FF announced

For discussion of the E and FE mount mirrorless system
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pakodominguez
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby pakodominguez » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:33 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:Let's not link to Brian Smith, great photographer but he's sponsored by Sony, paid for events etc, and on the "freebie" list so pays nothing for Sony gear. He's not likely to be overly critical of their products :roll:
We can get much more objective reviews from other resources.

Since 99% of your commentaries are negatives, I can only believe that they are as biased as the ones Brian Smith have -actually, his input is more valuable that yours since it is clear he's paid for (and we still don't understand why you only have negative criticism against Sony).

And at this stage you can not really get "more objective' reviews from this cameras, mostly because bloggers or reviewers are not experienced photographers as Brian Smith (or the rest of the photographers on the Sony Artisans of Imagery program, like David McLain, Andy Katz, Cristina Mittermeier, Matthew Jordan Smith, etc) and they haven't really work with the camera, jus played around for a couple of days with it.

By trying to censor Brian Smith you are only stopping forum member to have access to valuable information from someone that had been working with this new cameras and lenses before (and deeper) than bloggers or even specialized journalist. By doing this, you can still say that the mount is plastic, even if you haven't even had the camera in our hands (or talk with someone that can really answer that question)

And, just in case no one noticed yet Barry, you have no privileges here for censoring anyone, or any information.
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pakodominguez
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby pakodominguez » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:48 pm

agorabasta wrote:
pakodominguez wrote:
artington wrote:A couple of questions about this new range. Does anyone know
1. Whether it is necessary to use the LA-EA4 adapter to achieve autofocus with A-mount lenses on the A7 (given that this camera has phase detection AF on the sensor) or will the LA-EA3 do the trick? Clearly the LA-EA4 would be required for the A7R?

LA-EA3 will work, but with vignette.

Pako,

You're mixing things up here. The LA-EA3 is an FF mirrorless adapter introduced with the FF Nex camcorders. It doesn't vignette. The LA-EA1 definitely does.

You are right! sorry for the confusion.
agorabasta wrote:But I can't say for sure if the PDAF assist may function with that adapter on those new cams. To do so, the body has to have very specific firmware features since formerly that PDAF assist always required some specific parts of firmware both inside the body and inside the lens in case of native e-mount lenses.
And then the crop Nex bodies like Nex6 absolutely could not activate on-sensor PDAF assist for any adapted lenses, regardless of adapter kind.

So, chances are, the it's only CDAF for A7 with LA-EA3.

Both LA-EA3 and LA-EA4 are listed as compatible for the A7 and A7R, but on the description page http://store.sony.com/a-mount-to-e-mount-mount-adaptor-zid27-LAEA3/cat-27-catid-All-Cameras-Alpha-DSLR-Accessories;pgid=0U5YanijPshSRpwDEi94ubxG0000QAuW0cJU?_t=pfm%3Dsearch%26SearchTerm%3DLA-EA3+, AF capability is not mentioned at all.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:03 pm

pakodominguez wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:Let's not link to Brian Smith, great photographer but he's sponsored by Sony, paid for events etc, and on the "freebie" list so pays nothing for Sony gear. He's not likely to be overly critical of their products :roll:
We can get much more objective reviews from other resources.

Since 99% of your commentaries are negatives, I can only believe that they are as biased as the ones Brian Smith have -actually, his input is more valuable that yours since it is clear he's paid for (and we still don't understand why you only have negative criticism against Sony).

And at this stage you can not really get "more objective' reviews from this cameras, mostly because bloggers or reviewers are not experienced photographers as Brian Smith (or the rest of the photographers on the Sony Artisans of Imagery program, like David McLain, Andy Katz, Cristina Mittermeier, Matthew Jordan Smith, etc) and they haven't really work with the camera, jus played around for a couple of days with it.

By trying to censor Brian Smith you are only stopping forum member to have access to valuable information from someone that had been working with this new cameras and lenses before (and deeper) than bloggers or even specialized journalist. By doing this, you can still say that the mount is plastic, even if you haven't even had the camera in our hands (or talk with someone that can really answer that question)

And, just in case no one noticed yet Barry, you have no privileges here for censoring anyone, or any information.


Change the record Pako :lol:

I'm not censoring anyone feel free to say what you want, and Brian is also welcome to post here if he wishes.
Don't have a problem with the other linked to review either, people are quite entitled to post what they like.
I've no time for anyone on the Sony Artisans program, but the same applies to any other company that pays people to post views.

