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Re: FF announced

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:17 am
by Vidgamer
bfitzgerald wrote:Lots of stuff to complain about

- Doesn't take A mount lenses - Adaptor required = more cost
- Poor battery life
- No charger provided
- Rear LCD not full articulated
- Partial plastic mount (ie lugs are not metal)
- No IBIS
- No flash built in
- Evidently noisy shutter
- Oddball looks, subjective and maybe not that important to many
- No electronic FC shutter on A7r, slower fps, slower flash sync
- Not that cheap, even the A7 v say a Canon 6d no price advantage

Positives..

+ It's a FF sensor
+ Can use adaptors to fit lenses from many mounts

About all I can think of right now :mrgreen:
Yeah for £899 even I might get interested, but £1300 nah honestly this wasn't the blow you away release some were saying


Most of your cons probably are cons when it comes to Nex cameras. The thing I realized a long time ago is that all cameras have tradeoffs. Yeah, new tech can make newer cameras better, but generally, you can make a list of pros and cons for any camera. The trick is, what pros excite you and what cons annoy you most?

Someone might look at the Nex and just write it off as inferior, or doesn't like the handling, or whatever. A different person will see value in what it offers.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:42 am
by Vidgamer
Would I be able to redeem myself to y'all if I posted what I find "wrong" with the camera? Of course, it's not that these things are really wrong, but wrong for me.

  • It has a hump
  • It's really expensive.
  • What would I do with 24mp?
  • Lenses will be larger and more expensive.
  • I recently got a new camera.

Even so, I wouldn't write an article saying it's "disappointing" based on such things. These are choices. For some others, I can see why they'd be excited about the cameras, and I wouldn't want to take that away from them.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:19 pm
by artington
bakubo wrote:He is much more negative than I had heard from others before, but most of what I have read is by people who are posting about what they have read on the internet and specs.

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2013/10/sony-swings-for-fences-and-ends-up.html


Interesting comments by Kirk Tuck, who I think is pretty balanced in his views. Of course, there is loud and LOUD and this may be quite subjective. For example, I remember the Leica M8 used to be panned for its shutter sound but that was mainly by aficionados of Leica M film cameras which are indeed near silent. The shutter on the Sony a900, on the other hand, is LOUD full stop but, in my experience, doesn't really get in the way even of street-shots provided the ambient sound is noisy enough, which it usually is. I used one very successfully in Delhi streets (noisy!) but would have preferred smaller kit; hence my delight in the NEX7, despite its wide-angle shortcomings, and my anticipation of the A7/7R. For me, these cameras seem very keenly priced and I shall be pleased to be able to use my legacy lenses at their intended focal lengths, particularly the Leica-mount ones, even if I have to do a little adjustment in LR afterwards. And the 35/2.8 FE sounds to be a cracker - pity it isn't going to be bundled like the E16/2.8 was with the NEX5.

On the subject of IQ there are some interesting samples in this highly enthusiastic review

http://briansmith.com/sony-a7r-field-test/

However, other reviewers have noted issues with focusing and metering which, if true, will all most definitely have to be fixed by Sony.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/10 ... 7-a7r-far/

http://www.slrlounge.com/tennessee-new- ... ge-samples

It may be that it will pay not to be an early adopter despite the temptation.

Nevertheless, I really think Sony has to be congratulated for its constant innovation in imaging, which transcends its history as an electronics company before all else. Canon and Nikon are really lagging here.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:11 pm
by bfitzgerald
Let's not link to Brian Smith, great photographer but he's sponsored by Sony, paid for events etc, and on the "freebie" list so pays nothing for Sony gear. He's not likely to be overly critical of their products :roll:
We can get much more objective reviews from other resources.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:18 am
by artington
Steve Huff has done an extensive first look at these and is dismissive about the concerns expressed in one or two places about focus peaking and metering accuracy. His comments back up my own experience with peaking, ie it is a guide and has a fairly wide latitude. Indeed with focus magnification I feel it is redundant. The video below is a "hands-on" and does not touch on IQ but he has posted a number of shots on his site. Interesting for me to see the scale of these cameras, which reminds me very much of my first SLR, the Minolta SRT 101b. The onset of AF SLRs and, later, DSLRs really bumped up the size of these, as did the AF lenses, so it is really nice to get back to this in an affordable way. Of course the Leica Ms have also done this but are priced out of my bracket.

The shutter sounds are also demonstrated and it is the need for both curtains to open on the 7R which creates the more obtrusive noise but neither would be problematic for me.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/11/0 ... is-now-up/

Re: FF announced

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:00 pm
by Vidgamer
Steve's comments were interesting, particularly about the shutter sound. These things are so subjective. I prefer a quiet shutter, all else being equal; unfortunately, you don't get a choice of shutter sound, you get a choice of a camera system, and it's all-or-nothing.

If you want more blog reviews, also check out Trey Ratcliff, who recently switched from Nikon to Sony because of the Nex-7, and is, of course, interested in the A7/A7r. As far as I know, he doesn't accept any equipment from manufacturers, and bought the Nex-7 with his own money.

