Post about the A7R II up now

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David Kilpatrick
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Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:34 pm

I've done a post on the A7R II, and have hands-on the camera tomorrow, though not sure whether any proper tests or reporting will be allowed.

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2015/06/1 ... -obsolete/

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby pakodominguez » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:46 am

Enthusiastic?
;-)
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Dr. Harout
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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby Dr. Harout » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:48 pm

David, at least you may give us some hints...
I will most probably buy it (most probably = 99.99%)
A99 + a7rII + Sony, Zeiss, Minolta, Rokinon and M42 lenses

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David Kilpatrick
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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:16 pm

No pictures allowed and pretty hard to say anything more. Yes, I think it's probably a great camera but yesterday's trip only reinforces my absolute contempt for Sony and how they run things in the UK.

Here's how it used to work: the sales or PR manager for an importer would call me and say, we've got a new product, can we send it to you; or, do you want to come into the office/warehouse, we've got some new stuff to look at; or, I've got a new camera but only one sample, can I call in and you can shoot some tests. Or, our regional retail rep has a sample, can you meet up... etc.

If there was a big event, all costs would be covered past getting to the nearest train station or airport or in some cases, I'd cover the cost of getting myself to a central departure point like Gatwick, maybe even pay for an overnight hotel stay to make sure everything went smoothly. Typical events involved a destination which was very photogenic and the guaranteed use of one camera per delegate for maybe 1 or 2 days. The first time this really went wrong was the Nikon D200 event, where they flew a small party of journalists to Marrakesh in winter for a couple of days (very sensible, avoiding the dull UK weather and limited subject matter). On arrival none of the D200 cameras could be used and we were given D70s. Sony's A100 launch was the same year, same place, and at that time they at least had cameras to use, lenses to use, and no 'sorry these are just prototypes' stuff.

Now? You get invited to attend, at your own expense, a meeting in a room at a venue with absolutely no photographic interest (Pinewood studios, where the A7R II etc launch was held, actually forbids all photography on the site but no-one paid any attention to that). The purpose of the meeting is so that video and web bloggers can do a blog saying they have gone to the meeting. Apparently it's enough just to show yourself holding a camera. A colleague of mine running a trade paper wanted just to get 'a picture of one of the girls' (Sony marketing) holding the camera. Sony does appear to have paid for European press to be there, but they too must have been very short-changed by their wasted time.

Some of the staff know something about a bit, but not much. They had a powerpoint presentation which I missed - but the moment anyone mentions a powerpoint presentation, I know they've lost the purpose of doing this. I could watch that on a web page. I am not going to ask any questions or make too many comments in company of a couple of dozen other journos as all that does is feed them my information/knowhow. In practice it's easy to identify the two or three who are on the same wavelength and get something back as well as giving - one to one, not during any larger meeting. We did this with Metabones and my two independent adaptors and two Canon lenses I'd brought along, two of us and a couple of Sony guys making repeated tests with settings - by far the most useful time spent.

But that should be done in a different situation. In the past, the marketing exec was often also the sales manager and also the technical expert (still is with some companies, like Sigma in the UK). Now there's hardly any point in talking to the PR people as they honestly don't have the first clue what is being talked about.

So I wish I could say more but they didn't even have any full sized prints from the camera, any full sized files to give us, any examples of ISO settings. 4K video playing on big screens, impressive slow motion, but it was impressive on my Mac last week - same clips - and really didn't 'give' me anything in return for my time and expenditure.

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby ValeryD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:18 pm

It's very strange presentation by Sony. Sound like Sony used a new marketing plan and new policy of sale for the cameras and the lenses, definitely not like before in 2014 or earlier than that.
David, as you explaining all events, we have same in Canada. Anyway we can wait.
Everything in the life unusual!

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby pakodominguez » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:39 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:Some of the staff know something about a bit, but not much. They had a powerpoint presentation which I missed - but the moment anyone mentions a powerpoint presentation, I know they've lost the purpose of doing this. I could watch that on a web page. I am not going to ask any questions or make too many comments in company of a couple of dozen other journos as all that does is feed them my information/knowhow. In practice it's easy to identify the two or three who are on the same wavelength and get something back as well as giving - one to one, not during any larger meeting. We did this with Metabones and my two independent adaptors and two Canon lenses I'd brought along, two of us and a couple of Sony guys making repeated tests with settings - by far the most useful time spent.

But that should be done in a different situation. In the past, the marketing exec was often also the sales manager and also the technical expert (still is with some companies, like Sigma in the UK). Now there's hardly any point in talking to the PR people as they honestly don't have the first clue what is being talked about.

