Corel bought out Bibble

[jcoffin]

Although it hasn't been published particularly widely, it appears that Corel recently bought out Bibble Labs.

Corel have just announced a new product, AfterShot Pro, which appears to be based fairly closely on Bibble.

For any who haven't used it, this is (at least intended to be) a direct competitor against products like Aperture, LightRoom, DxO optics Pro, Capture 1 Pro, etc.

I'll probably report back about the new product sometime soon, but can't comment intelligently about it yet.

[DrScottNicol]

FWIW, I got an email today informing me I'm eligible for a free upgrade to Aftershot - I'm not a big bibble user but I bought the lite version last November because my ageing laptop couldn't handle lightroom and i needed a portable a77 raw processor. The only downside is I have to phone corel to get the new code. As such, I'll give it a go too.

[bakubo]

I heard that Corel bought Bibble last week. Bibble and this new AfterShot Pro are available for Windows, Mac, and Linux. That is good news that they, at least for now, will continue Linux support. I wonder if they will put Paint Shop Pro on Linux? I think it is still Windows only. The main problem with Linux for use by photographers is the lack of good photo related software. I looked at all the stuff a couple of years ago and it was just not up to the level of what you can get for Windows/Mac. These days I mostly use PSE 9, but also have PSP X. I can't say that one is definitively better than the other though. PSP X has more features, but I like ACR so I usually use PSE. For Linux users having PSP and AfterShot would be a good step forward.

[bakubo]

I just spent a few minutes looking at the info on the Corel site about AfterShot Pro. Looks pretty impressive. Has anyone used it (or the software when it was sold by Bibble)? I assume it is similar to the latest Bibble 5.*. I have often considered Lightroom, but there are some things about it I am not so keen on. I really like the Lightroom ability to do non-destructive edits that are saved so they can be changed, reapplied, etc. and the info is saved with the image (a sidecar xml file, I suppose?). I saw a video clip that Reichmann at LL had recently that showed him using LR and he highlighted this ability. I didn't realize before that LR could do that. ACR can save minimal info, but I still need to use PSE to do more work and that sequence of edits are not saved and can't be easily reproduced in the future. It appears that AfterShot Pro can do this also based on what I see on the website. Not clear if it is the same thing as what I saw with LR though. AfterShot Pro doesn't force you into a photo management system like LR does (you can use it or not use it) so I like that too. Maybe later I will try the trial download. Anyone who has used it have any comments?

[jcoffin]

I've used Bibble for quite a while. Yes, you can do non-destructive editing (even with layers). Their layers aren't easy to understand at first, but work well once you're accustomed to them (i.e., they emphasized easy of use over ease of learning). Yes, the edits are stored in a sidecar file (or, I believe, the database if you use cataloging).

I should add that while it's clearly based on Bibble, and is similar, there are some pretty clear differences as well -- one I've already noticed is that the color management has changed. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's definitely not the same.

One other point that's probably worth mentioning is how well it works across a wide range of hardware -- it works reasonably well even on a minimal netbook, but still takes advantage of higher-end hardware so (for example) it speeds up almost linearly with the number of cores available.

[InTheSky]

I have use Bibble a moment also. Before lightroom 3.x, Bibble was clearly the winner to get better high ISO noise manageable.

I'm agree also on the performance, In fact the way lightroom handle now the fast preview is really feeling copy of Bibble algorithm. Bibble on my work laptop was working very well when I was on Linux (Ubuntu).

The layer is something clearly missing on LR 3.x I was really expecting seeing it after using Bibble. And also Bibble support a large variety of plug ins easy to install (a lot free, and other not so expensive).

I'm impress by Corel still there on the market, I should give them a second chance an try the software. It is good to support Canadian software company .

Regards,

Frank

[bakubo]

Thanks to everyone for all the info. Sounds pretty good. I saw that Bibble 5.* does automatic lens distortion corrections (maybe similar to PTLens, which I currently use). The lens database on the Bibble website is missing almost all the lenses I use, but they are in PTLens. I didn't see any mention of automatic lens distortion corrections in AfterShot Pro, but I suppose they are still there and weren't removed.

I'm impress by Corel still there on the market, I should give them a second chance an try the software. It is good to support Canadian software company .

I recall that JASC (the company that developed PSP) was also a Canadian company. Corel bought them a few years ago too. I didn't realize that Corel was also a Canadian company. By the way, Bibble is a company in my hometown: Austin, Texas.

[InTheSky]

In 2000, I was working for Nortel and I had to go often in Ottawa where the other "el" company was Corel .

The hokey stadium in Kanata in Ottawa is the Corel Center. But like Montreal, they have a poor Hockey team now ...

Frank

[twm47099]

I was disappointed when Adobe released LR 4 Beta that it only works on Vista and later OS. My main photo processing systems are both XP, and I'm not ready to upgrade and reinstall all my software/hardware or buy a 3rd desktop system. I do have a netbook with Win 7, but it's slow enough, that I might grow too old by the time it processes a couple of large images.

One reason I was interested in LR4 was based on some comparisons on DYXUM of high ISO shots processed with the raw engine from LR2 vs the new one in LR4 -- essentially much less noise while still retaining fine detail (although the change in exposure adjusting controls doesn't impress me.) See the post by dekie in the link below.

http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/lightroom-4 ... page3.html

So, since I found out (from your posts above) that Bibble, and I assume Aftershot, has non-destructive processing (and layers), I am considering transitioning to Aftershot. Could some Bibble users comment on how well it processes Sony raws, particularly controlling noise while maintaining detail in high ISO and how it compares in that to LR3 (if you've used both).

thanks
tom

[Dusty]

Tom,

Just d/l the trial and see for yourself. I tried it a bit, but never used any of the advanced features, and never had to rescue a badly done or high ISO photo, so I can't give you a real appraisal.