Speaking of meter accuracy, people on DPR are saying that the newer Nex cameras underexpose compared to the original Nex-5. I believe the opposite -- the Nex-5 overexposed, and the later cameras are better -- but it means that you have to adjust the exposure sometimes either way. Perhaps this is subjective.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:46 pm
by artington
A couple of questions about this new range. Does anyone know
1. Whether it is necessary to use the LA-EA4 adapter to achieve autofocus with A-mount lenses on the A7 (given that this camera has phase detection AF on the sensor) or will the LA-EA3 do the trick? Clearly the LA-EA4 would be required for the A7R
2. Do these cameras support Sony / Minolta wireless flash using a trigger flash on the hot shoe as on the NEX 7?

Re: FF announced

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:19 pm
by artington
bfitzgerald wrote:Let's not link to Brian Smith, great photographer but he's sponsored by Sony, paid for events etc, and on the "freebie" list so pays nothing for Sony gear. He's not likely to be overly critical of their products :roll:
We can get much more objective reviews from other resources.

That's an opinion and a rather cynical and dismissive one I feel. No his assessment is not overly critical but then I haven't seen any overly critical comments anywhere else than from you I'm sorry to say.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 am
by pakodominguez
artington wrote:A couple of questions about this new range. Does anyone know
1. Whether it is necessary to use the LA-EA4 adapter to achieve autofocus with A-mount lenses on the A7 (given that this camera has phase detection AF on the sensor) or will the LA-EA3 do the trick? Clearly the LA-EA4 would be required for the A7R?

LA-EA3 will work, but with vignette.
artington wrote:2. Do these cameras support Sony / Minolta wireless flash using a trigger flash on the hot shoe as on the NEX 7?

http://store.sony.com/a7-alpha-7-interchangeable-lens-camera-zid27-ILCE7/B/cat-27-catid-All-Alpha-a7-Cameras?_t=pfm%3Dcategory
•Flash Modes : With optional external flash: Flash off, Auto flash, Fill-flash, Rear Sync., Slow Sync., Red-eye reduction (On/Off selectable), Hi-speed sync, Wireless

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:13 am
by bfitzgerald
artington wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:Let's not link to Brian Smith, great photographer but he's sponsored by Sony, paid for events etc, and on the "freebie" list so pays nothing for Sony gear. He's not likely to be overly critical of their products :roll:
We can get much more objective reviews from other resources.

That's an opinion and a rather cynical and dismissive one I feel. No his assessment is not overly critical but then I haven't seen any overly critical comments anywhere else than from you I'm sorry to say.



It's not cynical it's stating the reality. I like Brian's work quite a lot actually, but the reality is he's on the paid/freebie list. Therefore I feel he is not able to give any kind of critique, nor has he in the past.

As Brian is a successful photographer I'm at a loss as to why he's involved in this arrangement, I could understand a broke up and coming photographer going for that, I can't an established one. BTW I have the same views for all pre-paid/sponsored celebs for whatever product they are promoting.

As for Steve Huff, he does some nice enough articles tends to get overly excited about things though.
I don't even mind Kirk Tuck as he lands some punches now and then even if I don't always agree with what he says.

I pay for my own stuff, therefore I have no particular bias or motivation to promote it, and the only time I got a loaner camera for review I returned it (Ricoh) I'm not sure why Brian can't do the same.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:42 pm
by agorabasta
pakodominguez wrote:
artington wrote:A couple of questions about this new range. Does anyone know
1. Whether it is necessary to use the LA-EA4 adapter to achieve autofocus with A-mount lenses on the A7 (given that this camera has phase detection AF on the sensor) or will the LA-EA3 do the trick? Clearly the LA-EA4 would be required for the A7R?

LA-EA3 will work, but with vignette.

Pako,

You're mixing things up here. The LA-EA3 is an FF mirrorless adapter introduced with the FF Nex camcorders. It doesn't vignette. The LA-EA1 definitely does.

But I can't say for sure if the PDAF assist may function with that adapter on those new cams. To do so, the body has to have very specific firmware features since formerly that PDAF assist always required some specific parts of firmware both inside the body and inside the lens in case of native e-mount lenses.
And then the crop Nex bodies like Nex6 absolutely could not activate on-sensor PDAF assist for any adapted lenses, regardless of adapter kind.

So, chances are, the it's only CDAF for A7 with LA-EA3.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:22 pm
by Wes Gibbon
bfitzgerald wrote:
artington wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:Let's not link to Brian Smith, great photographer but he's sponsored by Sony, paid for events etc, and on the "freebie" list so pays nothing for Sony gear. He's not likely to be overly critical of their products :roll:
We can get much more objective reviews from other resources.

That's an opinion and a rather cynical and dismissive one I feel. No his assessment is not overly critical but then I haven't seen any overly critical comments anywhere else than from you I'm sorry to say.



