An Interesting Dilema For The Future

For discussion of the E and FE mount mirrorless system
peterottaway
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An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by peterottaway »

I have the A mount 70-400 lens which I use mainly on one of my A77 cameras when I need to go longer. I was considering buying an A6300 if there is no higher end A mount APS camera in the offering.

But now things have got somewhat muddled for me. Now I could buy the new E mount 70-300 zoom lens and still get an A6300 plus occasionally using the 70-400, or is the RX10 III going to be the camera for me ?

Since buying the original A7r and RX10, I have become far less tolerant of all things big. bulky and heavy. The A6300 especially with a third party battery pack would be a flexible option. But given that I have the A7r and A7r II as my main cameras, then that is not really a big issue. The E mount 70-300 zoom would do well on the A7 cameras as the A6300 and the A7r II definitely has decent APS performance as well.

I have generally been pleased with the performance of the RX10 especially at the lower EI range. And if the improvements suggested in the sensor and AF are really there, then the RX10 III would make for a decent lightweight kit by itself with the extra lens reach. So if I buy the RX10 III then it's goodbye to all my APS cameras and lenses except perhaps my 16-50 / 2.8 zoom.

Sight unseen on the new camera and lenses, my first thoughts are to buy the RX10 III and then wait and see if I need the new 70-300 FE lens.
classiccameras
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by classiccameras »

Wow, Peter, that is one dilemma. I'm at a stage where the 'feeding' (lens availability) of a camera body with value for money lenses is more important than the body. Although I have the older A6000, which is a great body, E lens support is abysmal. If you look at this from a different perspective, as great as these latest Sony Cameras are, Nikon and Canon have their lens support sorted big time, even the M4T has a better selection of good performing lenses from both Olympus and Panasonic. Yes, Canikon APS-C and FF don't solve the size/weight issues, but after using a borrowed Sony E mount 18-200 on my A6000, hand holding and balance was awkward in the field and it felt heavy. I was far happier with my old A mount bodies for this aspect of photography. So currently my A6000 ownership hangs in the balance, no IBIS makes the A mount lenses using an adapter to E mount less attractive but still usabale, let us know what you end up doing.
peterottaway
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by peterottaway »

Being an old school SLR type I think I might be having problems with the notion that a whole raft of traditional camera gear can be replaced by a single fixed lens camera.Even after having had the RX10 for some time. Probably possible in that I am definitely a low EI type of photographer. But I will be definitely be at the front of the cue to try out the RX10 III when it becomes available locally.

With the effort that Sony has been putting into the 1 inch sensor cameras, it seems that this makes me just one of a growing demographic in camera buyers. The young update their iPhone and us more mature types are downsizing.
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by classiccameras »

Likewise, I was always a Canon man right from the 35mm days and my last Canon was a 550D before I switched to Sony SLT. In some ways I regret that move but came to like how the Sony A57 performed and the A mount lenses were not bad plus of course the legacy Minolta options. I remember talking to Barry about an all in one option as the way to go and the RX10 was mentioned as a possibility. (John Lewis are selling off old RX10 Mk 1 for £425 which is tempting) I haven't looked closely at the differences between the RX10 models, what improvements are there on the 2 and 3 over the 1?

I suspect that an all in-one bridge camera will serve most requirements but its not going to be the panacea for DSLR replacement in all areas. However, it really does solve that heavy DSLR body and a bag full of lenses problem. This is one reason why M4T has become so popular, although I'm not a big fan of that format.
I recently had a chance to see my pals Jpegs from the new Canon EOS M-3/STM kit lens and I have to say the picture quality and colours on his landscapes were in my opinion very impressive and dare I say it better than Sony. Sony has still not sorted the Jpeg IQ/and user noise control although it is better on the A6000. I know, use RAW, but I don't have the time or the inclination when really good Jpegs can be had these days from some other cameras. Yes, the Sony 1 inch sensor development is way ahead of the competition but the same sensor I'm sure is used on other cameras as Sony seem to be supplying the whole trade these days with sensors, Nikon and Pentax and now Olympus being the known ones.

