Photoshop moves to the cloud

From RAW conversion to image editing and printing
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Dusty
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Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby Dusty » Tue May 07, 2013 2:37 pm

For you Photoshop users, get ready to pay every month for the right to use it.

http://www.eweek.com/developer/adobe-creative-cloud-move-elevates-company.-stymies-users

Hopefully this will drive the competition, since there are few who want to pay $50/month to use software, have it stop working because they forgot to log on and make a payment, and keep paying for "innovations" they have no need for, or updated camera models they don't have.

The installed base needs to oppose this or others will be doing it too, and soon you won't be able to use a computer that's not connected to the 'net.

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Greg Beetham
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Thu May 09, 2013 4:41 am

Exactly Dusty I was going to say is Photoshop on cloud 9 or cloud zero? :roll:
The new Adobe cloud deal has stirred up a hornets nest, not many seem to like the software rental idea, it doesn’t bother me as I have no intention of paying such a ridiculous price for a pile of 1’s and 0’s anyway whether it’s on a disk or not, I use Elements and I have used Corel (big and good and not overly expensive, but steep learning curve).

I would only buy a program if it’s on a disk simply because of the unreliability of computer components, if you lose C: for example you then have to re-install all your programs, a much more straightforward procedure if you have all the necessary disks but may be problematic if you obtained some or all of your software from the cloud. You would have to re-establish your previous id and authentication etc. with essentially a different computer and meanwhile you have zero functionality that you have paid for or are paying for along with all the wasted bandwidth.

I have already had experience with how stupid Adobe’s install routine is, I was accused of loading Elements on too many computers (the install wouldn’t install or the program wouldn’t work forget now) and I was left with no photo editing program until I contacted them and let off a bit of steam.

My computer had possibly been zapped by a line surge (lightning maybe) and various components had failed successively (power supply, memory module, graphics card and finally a hard disk) and the computer shop said my main board had swollen capacitors and would need replacing soon. So after the last failure (hard disk) I replaced the main board as well (and bought a large UPS also).

The point? The point is the extra aggravation provided by Adobe whose dopey install couldn’t identify itself already on the computer (during the first three or four re-installs) and perform a ‘repair install’ it proclaimed that there was already a copy of Elements on the computer and that must be un-installed first before installing the new copy.
What it neglected to say was the previous installation needed to be de-activated so the new installation wouldn’t be regarded as a separate install…huh? Brilliant how would you de-activate a previous install that no longer runs anyway?

But at least I had the disk (and the serial number) so at some point I stood a chance of resolving the issue (communications and negotiations progressed reasonably well having previously learned to speak fluent moron)

I really wouldn’t like to go through the same routine dealing with the cloud where I obtained and downloaded $1000 worth of rental vaporware (and using a sizable chunk of my 5GB monthly download allowance in the process)
Thoughts?
Greg

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bakubo
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby bakubo » Thu May 09, 2013 6:31 am

For the moment it is PS, but eventually LR will probably end up the same. I have LR 4.4, PSE 9, and PS CS2. I will probably get LR 5 (or more likely wait until 5.1), but after that I am not sure. Darn, after starting to use LR a year ago I have 56k photos in there with star ratings, tags, and many of them have been worked on so all of that info is in the catalog too. There are lots of good programs out there, but Adobe does seem to be quite good at coming up with just that little bit extra that makes people want to use them. :lol: There are lots of other Windows/Mac programs though that are quite good too. Many are less expensive too.

From time to time I have toyed with using Linux and if I didn't work on photos I probably would be using it already. I downloaded 2 or 3 distros in 2009 or 2010 and tried them on a laptop that I was no longer using. I remember that Linux Mint in particular was quite nice with very simple installation and everything worked (wifi, graphics, etc.) with no tinkering. The problem was that the Linux photo software all left a lot to be desired. I think things have improved on that front a lot but, of course, still not as good as what is on Windows/Mac. I have read that PS CS2 works with Wine and I think I recall reading not long ago that the current LR does too.
Last edited by bakubo on Thu May 09, 2013 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Birma
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby Birma » Thu May 09, 2013 6:59 am

I wonder if this is only for PS as this had such a high ticket price to start with. Perhaps they think that turning their s/w into a 'utility' will make more people think that they can afford it in easy monthly instalments. If I wanted PS (which I don't) then it would depend how the monthly payments compared to a one off price. I think in the professional design world there is only PS.

I have mixed feelings about the whole cloud approach. It does feel safer to have the physical media in your hand, so to speak, but there are times when it has been useful to have 'stuff' (music, s/w, files) just a download away whilst travelling. However, I think the people really trying to push cloud spend their days in the middle of big cities with great Wifi or 3G options. Try living off the cloud in a Travel Inn somewhere outside a town in North Lancashire (insert your own fav backwater here :) ).
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby NevHi » Thu May 09, 2013 10:54 am

Comments from two "TheRegister" articles. Acron is clearly an "unofficial" Adobe face.

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/user/57053/
http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/3 ... for_cloud/

Acron
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Acron
Posted in Users grumble after Adobe cancels Acrobat X Suite
Posted Thursday 18th October 2012 10:38 GMT
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OK, you asked...