Dusty

[InTheSky]

...
So, since I found out (from your posts above) that Bibble, and I assume Aftershot, has non-destructive processing (and layers), I am considering transitioning to Aftershot. Could some Bibble users comment on how well it processes Sony raws, particularly controlling noise while maintaining detail in high ISO and how it compares in that to LR3 (if you've used both).
thanks
tom

When Bibble 5.0 was there a long time ago, I had done test at High ISO and It was way better than LR2.x, but since the LR3.x Adobe to my taste is touch better than Bibble.

Bibble (or aftershot) at almost third the price of LR, you can considere it as a very good software.

But Many thanks ! I didn't know that the LR 4.0 Beta was available, and so far It looks that my Old and trusty A900 will have a second life in High ISO (and again reward me to take any picture since the beginning in RAW not JPEG ).

Frank

[UrsaMajor]

One reason I was interested in LR4 was based on some comparisons on DYXUM of high ISO shots processed with the raw engine from LR2 vs the new one in LR4 -- essentially much less noise while still retaining fine detail (although the change in exposure adjusting controls doesn't impress me.)

Take a look at Lightroom 3. That is where the dramatic improvement in processing was made, IMO, and LR3 runs fine on XP. I admit that it looks as if there are also some nice improvements between LR3 and LR4, but I don't think that these are in the area in which you seem to be most concerned.

Personally, I am also debating what to do, as my computer runs on XP and I have no other reason to move to Windows 7 at this time - although I also see no compelling reason to prefer Bibble over Lightroom, so switching is not attractive to me at this time.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[bakubo]

I downloaded the ASP trial a few days ago and I am evaluating it. I am mostly interested in the non-destructive editing with a full record of what was done so that I can easily reproduce the results again, especially when I want a web-size version and then later want another size, maybe for a print.

By the way, at least for me it is important in Preferences|Display to select Show only high quality previews because if it is not selected I get a shimmer of the preview when I make adjustments with the slider.

One thing I like about ASP is that you have the choice of using either the photo asset management database (which looks good) or you can work on your files as they exist in folders on your hd. I keep all my originals in folders named with the year and month going back about 12 years. I keep the most recent couple of years of folders on my computer's hd and keep all of the folders backed up to three 1tb external hds. The thing that isn't clear and that I want to find out is if ASP will save all the editing steps in an XMP sidecar file the same as ACR does. If it does then that sidecar file would be saved on all 3 external hds when I backup and then if I used ASP to open an old photo in a folder on an external hd ASP would automatically read the XMP file so that I could immediately get all the adjustments/corrections that I made before. It wouldn't matter which of the external hds I used since all 3 have the same backed up files.

When using file system mode it only shows the current adjustments you are making in the history window so if you exit ASP and restart it and then open the file you worked on previously the photo will have all the adjustments you did to it, but when you open the history window it is empty. That isn't such a big deal in some ways since all the adjustments you made are reflected in the image and all of the adjustments are shown in the various slider positions, etc. so clearly it does remember them, but they just aren't shown in the history window -- maybe this is just a minor oversight/bug. I need to think on this a bit more to see if this is important or not, but it is annoying. I created a small catalog (db) and when using that it does remembers all the previous adjustments and they are shown in the history window. If the db can handle my situation with the 3 copies of the same files on external hds and copies of only the most recent 2 years on my computer's hd then I would be fine with the db since you do gain some nice advantages (searching for photos based on keywords, etc.). I need to investigate this though. I suspect that it can't handle this situation well though. We'll see.

By the way, this post about ASP from someone who knows Aperture and Lightroom got me to spend a bit more time looking at ASP:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=40341639

[bakubo]

When using file system mode it only shows the current adjustments you are making in the history window so if you exit ASP and restart it and then open the file you worked on previously the photo will have all the adjustments you did to it, but when you open the history window it is empty. That isn't such a big deal in some ways since all the adjustments you made are reflected in the image and all of the adjustments are shown in the various slider positions, etc. so clearly it does remember them, but they just aren't shown in the history window -- maybe this is just a minor oversight/bug. I need to think on this a bit more to see if this is important or not, but it is annoying. I created a small catalog (db) and when using that it does remembers all the previous adjustments and they are shown in the history window.

Correction: I checked again and when using the catalog/db it behaves the same as it does when in file system mode. In either case all the changes are saved and when you restart ASP and open an image you worked on before all the changes are shown on it and all the sliders/options reflect what you had previously chosen. The history window is empty though in both cases. The history window only shows the sequence of operations that you have currently performed during this session. That seems to be intentional and isn't really an issue, I think. I don't know how LR handles this situation or if it even has something analogous in the operation. I have never tried LR because it forces you to use the catalog/db. Anyway, I am still exploring ASP and will report back as I find things.

[David Kilpatrick]

Even PS clears its history when you save a file. That's because History States are actually a memory or disk cache like a snapshot, and when you close the image, the cache/disk is freed up.

ACR does not record 'history', but each tool retains its data. So if you export a file from ACR or click 'done' and close the ACR window, if you have applied multiple grads and dodges and other things like spot removal, all the 'pins' locating the controls are remembered, and you can get back to them when you re-open the file and select them. You can have hundreds of adjustments remembered. They are not a 'history' state record, as they may be serial in creation, but are parallel in implementation; they are all 'actioned' during the final save or open in PS export operation.

C1 Pro and Nikon NX2 work the same way. Bibble I never liked because of the tartan striping on Sony files.

David