I would like your opinion on the RX10 as it got blinding reviews.
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bakubo
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by bakubo »

I think the RX10III might be an excellent choice for you, but just a couple of possible gotchas:

1. As you know, the RX10 series are not exactly small. It has a wide ranging lens, but you can never go small with the camera. Even if all you need is the 24-50mm range you still have to carry the rest too. One of the things I like about my m4/3 is that when I want small I just attach one of my small lenses, take off the modular grip, and I have a small/light kit. When I want bigger I put the grip back on, use one or more somewhat larger lenses, and I am good to go. Also, I can mount relatively fast lenses (my fastest is f1.7, but they get as fast as f1.2 for AF or f0.95 for MF). So, having said all of that, if I was to get an RX10III then I would also add something like an RX100III or RX100IV to have something small (and with a faster lens) for when I didn't want to carry the big RX10III.

2. The electronic zoom on the RX10 is very leisurely so I don't like it. The Panasonic FZ10000 has a much faster electronic zoom. How is the RX10III? Is it still very slow to zoom? Of course, for you this might not matter at all.
classiccameras
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by classiccameras »

Thanks, I have checked out and played with both cameras, the Panny FZ1000 is even bigger than the RX10 and just as heavy, although they both have some great features for an all in one camera, What M4T do you use, I have always preferred APS-C over 4thirds, but Micro might be the way to go because of the lens choices for a travel camera.

I can get some really good glass for the A6000, I already have the Sigma 30 N which is great, but a zoom for my wondering around landscapes is far more useful, Sigma & Tamron namely the 17-50, and I will have OS as a bonus. It really gets me when Sony bring out a star as in the A6000 but then your left high and dry with some very expensive lenses or pretty poor kit lenses. Sigma might be the lens to rescue my system.
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pakodominguez
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by pakodominguez »

peterottaway wrote:Since buying the original A7r and RX10, I have become far less tolerant of all things big. bulky and heavy. The A6300 especially with a third party battery pack would be a flexible option. But given that I have the A7r and A7r II as my main cameras, then that is not really a big issue. The E mount 70-300 zoom would do well on the A7 cameras as the A6300 and the A7r II definitely has decent APS performance as well.
It seems you have a lot of cameras, do you need a new one?
peterottaway wrote:I have generally been pleased with the performance of the RX10 especially at the lower EI range. And if the improvements suggested in the sensor and AF are really there, then the RX10 III would make for a decent lightweight kit by itself with the extra lens reach. So if I buy the RX10 III then it's goodbye to all my APS cameras and lenses except perhaps my 16-50 / 2.8 zoom.
that makes sense: you already use the RX10 and you know what this model can deliver, the RX10 III give you more reach, and probably better AF, video, etc. Keeping FF A7R/II, good lenses and adding the RX10 III will allow you to actually reduce the amount of unnecessary equipment (that I bet you are not using much lately) you have.

You just need to decide if the RX10 III focus as fast as you need at the tele-end of the lens, or if you "need" faster or more accurate AF, in that case, your 70-400 + adapter or the new 70-300 will become your best friends (again)
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peterottaway
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by peterottaway »

I have pared down the number of cameras to the Nikon D750, the Sony RX10 plus the A7r and A7r II. So basically to two kits depending on what I am doing. My chief "problem" is over the years I have accumulated a lot off glass that I have been reluctant to part with, but I know it would be sensible to reduce as some are getting little use. And others are sitting there just in case the newer ones are stolen or damaged.

A few years ago I lost a lens to a hockey ball that flew out of control from a clash of sticks and given the damage to the lens it would not have done my face much good either. But I replaced the lens rather than falling back on using older lenses so there is quite a bit of stuff to dispose of even if I don't go with an all in one.