I'd put money down the secondary tabs are plastic because they look identical to other E mount bodies.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby artington » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:35 am

There has been comment in places about poor focusing when using focus peaking. I am not sure whether this refers to focus peaking generally or only when used with classic MF lenses. The thread excerpt linked below, as well as having some impressive examples of the 40/2 Summicron-C, a lens I have praised before (in it's Rokkor variant), includes a comment to the effect that focus peaking should be switched off when using such lenses as it is inaccurate - apparently high edge contrast is not always the same as sharp focus. Personally I find increasingly that focus peaking gets in the way and I prefer to use magnified view to get critical focus. This is certainly much more reliable than RF focusing and hugely better than the split screen / shimmer method that was commonly used in MF SLRs.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/ ... astmessage

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Wes Gibbon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:16 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:Change the record Pako :lol:

Ever heard of glasshouses and throwing bricks?

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bfitzgerald
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:56 pm

Wes Gibbon wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:Change the record Pako :lol:

Ever heard of glasshouses and throwing bricks?



I've heard it but it's not applicable here. Pako has a habit of jumping in and making personal remarks and accusations. (not the first time either)
I've stated someone is paid for their views, I don't need to add more than that. What I haven't done is attack anyone personally on this forum.

Anyway after the insane price of the Nikon DF, I'll at least give Sony credit for not being completely nuts price wise

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Vidgamer » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:25 pm

On a Sony forum, I think it's probably OK for people to get excited about a new camera that looks to be a top performer.

About using on-sensor PDAF to focus A-mount lenses, they didn't do this for the Nex cameras, but it would be a nice feature that I wish they would add. I think for decent AF and A-mount lenses, we're probably going to have to stay with the EA2/EA4 adapters.

Magazines have been given free samples for ages and some websites/bloggers continue the long-held tradition. In other cases, even if not provided free samples, some people clearly have a favorite brand (or a hated brand). You should take most reviews with a grain of salt. There are some popular names who strive to be independent (like Trey Ratcliff).

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:24 pm

I don't mind Trey Ratcliff he's upfront about things, he liked the NEX 6/7 bodies and I can see why they suit his needs, but he will make comments about dumb stuff too (ie the menus etc)

I read a comment by Trey saying his site is profitable hence he can pay for his gear and travels, so why bother with freebie stuff? I've a lot more time for someone like that, and put a lot more weight into their comments and thoughts because of that. I'm not into the HDR type thing, and the tutorial/LR presets sales scene, but hey if it works for him and others fire away.

On the NIkon DF, I think (yes sorry Pako it's negative!) it's a misfire from Nikon. Strange attempt to merge old school top plate, turn the camera around to it's back and it's any mid level and up recent Nikon DSLR, it's odd and just looks like someone has tried "too hard" to do retro, without thinking about things properly. I don't think it works over cluttered and looks confused almost over engineered as if they had a room full of people brainstorming and they "went with" every one of their ideas lacks refinement IMO.

And shoving the D7k/D600 AF in there is a worrying sign too. Folks that might want a body like this want a split image focus screen for accurate manual focus. Not a 39 point AF system with a focus screen that's horrible for MF (and Nikon's focus screens are terrible for MF)

DF is almost the reverse of the A7.
And that £2750 pre order price is shocking even for die hard Nikon fans.

A7 actually looks quite appealing after that, problem is those add on adaptors add cost and for A Mount users we're no better off than if we had a native A Mount FF DSLR. Sony's mistake isn't E mount, it's not delivering the goods for A Mount users who are long invested in the system.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:40 pm

Nikon must be desperate to launch yet another D5000 variant in such a short space of time since the D5200, we now see a D5300, and so it goes on.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby pakodominguez » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:59 pm

Video: Sony A7/A7R: The Newest Tools for Photojournalists http://wp.me/p3vITX-3R6
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby alphaomega » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:08 pm

Reference Barry Fitzgerald's long held view that
A7 actually looks quite appealing after that, problem is those add on adaptors add cost and for A Mount users we're no better off than if we had a native A Mount FF DSLR. Sony's mistake isn't E mount, it's not delivering the goods for A Mount users who are long invested in the system.
there is an interesting interview with Sony's Kimio Maki on DPReview
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/968911 ... =title_0_3

Excerpt re A mount.

