Photoclubalpha

Probably had to happen somewhere sometime but SAR are reporting that Sony is the market leader in ILC in South Korea and that CSC are outselling DSLR by 58% to 42%.

It's only a single market but it is not only one of Asia's wealthier economies but one of the most technologically sophisticated. It does reinforce trends that have been apparent for several years now.

Now if Canon and Nikon users are lucky, this pressure will force these companies to offer more innovative products whether CSC or DSLR. But is anyone out there willing to bet on it ? Or will the all new all dancing Nikon D3400 simply come out in more colours and the D5400 have a built in Android phone but without up to date software so you will have to buy a new camera every time there is a new security scare ?

Nikon are on a building by numbers marketing strategy, lets add one digit each year to keep people on board, but its the same old body, same old shape.
On a global market Canikon rule and by a long way, but as Peter said, some Asian markets are opting for 'smaller' although i'm not sure where Japan stands on this, the Japanese tourists in London all seem to be carrying Canikons or high end compacts, I rarely see a ILC.
I guess now that all marketing strategies by most camera manufacturers is to cram in as many gadgets and non picture taking functions as they can to woo the younger set. In a way they are alienating tradtional photographers in favour of the gadget monkeys. I think I will dust off my old SLR.

I wonder whether surveying a herd of tourists is likely to give anyone much of an idea of current trends let alone what the immediate future will bring. They will often represent things past rather than the present even if years if not decades off retirement age. Think about the stereotypical camera club of 20 years ago still dominated by the attitudes inculcated in the senior members in the 1950's.

It is very likely that you are not dealing with many who could be classed as photographers.What I mean is how many of them would buy photographic or art magazines or visit web sites ? Do they think about photographing on a daily basis - so that even if not carrying a camera are composing in their head as they go about their normal day ?

Hmm, your probably right, I will have to be more careful what I write in the future.

The happenings in N. Korea and maybe elsewhere in Asia could be a mini version of what happened to Microsoft when Gates slept for two years on his watch, forgetting about the Internet and letting Google steal a march on him unchallenged. Google search now more important than Bing and Android beating Win 8 for smartphones by several furlongs. Could be that CAN/NIK will be the "catching up" crowd if they don't change track soon. Time will tell, but I am firmly of the opinion that Sony are now pursuing a strategy that provides them with the best opportunity to seriously challenge CAN/NIK.

That sounds about right, but I think Sony are an even bigger threat to M/4/3, especially Olympus. The Sony NEX series was a serious challenge in the ILC catigory and I read some where, they have done some damage to Pen sales. The Pen model range is alreay being shrunk because of reduced sales.

The problem is the markets are so different that what happens in one region has almost no bearing on another.
ILC's have been popular enough in the Asia/Far eastern market..much less so in Europe and the USA

Europe and the USA are a huge chunk of the market on a global level.
There is a danger that because camera makers are mostly based in Japan, they misread what buyers are looking for

Evidently the Pentax Q was a bit of a hit in Japan, but I've more chance of bumping into Michael Jackson or Elvis in my local branch of Tesco, that finding someone with a Pentax Q

I don't have a problem with ILC's, some of them might be of interest later on (might be, might not be) but it's not because they're mirrorless, it's "despite that"
Right now the market is too mixed up, too many makers and models and incomplete systems it's really not a good time IMO to buy into a new system.
Being blunt, I think makers are going to have to sell ILC the only way they can..ie offer an incentive that sticks, my vote goes for "less parts, less cost to end buyer" that's about the only way I see major market share improvements with this type of camera.

bfitzgerald wrote:Evidently the Pentax Q was a bit of a hit in Japan, but I've more chance of bumping into Michael Jackson or Elvis in my local branch of Tesco, that finding someone with a Pentax Q

Not true! Neither will go to Tesco, they don't like horse meat!

Dusty

My nearest photographic shop SRS Watford who are a Pentax main dealer don't seem to be selling many Q cameras.