Hi Dave,

You are probably better off having a skype interview with Mark Weir (I believe Gary Friedman have his contact information) for technical information -You might have 8 hours difference time between UK and California, but Mark is the guy to go.
Here an interview where you can get some info:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/20 ... the-future
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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:16 am

Truth is, for the cost of a trip to London, I might as well get a flight to New York and spend a day with the guys at B&H... I could visit Sony in Germany cheaper.

Information is not a problem - and Sony is very controlling, Mark always sounds as if he is not governed by their normal methods (all statements to be pre-written and approved by a workgroup). Paul Genge in the UK got some stick from me because I felt he was negative, but in fact compared to what's there now, he was pro-active and highly knowledgable and committed.

I'm just remembering when Bill Christie set up Minolta UK. It was all run on a shoestring but they didn't waste a penny and all the resources went into making things work. But it was a different world. We were all sort of 'just missed being hippies' because the ones who actually GOT to be hippies either became Richard Branson or are still living in teepees. Nobody really bothered about accounts and auditing except the accountants and auditors, the managers were salesmen and the staff were enthusiasts. Now... well, it's all down the pan really. There's not even any real art in it. That picture I show of the print of the truly crappily made up girl in the 1980s cliché lying down with flowers all round pose. When we did that (and we did) it was new because flowers had only just been invented, Fujichrome was new, and brightly coloured funky make-up only came from ethnic stores and we knew where to get it. But we had models with perfect skin because no girl could be a model then without absolutely perfect skin - due to the cost of retouching.

We even had Graham Stark, who was most memorable at the saki-box opening of Minolta. I did eventually get Shirley back.

David

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:03 pm

Can't really comment on the Sony "team" or their marketing machine or how it works, my own dealings with Sony in service (and to be fair other makers) convinced me they're massively out of touch with basic customer support let alone have the marketing expertise to pull it off.

The best companies I've dealt with or been in touch with are from China/Hong Kong they're completely dedicated on the ball 150%, anyone who's even remotely related to doing reviews/blogs etc would have had products fed-ex priority express on their door in 24 hours of release then skype/email/phone support for any questions they would welcome feedback and improve their product quickly. Maybe it's a culture thing I have no idea of what goes on but my dealings with major camera makers has been indifferent, aloft cold and uninterested even as a paying customer.

My dream would be a 100% China company with a system top to bottom they'd charge half the price you'd get maybe 90% of the quality (maybe a few bits needing some work) and happy days all round. I'd dump my entire inventory on such a company. Hate to be blunt but Japanese camera company = Arrogant in a word that's how I've found all of them. You have to drag them through the mud publicly to get them to provide basic customer support :mrgreen: I can imagine they're even less interested in reviews. I'd add Samsung to that list too another non existent customer care company I've dealt with albeit Korean based. Big companies are generally out of touch with users and the public

Rant mode half off. My requirements would be
Don't need 42mp but do need M or S raw I don't want to waste time ploughing through 42mp raw files for wedding shoots (I just need nowhere near that resolution)
Better battery life, it's not great on SLT but it's acceptable it's well below par on the ILC's I've used I usually carry a 2 spares at least a gripped A77 lasts me an entire day shooting and I'd maybe hit battery 2 at the reception I'd chew through more than double that on an ILC
I like GPS no idea where Sony's research came from saying users didn't want it I'd take it over wi-fi any day but shove both in keep people happy
Not having a built in flash is a PITA Minolta got it why can't Sony? I use it often to trigger flashes it saves time and bag space
Larger body, I ignore these blogs and posts about "oh it's too heavy" "don't make it too big"ditto on DPR reviewers you plonk a fast lens and shoe mount a flash on an ILC and your hand drags with pain, small is bad it's horrible been there got the T shirt I wan't comfy. Even without a flash it's unbalanced. Whilst we are here the dumbed down grips on the E mount bodies are not impressive boxy and lacking the direct controls

It's like a time warp back to the late 60's and 70's ergo has gone out the window design has taken a back seat. Personally I think the launch price of the new camera is barmy but that's my take

That's it for now

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby mikeriach » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:31 pm

Barry,

Pretty much on the nail there.
I want a reasonable sized body with a good grip, not a minature with no "chunk" to get hold of. My main lens is a 70-400G and of course I'd need some fangled converter thingy which only works with SSM lenses, what a PITA that is, half my kit won't work.
Reasonable/good battery staying power. I easily shoot 1000 frames in a day and need 2 batteries, with approx 50% capacity in the ILCs I'd need 4 (I don't care how small and compact they are, it's a PITA and yet more cost).
Imagine the A7RII internals in an A99 body and I'm all ears as they say.
Plug some of the yawning A mount lens gaps and I'm saving my pennies.
Then drop the price and I'm in the queue :D

I've not suffered the manufacturers inept customer service thankfully as nothing Sony has yet broken (frantically touching wood). Sigma did fail to correct the decentering on the 70-200 but they tried all sorts even sending back to Japan. It was improved but still evident.