It's not cynical it's stating the reality. I like Brian's work quite a lot actually, but the reality is he's on the paid/freebie list. Therefore I feel he is not able to give any kind of critique, nor has he in the past.

As Brian is a successful photographer I'm at a loss as to why he's involved in this arrangement, I could understand a broke up and coming photographer going for that, I can't an established one. BTW I have the same views for all pre-paid/sponsored celebs for whatever product they are promoting.

As for Steve Huff, he does some nice enough articles tends to get overly excited about things though.
I don't even mind Kirk Tuck as he lands some punches now and then even if I don't always agree with what he says.

I pay for my own stuff, therefore I have no particular bias or motivation to promote it, and the only time I got a loaner camera for review I returned it (Ricoh) I'm not sure why Brian can't do the same.


Just because someone is sponsored by a manufacturer doesn't mean that their opinions are worthless - after all, that is probably the only way Sony can get someone to give an in-depth review of what it is like to use a camera for real, rather than just run a few standardised tests in an afternoon. Of course, you have to take account of their financial backing, and sometimes a few apparently minor criticisms are contained within the detail of a report that seems to be favourable overall.

I have to say that in this case the Brian Davis 'Field Test' didn't say anything of great value. By the way, you have been quite critifcal of the A7/A7R, but it is not clear to me if you have actually tried them out yet.

A couple more points:
- Just because a photographer is established and well-known doesn't necessarily mean they are well off.
- I don't see landing punches as a reviewer's primary function.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:26 pm
by bfitzgerald
Not sure I can agree on this.
As far as I'm aware most makers have "review gear" ready to send out to various publication/review sites. In the majority of cases the items have to be returned to the maker. Some sites disclose this, some don't.

I've had suspicions for a while that some review sites get freebies, some state they do not accept any kind of gifts/payments/freebies. It's hard to know exactly what goes on until a reviewer or site makes a declaration.
So I think plenty of opportunity for Sony to get their stuff out there for review.

As for sponsored or paid for shooters, it's up to them what they do. I can of course appreciate the attraction of that. However I have no interest and put no faith in what is said by them. Chase Jarvis did a nice bunch of videos and blogs as well as magazine shoots for the D7000, maybe he got a good one, I got 2 lemons :mrgreen: I paid for my bodies Chase didn't with his.

If I'm paying for something or borrowing a camera to give an opinion it's entirely different to getting one for nothing. it is IMHO impossible to give a balanced view of a product, if you get that product for nothing or you are sponsored. If I go to Brian's site I want to read his blog about "his photography" which I like. Not a bunch of Sony adverts/posts which tell me nothing about the photographer's work.

Based on my own personal experience with Nikon and Pentax, yes I very much do want to hear about possible concerns, issues, or problems. Because I encountered those when I bought the products myself. Sadly, today very few sites are able to give an honest review, or use a product for long enough to reveal flaws and problems. You can hardly blame me for being "glass half empty" it's my money and I'd rather spend it on stuff that works :lol:

As for the A7 stuff I'm not dismissing it at all, just saying it's getting overhyped and after a few weeks of it, gets a bit tedious to say the least.
I can however see some advantages of it, and I can also say that it's not overly exciting for myself because it's not my kind of product!

Whatever you might think of my own views, at least there is no pay cheque at the end of it. If I find stuff that's good (18-135mm) I say so, if it sucks I say so too (Nikon/Pentax issues, as well as the problems I had with Sony support)

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:01 pm
by artington
This chap has tried it, likes it and specifically disclaims any sponsorship by Sony

http://www.frankdoorhof.com/site/2013/1 ... 7r-part-i/
http://www.frankdoorhof.com/site/2013/1 ... -and-more/

Re: FF announced

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:31 pm
by Wes Gibbon
bfitzgerald wrote:it is IMHO impossible to give a balanced view of a product, if you get that product for nothing or you are sponsored.

Granted, but in this case the reviewer may nevertheless be better able to give an idea of what it is like to live with the camera than someone who has to hand it back after a set period of time and has not really had a chance to get to know it. What are you saying - that you should identify the review that you think is the most balanced and base your purchasing decision entirely on that one review? I would prefer to consider a range of reviews, bearing in mind that sponsored reviewers are not likely to be even handed but may be able to provide insights that others don't. I wouldn't take much notice of Brian Smith in this case, not because he may be biased, but because I don't think he said anything of interest.
bfitzgerald wrote:As for the A7 stuff I'm not dismissing it at all, just saying it's getting overhyped and after a few weeks of it, gets a bit tedious to say the least.

Where is it getting overhyped? It's the first FF CSC (and the A7R is only the second FF camera with 36Mp and without an AA filter) so it's the biggest story for a while and will remain so until the next big story comes along or people run out of things to say about it, which I think is already happening (except on this Forum topic!).
bfitzgerald wrote:I can however see some advantages of it, and I can also say that it's not overly exciting for myself because it's not my kind of product!

In that case, I'm not sure why you are taking such an interest in it.