An interesting celebrity endorsement for mirror-less from Trey Ratcliff http://youtu.be/J1Tn4gI7U_s.

In summary, he says: they have great sensors and can take pictures of the same quality as dslrs, have more features, the kit is smaller, allows him to achieve better focus, and to use any lenses he wants to.

Whether you agree with him or not, he has a massive reach on social media among photographers (as opposed to people who buy and entry level dslr when going on a big holiday).

My thought is kind of the opposite of Barry's -- I'm afraid that because DSLRs sell well in the US and Europe, the manufacturers will concentrate on those models and not provide smaller ILC cameras that I would prefer. It's been a long wait for a high-quality but compact camera, and I don't want to go back to the boat anchor!

It is that Canon and Nikon have been so less than enthusiastic that has given Sony a leg up after their previous attempts ran out of steam. I have no idea whether the multiple SLT strategy was intended as a mid term strategy or am holding operation and it did generate some sales but they were hoping for more.

And of course not Barry is not going to see Mickey and Elvis at his local Tesco. Mickey has become like Howard Hughes a total recluse and Elvis is living as an Elvis impersonator in Parkes. Where better to hide in plain sight than in a town which has an Elvis Weekend so that he simply merges with more than 2000 other Elvi ?

It looks like they are trying to flog MILC’s and using any tool they can to do it, now that they have sunk so much into them.
I have no idea what demographic niche in S. Korea or Japan buys MILC’s in large enough numbers that they outsell traditional systems. There must be a lot of new customers who are suddenly interested in photography for the first time and they all want MILC’s regardless (highly unlikely), either that or the numbers are padded a tad.

MILC’s have a couple of problems overtaking traditional systems in the West at least. One is a lot of customers looking for a new camera might have some lenses already from a previous system or hand me downs and don’t want to use adaptors because of the problems, and the main ones are they will most likely end up with no AF or IS depending on what is mated with which.

Why would they want to buy a camera that uses a new different set of lenses to what they already have when they can just buy a newer model camera body that suits their existing lenses?

So apart from ‘second system’ MILC’s for convenience and for travel I can’t see wholesale switching over from the existing mounts just to enjoy using an adaptor and lose AF and IS in the process, or alternatively more or less abandon their old system for a new system and then have to tool up with a couple of new lenses as well, that whole idea is not making much sense so far.

I think I detect a load of horseradish somewhere in that MILC sales story, you can fool some of the people some of the time but…etc.
Greg

I nearly faltered a few years back but had 3 main reasons not to swap mount either E or a different maker.
- I had a small selection of legacy Minolta/KM glass as well as a few Sony A mounts.
- As I mainly use my gear for wildlife/aviation I found the NEX bodies too small and I wanted a viewfinder of some kind (preferably OVF but EVF will do).
- I had the best 70-400 lens on the market, the 70-400G which I use a hell of a lot as witnessed by the scuffs on the hood and body.

It's really only the advent of the new Nikon 80-400 that I would have perhaps considered a swap.
My aquisitions over the last few years have cemented my A mount position culminating in the A99 which I use 95% of the time as the IQ with my KM 28-75 f2.8, 70-200G and 70-400G is just superb. The APSC also has a place as I gain effective focal length on the 70-400 for longer range shots.

The plethora of E mount stuff and converters needed just puts me off totally even though smaller travel kit would result.
I'm off to Japan in the autumn and will be taking my big stuff.

Mike

Vidgamer wrote:My thought is kind of the opposite of Barry's -- I'm afraid that because DSLRs sell well in the US and Europe, the manufacturers will concentrate on those models and not provide smaller ILC cameras that I would prefer. It's been a long wait for a high-quality but compact camera, and I don't want to go back to the boat anchor!

I'm not seeing a shortage of mirrorless models for people to look at. Nobody can really complain about that.
Photography never was one glove fits all, I'm not looking for huge bulky cameras, nor do I need tiny ones. There is a middle ground where some of us like to be.

Anyway I fail to see the point of a tiny body and a massive lens

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/more-inf ... s-xlr-kit/