I am thinking that there is more to come and SLT/ILC will merge once the on-sensor focus/meter is fully sorted and more widely available, who need a mirror :roll:

Mike
Only an A77II and Tamron 16-300 left sadly. Sony cannot supply what I want so rightly or wrongly I've branched out to someone who does and I'm very happy.

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby pakodominguez » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:32 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:Rant mode half off. My requirements would be
Don't need 42mp but do need M or S raw I don't want to waste time ploughing through 42mp raw files for wedding shoots (I just need nowhere near that resolution)

The A7S is definitely better suited for event photography -I'm using it for the past 3 months and I'm quite happy with the results.
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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:40 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:My dream would be a 100% China company with a system top to bottom they'd charge half the price you'd get maybe 90% of the quality (maybe a few bits needing some work) and happy days all round. I'd dump my entire inventory on such a company.


Maybe someday you can buy it. I am reminded of the old Chinese curse though:

May you get all you wish for.

China 'seizes 40-year-old meat

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-33254123

"It was smelly and I nearly threw up when I opened the door," an official from Hunan province, where 800 tonnes were seized, told the AFP news agency.

Poor standards have made food safety a major concern in China.

According to state newspaper the China Daily, officials from Guangxi, a southern region bordering Vietnam, found meat dating back to the 1970s.


I suggest you do some research to find out more about Chinese food quality over the years. :)

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:42 pm

bakubo wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:My dream would be a 100% China company with a system top to bottom they'd charge half the price you'd get maybe 90% of the quality (maybe a few bits needing some work) and happy days all round. I'd dump my entire inventory on such a company.


Maybe someday you can buy it. I am reminded of the old Chinese curse though:

May you get all you wish for.

China 'seizes 40-year-old meat

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-33254123

"It was smelly and I nearly threw up when I opened the door," an official from Hunan province, where 800 tonnes were seized, told the AFP news agency.

Poor standards have made food safety a major concern in China.

According to state newspaper the China Daily, officials from Guangxi, a southern region bordering Vietnam, found meat dating back to the 1970s.


I suggest you do some research to find out more about Chinese food quality over the years. :)

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bakubo
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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:45 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:My dream would be a 100% China company with a system top to bottom they'd charge half the price you'd get maybe 90% of the quality (maybe a few bits needing some work) and happy days all round. I'd dump my entire inventory on such a company.


Maybe someday you can buy it. I am reminded of the old Chinese curse though:

May you get all you wish for.

You can get your meat from China now. Why wait? :lol:

China 'seizes 40-year-old meat

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-33254123

"It was smelly and I nearly threw up when I opened the door," an official from Hunan province, where 800 tonnes were seized, told the AFP news agency.

Poor standards have made food safety a major concern in China.

According to state newspaper the China Daily, officials from Guangxi, a southern region bordering Vietnam, found meat dating back to the 1970s.


I suggest you do some research to find out more about Chinese food quality over the years. :)

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:31 pm

I can't comment on dodgy meat from China but I can comment on their electronics and they're really upped their game in recent years. Yes there are some junky products out there but they have also got some good ones too. Let's not forget Apple's genius marketing yet their products are made by Foxconn a company that has a dubious track record with employees but people still buy Apple stuff.

Most of the makers I've dealt with (and I've dealt with a lot) have been very good they are focussed and they want to hear feedback, some don't but that's up to them good companies want feedback on how to improve their product. They are very polite not ignorant like the other camera makers. I would welcome a 100% China camera product/system with open arms. I think we've been taken for a ride for too long on prices and in some cases quality.

Anyway back on track ILC's are going to have to get bigger and with better ergo to attract me and they will have to be priced more competitively and be able to AF with screw driven lenses with a much smaller less costly adapter. I might sit up then and take more notice. No doubt Canon users will have a look I'm quite happy if Sony upset the main 2 makers maybe they will put more effort in. I have to say though I'm still seeing a massive no of people with Canikon around their necks not much Sony wise.

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Re: Post about the A7R II up now

Unread postby the_hefay » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:11 am

Sorry, but I don't want to see an entire 100% camera system from China. They can't even make vice-grips properly. Vice-grips have had two major flaws since being made in China and not in the USA. I know, because my boss purchased 80 new vice-grips of various sizes and styles shortly after the move to China and every one was flawed in the exact same two ways and needed fixed. My opinion is that if they can't make a vice-grip correctly, which pattern is fairly simple and has been in existence for years and years, then they can't make a camera system that would be better than the competition. It simply is not possible.
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