Q: How do your two interchangeable lens camera systems - E / FE-mount and A-mount mesh together? In the future, how will the relationship between those two systems evolve?

A: Basically, the role of the two mounts is different. We can make E mount cameras and lenses smaller than A-mount. But for A mount we can realize superior image quality with better new technologies. Both systems exist under ‘Alpha’ and both are created with the same philosophy - to create something new, which never existed before. That is the main thing in my mind. That is Sony. That is the mission. To make people say ‘wow’ and to surprise them - to drive the customers’s imagination. That is my dream and that is our mission at Sony. The Sony spirit goes back to our founders, Akio Morita and Masaru Ibuka.


I have my A-mount system, but now mainly use my RX-100 and NEX-6/5N due to weight/size issues. Sony is segmenting their offerings and not going mainly for volume low cost cameras. Smaller volumes of different innovative offerings to various segments. I have always thought that Sony's only route to succes is to develop a new game instead of beating CAN/NIK at their game. I think that Sony are on the right track. Opeing up the E mount to allcomers is bound to increase camera sales and some CAN/NIK users who experience the A7/A7r and the RX series may actually switch to Sony. I think the jury is still out on Sony's strategy. I would not write them off just yet. As the younger generations move into cameras they will be more disposed towards quality EVF as well and these are improving all the time.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:45 pm

I read the interview on DPR with Kimio Maki

It's a bit of a mixed bag really.
RX100 yes I can see Sony spotted a gap in the premium compact sector, ie bigger 1" sensor and that wasn't a bad move at all
QX is a misfire from Sony, I just can't see people wanting to carry a lens around for a smart phone that's a DOA oddball effort
RX10 I think is doomed on price alone, quality is good..but we're in £300 DSLR territory now, £1000 bridge camera just isn't going to work
RX1 - Rich boys toy, not mass appeal product niche, not really that relevant to the market.

A7 I get the thinking, appeal to many mount users sort of a universal camera, that's not a bad take to have and might do ok "if" Canon don't do a budget rebel FF body (which they will because it will sell in crazy numbers)

A mount well his comments are too vague to really be of much use. I don't have a problem with the "innovation/try new things" but he never once mentioned the obvious. This is a system (and so is E mount) coming out with "exciting" new and different products does not always mean hitting the mark. Sony seem stuck on trying to appeal to new users (many of whom are heavily invested in Canikon), but not really fleshing out the system, ie flash, lenses and bodies that people will want to buy.

He seems overly worked up and excited about "new stuff" when all we want is basic simple stuff!

Sony have not been able to attack Canikon effectively because they keep constantly changing, and not concentrating on the "system"
For all I care I'd have a FF sensor shoved into a Dynax 5d and that would be quite nice thanks very much, I don't need all this NFC, sweep pano, smiler shutter gimmicks and technology. Keep it simple, clean and affordable.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Eiffel » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:22 pm

There is always hope that Sony will see the light and make the digital equivalent of the 600si Classic (barebone without unnecessary gizmos old school body with great ergonomics and modern technology where it matters).

Amusingly, the A700 and A900 had a lot in common with this camera, but technology has progressed since.

We'll see what Sony has in store. Hopefully they'll get the best of the 'retro' trend.
Proud owner of DK's dearly missed A900 ;-)

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:35 pm

Its obvious that all these news gizmos and magic wizardry, in these latest cameras is aimed at the younger technophobe who will lap it all up as yet another electronic play thing like his all singing all dancing mobile. Taking pictures will be secondary.
Ok, I'm being facetious, but I have to agree with Barry, give us a good basic stills taking machine and drop all the bo----cks.
To my friends 10 year old son, these high tech cameras are just another computer which the lad has mastered blind fold, to me its a 'black art' that I did not want to pay for in the first place but had no choice.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby alphaomega » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:46 pm

Ok, I'm being facetious, but I have to agree with Barry, give us a good basic stills taking machine and drop all the bo----cks.

Classiccameras, the good news is that these Sony cameras are already with us.

I have A580/550/NEX-6/5N and RX100 all set on Auto/AdobeRGB/Aperture priority and it all works like my old X700 except for the AF, for which I am grateful. The A580/550 even have OVF and the NEX-6 EVF is not bad although could be brighter in sunshine. The bonus is that I can alter the ISO without having to change film and I can review the results instantly.
Times are good indeed for photographers.


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