some really interesting products. It could make the regular dslr market seem a bit pedestrian.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

Yes, the E-M5 can be configured so that the magnified view only comes on when you want it, not automatically. I don't care much about old MF lenses, but since I already had the old Minolta 50mm f1.4 that I bought in 1976 and the adapter was only $13 I decided I might use it as an effective 100mm f1.4 occasionally. My macro lens is AF, but I have never taken a macro photo using AF -- I always use MF -- so using the cheap adapter with it is fine (it has a ring where I can adjust the aperture). I don't expect either of these lenses to get much use.

There are 3rd party batteries that lots of people have been using for the last couple of months with many good reports. A lot cheaper too. I haven't ordered any, but if I go on a trip abroad I will order a couple. Olympus, inexplicably, doesn't seem to have any here in the States. I don't know about Japan and other places.

The ergonomics are definitely not what they could be. The ergonomics for many people seem to be just fine, but for some they aren't. For me though the camera is usable (I wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't determined that beforehand), but I do hope a later camera will be better in this department. The ergonomics got a mention in this write-up a few days ago too:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... view.shtml
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

Birma wrote:Your new set up sounds like it will be much easier on the back Henry :) . The ibis and lens selection is certainly an attraction to mft. I think the whole mirror-less system genre is throwing up some really interesting products. It could make the regular dslr market seem a bit pedestrian.
While in Japan it was my first time to be able to see all the m4/3 lenses and various bodies. I didn't realize until then how small most of the lenses are. Although I have written here quite a bit about the E-M5 ergonomics I am very happy with most other aspects of the camera. It is very responsive, AF is very quick and accurate, the IQ is very good, IBIS works great, and the whole kit is much smaller/lighter than anything this capable that I have ever seen before.

We have been on a road trip for the last couple of weeks generally heading east and now heading west. We just finished a week in Williamsburg, Virginia which is the heart of the Historic Triangle: Colonial Williamsburg (colonial capital of Virginia established in 1632), Jamestown (first English settlement in the New World in 1607), and Yorktown where English General Lord Cornwallis surrendered to American General George Washington and French General Comte de Rochambeau in 1781 which led to the end of the Revolutionary War. It was all pretty cool. I have taken some photos with the new gear, but not the stuff I generally take on my backpack travels and not the kinds of situations and environment where the small/light gear is so important (since we are traveling by car).
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by cosmonaut1959 »

I sold my NEX 7 after I got my E-M5. But I used the money to pick up a back up a850. But I have been using the E-M5 for a few weeks and am very impressed. I come from a long term relationship with Olympus, E-500, 510, E3 and E5. Several Pens I never cared for. I kept the E-M5 for several reasons, in body IS, image quality, lens selection mostly wide, menu navigation, ergonomics, dust removal and battery life.
Olympus certainly has more lens selection but I also think most everything they put out is more or less kit quality lenses. Nothing close to the 4/3rd 12-60mm, 7-14mm, 50mm and 50-200mm. I think Olympus hesitates putting out SHG lenses due to the fact most m4/3rd users are casual shooters and are not going to lay down big money for a m4/3rd system.
I for one will stick to the Carl Zeiss lenses when I landscape. But for a carry all camera the E-M5 is perfect. If it only had focus peaking.
I agree the VF on the E-M5 is in a bad place. There wasn't anything wrong with the NEX 7. I didn't sell it because I was unhappy with it. I just needed/wanted another a850.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