I explained the situation as it currently stands on Adobe's forum (link in the article). Acrobat X Suite was launched at a time when access to the other products required purchase of each one at retail prices, so the bundle offered a discount for those who needed to work with specific types of documentation. It wasn't aimed at the target Acrobat customer, and the arrival of Creative Cloud means there's now a better option to get access to Photoshop, Media Encoder etc. as well as things like Illustrator and Bridge, which were never in AXS (though personally I think they should have been). Adobe wants people to migrate to Creative Cloud - I'm not saying if I agree, but it's how things are.

Acrobat X Pro (and Suite) customers on Windows who upgrade to Acrobat XI Pro get a free upgrade to LiveCycle Designer ES3, so in effect that product is still in the 'bundle', just not in the same download. Again, very few customers ever used it, so it makes sense to reduce the install footprint by slicing it off into a separate line item.

eLearning Suite is also not aimed at typical Acrobat users, it's for people who create courseware for deployment to SCORM systems. As such it includes specialist tools (Captivate and Presenter) that aren't in Creative Cloud, and other stuff Acrobat X Suite ever had. It's also available on subscription, but I don't see eLS as a 1:1 replacement for AXS. Yes, the product pages need changing to better explain all this.

Expect lots of downvotes, but you asked for an explanation so I'm giving you one.

Dave M

Posted in Adobe kills Creative Suite – all future features online only
Posted Tuesday 7th May 2013 10:15 GMT
Acron
Some clarifications

I'm not going near the question of Creative Cloud pricing, but I can dispel some myths:

1) The mandatory move to CC only affects those products we have in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now, and there are NO plans to change that.

2) Enterprise and educational licenses for CC will be available, in addition to the current personal and team plans. Rollout of CC to multiple machines will be a lot simpler than it seems, and you can run CC alongside any previous version of CS or point product with the sole exception of Acrobat.

3) CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. It will run offline for 60 days before deactivating, and there are plans to support users who may be offline for several months at a time. CC desktop apps do *not* run in the cloud so your files don't need to be uploaded for editing, nor is the computing done on the CC network (actually CC runs on Amazon's platform),. There are new features which do of course require a live Web connection (for example the ability to download and install any of the TypeKit fonts on demand, or publishing to Behance) but anything you can do now offline, you can still do offline with CC.

4) All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms but ensure you can work with legacy versions of file formats and plugins.

5) CC users have up to one year to apply each released update, so if you have a reason to hold off (for example waiting for a plugin to become compatible) that's fine.

6) If you stop paying the subscription then of course your software stops working. Any files you have stored in the Cloud above the free 2GB limit will need to be downloaded before they're erased, and bundled packages such as ProSite will be closed (unless you pay separately). The rules on expiry of font licenses are more complex, details will be posted on Adobe's website before launch.

7) Moving forward, the 'CC' brand is fixed. There won't be "CC2" next year, etc. - but each product retains its internal version numbering system so users (and plugins) can tell which build they're running.

8) There are no announcements about the enterprise product ranges (LiveCycle, Media Server, etc.) - you can assume they remain the same in terms of licensing.


Re: Whats missing...

> It just seems so obvious, I don't why Adobe haven't jumped on it.

Already did. We've been able to remote-control the tool and color mixer for a desktop instance of Photoshop using a network-linked iPad for a while now - visit photoshop.com and look at "Nav" and "Color Lava". I can't comment on timescales for Android support, but it's on the radar.
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bakubo
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby bakubo » Thu May 09, 2013 11:08 am

NevHi wrote:6) If you stop paying the subscription then of course your software stops working.


What about your PSD files on your hard disk? If the software stops working then you also can't open and use those PSD files.

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Greg Beetham
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Thu May 09, 2013 6:07 pm

Wow it’s not simmering down any, it seems to be getting worse if anything. I count seven threads on the dpr most active list about the Adobe rent deal and what alternatives there are to Photoshop, and some threads have already maxed out and disappeared.
And now there is a dpr run poll with some questions that might be pertinent to some people’s concerns, or not, hard to say on that but it seems to me they might have missed a question on the possible re-authentication issue after a computer meltdown, which to me is a real one.

Btw Microsoft went cloudy here on Windows 8, at least at one major outlet, I went looking for a later version of Word to replace the ancient version I had for use on the new computer (there comes a time when you reluctantly admit you can’t stand all the multitude of updates you have to download on the old version).

While I was there I checked out if there might have been a Win7 Ultimate going cheap, but no luck on that, all they had was Win8 stuff and Office and most of those were small boxes that just contained a serial number, yep you pays your money and get no disk just a leaflet with a serial number on it then you go join the cloud with your serial number.
I even had trouble finding a copy of Office with an actual disk in it, but luckily I did find one.

The appeal of the cloud to those who wish to possess technology rather than be possessed by it is captured well in the words of Dilbert’s boss’s secretary ‘I’d rather have a skunk stapled to my forehead’
Greg

Ps .PSD files are pretty much proprietary I think Henry, but Elements can open them of course, maybe Corel can open them, that program can open any file in the universe usually.