Yes I still have the A77 bodies but these only come out for special jobs and are likely to go sometime soon.
classiccameras
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by classiccameras »

You know the old saying, if you have a piece of kit, whether it be photographic or some thing else and you haven't used it for over 12 Months, You don't need it!!
Its interesting to note the number of Sony 7R 1, 2 and 3 models on the second hand market, WEX photographic have a whole page of them. I asked WEX what was all that about and they said people had chopped them in either to another system or moved to CSC with a more extensive lens choice.

Always keep the best and most 'useful' glass you have and keep the body/s they fit. Its easy to get into the "What if " or "Just in case" syndrome when it comes to equipment. I know, its hard to let go, but I suspect that most if not all of my photography can be achieved using 2 systems, a high end compact and one interchangeable lens system, I really don't see the justification for more than that. I survived for years just using my Oly E-510 and a couple of high end Oly zooms, 14-54 and 40-150 till the shoulders started to complain.
I think the current Sony A mount bodies are too large for me, I still have my Sony A37 which is pretty small as DSLR's go, but its only being kept for my old Minolta lenses which are screw focus. I still use them at vintage car rallies and landscapes.
So re appraise and consolidate, which is exactly what I'm in the process of at the moment.
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pakodominguez
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by pakodominguez »

peterottaway wrote: My chief "problem" is over the years I have accumulated a lot off glass that I have been reluctant to part with, but I know it would be sensible to reduce as some are getting little use. And others are sitting there just in case the newer ones are stolen or damaged.
"Good glass" is not a problem, with the E mount system and the right adapter, they are fine. The problem is with lenses that are not really that good...
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pakodominguez
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by pakodominguez »

classiccameras wrote:Its interesting to note the number of Sony 7R 1, 2 and 3 models on the second hand market, WEX photographic have a whole page of them. I asked WEX what was all that about and they said people had chopped them in either to another system or moved to CSC with a more extensive lens choice.
If you can now see more Sony cameras on the second hand market, is most probably because Sony is selling more cameras with the A7x models than before., not because people are "leaving the system" Remember that a digital camera body loose value quite quickly, and Sony is coming with a new model every year or so, so better to sell your camera at 60% retail and buy a new one, that keeping it for another year and then selling it for 25% retail price.

That is what I did for a while, now I'm just skipping this generation of bodies, I don't really need the A7 Mark II cameras (but most probably jumping on the Mark III models)
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bfitzgerald
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I still have my 5d's :D
I like the idea of bridge cameras, but back in 35mm days you could get them (good ones) for a similar price to a 35mm SLR and basic lens.
For that reason I went for one, though I regret it longer term starting off it was a solid move.

The problem with the Sony RX's is every new model gets a big price ramp. £1200 for the III that's comical IMO for a 1" sensor camera.
Unless you shoot 4k or can't bear the thought of changing lenses I am not sure I see the point.
peterottaway
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Re: An Interesting Dilema For The Future

Unread post by peterottaway »

Different preferences,different solutions. Now I don't often go over 300mm let alone 600mm so it's a matter of choice, and I can't justify upgrading to say a Series 11 70 - 400 mm A mount or any FE similar lens that may become available. The quality of the Sony 1 inch sensor is acceptable to me especially at low EI levels. And so the RX10 is a convenient one camera solution to me in many circumstances where I may be taking a broad range of subjects.

Also I do live in an environment with salt lakes, dust storms and anabatic winds so field changing of lenses needs to be kept to a minimum. Of course that is mostly later Spring, Summer and early Autumn, in winter it's winds from Antarctica sweeping in from the Southern Ocean that can aldiborontiphosciphornicate up your day. Far cheaper and much lighter in weight than having to carry one camera per lens in your kit.

Whether Sony is milking its prices on the various RX 10 models is a matter between Sonys CFO and what the market is willing to pay. To me if it's less price than a decent 100-400. 200-400 or 70-400 zoom then it may be an acceptable price to pay. I will see, as an early comment says that it can struggle with AF at 600 mm. But just as likely to be somewhere near infinity and manual focus would be an acceptable trade off instead of a much heavier lens with or without an industrial grade tripod.
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