cosmonaut1959 wrote:I sold my NEX 7 after I got my E-M5. But I used the money to pick up a back up a850. But I have been using the E-M5 for a few weeks and am very impressed. I come from a long term relationship with Olympus, E-500, 510, E3 and E5. Several Pens I never cared for. I kept the E-M5 for several reasons, in body IS, image quality, lens selection mostly wide, menu navigation, ergonomics, dust removal and battery life.
Olympus certainly has more lens selection but I also think most everything they put out is more or less kit quality lenses. Nothing close to the 4/3rd 12-60mm, 7-14mm, 50mm and 50-200mm. I think Olympus hesitates putting out SHG lenses due to the fact most m4/3rd users are casual shooters and are not going to lay down big money for a m4/3rd system.
I for one will stick to the Carl Zeiss lenses when I landscape. But for a carry all camera the E-M5 is perfect. If it only had focus peaking.
I agree the VF on the E-M5 is in a bad place. There wasn't anything wrong with the NEX 7. I didn't sell it because I was unhappy with it. I just needed/wanted another a850.
Yes, focus peaking would be nice, but since I don't really expect to use MF lenses much with mine, maybe not at all, then the magnified focus is fine. When I had the Minolta D7i a long time ago I sometimes used the magnified view to MF sometimes and it worked well. I have tried it on the E-M5 and it is even better. If I was routinely doing MF though focus peaking would be a nice addition.

There is more discussion of the E-M5 in this thread:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/vie ... =17&t=6746
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by alphaomega »

Interesting exchange of views about the merits of some NEX-7 competitors. I am still in favour of purchasing the NEX-7. Have the 16mm pancake and W/A converter as well as 18-55 and 55-210 zooms plus Alpha lenses and LA-EA2 converter. See no obvious reason for changing course. NEX-7 coming down in price. Waiting to see if Sony comes out with an attractive price for a NEX-7 & 16-50G kit. Will probably go for that if around £1200 and the G lens is reasonably compact and light. No way would I contemplate 4/3 now with my investment in A and E mount. 16-50 just right for most of my shooting and the 55-210 is just so sharp that it will handle 24Mb no sweat.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

cosmonaut1959 wrote: Olympus certainly has more lens selection but I also think most everything they put out is more or less kit quality lenses. Nothing close to the 4/3rd 12-60mm, 7-14mm, 50mm and 50-200mm. I think Olympus hesitates putting out SHG lenses due to the fact most m4/3rd users are casual shooters and are not going to lay down big money for a m4/3rd system.
I meant to mention this before, but forgot to. The following m4/3 lenses seem to be highly regarded:

Panasonic 7-14mm f4
Olympus 12mm f2
Panasonic 20mm f1.7
Panasonic Leica 25mm f1.4
Olympus 45mm f1.8
Panasonic 45mm f2.8 macro
Olympus 75mm f1.8

Here is the list of m4/3 lenses:

http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/lens.html

The new (not in above list) Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 is also supposed to be pretty good. A 35-100mm f2.8 is supposed to be out soon. I have also heard good things about the following lenses:

Voigtländer 25mm f0.95
Voigtländer 17mm f0.95
Sigma 19mm f2.8
Sigma 30mm f2.8

I have the Olympus 9-18mm and it seems pretty good. Reviews of it are very good. I also have the Panasonic 45-200mm is pretty good too. And also have the 14mm f2.5 and I think it is pretty good.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

By the way, if you want to use your old 4/3 SHG lenses then you can use the MMF-3 adapter which allows them to be used with AF. The writer of this review did that with a bunch of his lenses:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... view.shtml

Like the NEX/A-mount adapters it is mostly of interest to people who already have older lenses, I suspect.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by alphaomega »

Bakubo,
I don't think you can go wrong with your Olympus/Panasonic equipment. From my experience with Panasonic's LX2, LX3 and now LX5 I cannot imagine that a Panasonic 4/3 16Mp sensor should not be able to match a Sony APS-C 24Mp sensor for IQ and noise. If I had not invested in NEX I would have been happy to go for Panasonic 4/3. I did not because when I bought the NEX-5, Pana & Olympus were only at 12Mp and no sign they would move up the Mp scale.
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Re: Nex-7 vs OM-D. A personal take

Unread post by bakubo »

I saw today where the Olympus CEO said the E-M5 sensor is made by Sony.
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