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bakubo
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby bakubo » Thu May 09, 2013 10:21 pm

A friend a few years ago bought a Kindle and was raving about it. About 1.5 years ago I decided to get one, but since then I have not bought a single ebook for it because I refuse to endorse a model where I pay for it, but Amazon won't allow me to give it away or sell it. They get my money and then want to have control forever on what I paid for. If that is the case then I want control of the money I sent them too forever. I will tell them what they can use the money for and what they can't use it for. I have downloaded lots of free ebooks and have read quite a few, but don't use the Kindle much anymore.

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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby NevHi » Thu May 09, 2013 11:24 pm

The real problem with the "cloud" in countries like NZ are Data Caps = $$$$ and download speeds.
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Greg Beetham
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Fri May 10, 2013 3:36 am

bakubo wrote:A friend a few years ago bought a Kindle and was raving about it. About 1.5 years ago I decided to get one, but since then I have not bought a single ebook for it because I refuse to endorse a model where I pay for it, but Amazon won't allow me to give it away or sell it. They get my money and then want to have control forever on what I paid for. If that is the case then I want control of the money I sent them too forever. I will tell them what they can use the money for and what they can't use it for I have downloaded lots of free ebooks and have read quite a few, but don't use the Kindle much anymore.


Ha ha :lol: I love that part (Itallics type)
Greg

Ps I agree with the Cap limits NevHi, I can only afford 5GB a month, broadband is too expensive here, after the limit is reached (I rarely do reach it actually) the speed drops down but at least they don't charge any more for going over.

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mvanrheenen
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby mvanrheenen » Fri May 10, 2013 6:37 am

As a system administrator specialised in application and data management I consider these "Software as a Service" (or SaaS) services as a means to reduce costs and complexity for enterprises. However, this depends solely on licensing, service level, legal and privacy agreements.

I work for a company which deals with vast amount of personal money and data from millions of people and corporations. Biggest concern for us with these cloud services gaining popularity is one basic question: " Where does my data go and who owns it?".

Local law states that the data we deal with has to be 100% ours. This means no data storage in countries that by any means can gain control over it. So much for 90% of the world, including the US and UK.

On a smaller scale, people who for example are one man business as a photographer, these kind of concerns are identical as far as I'm concerned. Who wants Adobe to have control over their livelyhood? I certainly don't!

Those concerns set aside, the application deployment end of these deals can be pretty beneficial.

To answer some of Gregs answers, I migrated to Windows 8 some time ago and bought an one month subscription to Office 365. The 'cloud' part of both products doesn't concerns the deployments. I still download or buy a disk with a setup which installs the product locally. I can use both products without ever using some form of cloud service. Office runs as long as you pay the periodical fee, even when used offline. The whole cloud concept for these products is centered around the idea Microsoft manages a few services, like data storage, migration of setting etc. for you when you WANT to use them. You can however choose to use none of these services at which time, you just run local software. So for people who are forced by restrictions to keep their bandwith or downloads in check, the software doesn't limit you. Maybe only the initial download will, although both products are sold retail on DVD as well.

I don't know much about the business end of the Adobe idea of what these cloud services could mean for your data and application deployment options, but one has to be very careful about how these solutions impact your business, wallet and especially your privacy.

Mark

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bakubo
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby bakubo » Fri May 10, 2013 8:28 am

I figured that Hitler would be ranting about this. :lol:

http://youtu.be/67Iw9q2X9cU

I still think his Nikon D3x rant from a few years ago is the best though:

http://youtu.be/tnwf2RShNV0

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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby mvanrheenen » Fri May 10, 2013 9:22 am

:lol:

You should hear the mad ravings about loss of the start menu button in Windows 8...

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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby bakubo » Fri May 10, 2013 9:37 am

mvanrheenen wrote:You should hear the mad ravings about loss of the start menu button in Windows 8...


I should have known there was one for that too. :lol:

Even though I have learned how to use the new Windows 8 interface since getting my current computer in December I can't say that I like it. I finally decided to download and install the free Classic Shell that gives you Win7, WinXP, or Win Classic type of interfaces. It has a Start button and boots directly to the desktop. It really does give you all the benefits of Win8 that are under the covers along with the better interface of previous Windows. So far, Classic Shell looks really nice.

http://www.classicshell.net/

Here is a rave review:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2026719/review-classic-shell-brings-the-start-menu-to-windows-8-for-free.html

Of course, the word is that Microsoft will be coming out with Win8.1 (or whatever name they decide on) and it will probably have things restored for people who want it.

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Birma
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Re: Photoshop moves to the cloud

Unread postby Birma » Fri May 10, 2013 10:29 am

bakubo wrote:I figured that Hitler would be ranting about this. :lol:

http://youtu.be/67Iw9q2X9cU

I still think his Nikon D3x rant from a few years ago is the best though:

http://youtu.be/tnwf2RShNV0


I thought I was bored of these .... but no, it got me again :D .

In the D3x rant I love the bit when he says "I should've stayed with film, like Stalin" :) .

I realise that OSs are very much down to personal taste but I think MS have lost it with Windows 8 and their attempt at a tablet interface. Very 'clunky' IMHO.
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