Latest rumour on Sonyalpharumors

This is only rated as SR3, but that was my gut feeling (Items 4/5) that Sony's A580 was going to be the last DSLR with OVF from that stable. That was the reason I purchased one although honestly I did not need it just at the moment. So if you are into FF this might be good news. I think there is something in 1-3 because of the agreement between CZ and Sony announced some time ago. If the SLT and NEX do well, and the signs are there, then I think that the Sony APS-C DSLR with OVF will soon become history.
I think that Sony and CZ are going to have a go at the FF prof. market. Note also additional G lenses (if the rumours are right). These will be lenses that can resolve a sensor with probably 32-36Mp.

SLT has no future above a few more years.

The Nex absolutely must have a great future, be it with Sony or with any other Nex-alike design from other manu's.

Based on that, those invested in DT-lens-based sys are better advised to leave... Is that a sane business strategy???

I can imagine DSLT morphing eventually into an a-mount NEX type camera when solutions to AF with main sensor are developed. I therefore don't see the a-mount or APS-C size sensors disappearing, so I don't quite see why you think the DT lenses day's are numbered?

I'd agree it's likely the last OVF APS-C A mount models to be made. (they might do one more maybe at best)
I expect Sony to do as above and abandon the A290/390 models replacing them with the A33 or something a bit cheaper (think lower res evf etc)
Sony won't ever be able to effectively compete in the FF/Pro market not for stills photography. They might do good products but there is heavy resistance to anything other than Canikon by users. (I'm not trying to be controversial just talking to people in the industry they are not interested in any other makers)

Barry, that's not true. I work in two field as you know - Photoworld, and MPA. I've been surprised by the number of wedding photographers moving over to Sony and specifically for the A900/850 and the CZ 24-70mm (the 16-35mm, 70-200mm etc may sell but it's the CZ 24-70mm which sells the idea. Not a huge number, but in every case photographers who would normally have opted for Nikon or Canon and in some cases switching from Nikon or Canon.

Whatever you think of Sony's impression on the market, this has not happened for any other make (possibly because no other make has attempted a full frame apart from Contax, and they had exactly the same effect for the same reason - CZ lenses, full frame). Not that we wish the fate of Contax on Sony.

My reviews have said that the EVF will either be a cu-de-sac, or a new direction. That depends on how they develop it. There are higher resolution, superior EVFs coming on line (driven by video development). They will judge the take-up of this model, but they have made one error by fitting GPS. GPS may be enough to tip buyers into choosing it *despite* the EVF - if the 580 had been fitted with GPS and the 55 with no GPS, guess which camera I would be using instead of the 55.

That is the one thing their sales figures will not help them assess - 'all things being equal' will people buy EVF instead of OVF? That is, if ALL the other features of two models are similar. It is not possible to extrapolate from Olympus and Panasonic experience, as their EVF ranges have never been 'equal' to DLSRs, always offering a size and weight benefit.

EVF brings with it others inequalities, the mirrorless action and quiet shutter. and the low-light finder image. Along with GPS these factors make us happy to own the A55 and A580 side by side.

David

Sorry David I disagree quite strongly. I've met many working in the industry and without question the vast majority are simply not even slightly interested in anything other than Canon or Nikon. They might be making some headway into some markets such as studio photography..anyone switching tends to be between those two makers

They simply don't have the right products for action/photojournalism/sports weddings again they don't really have the right product for that either (Nikon and Canon do). I'm in no way saying their offerings are anything other than good, but even Sony themselves are not really courting the pro market seriously.

Yes there are always a few/minority who are using another maker be it Olympus (less so nowadays), the odd Pentax one is rare and whilst I've seen some increased Sony presence it's not appearing in working photographers bags in my area. The other point is about support services for pros that's been mentioned to me as well.

It would take a long and very persistent effort to make any real progress in the pro market for Sony at least 5-10 years.

David, the EVF has been the one and only future direction since the inception of digital cameras. Sure there may still happen some hybrids, but the pure OVF sys is a living dinosaur. And I'd love to switch seamlessly between electronic and optical LV in my viewfinder.

And video cams could never drive the EVF development due to much lower res needed and due to much lower unit base and due to less stringent power/size limitations with (semi)professional video use, all that wrt the typical SLR VF use.

So now we may really expect some true and fast progress at EVF design as the current SLT/EVIL creates a mass market for cheap/good mass-production EVF design. There are no fundamental obstacles - only the tech/engineering development costs that could only be covered by mass-production.

Outside of internet forums the enthusiasm for electronic viewfinders is not as large as many suggest. Dinosaurs or not some will resist a move to EVF only products. Again the issue here is not objecting to EVF models being available (who can object to choice?) for those who want them, but the abandonment of optical viewfinders.

I think it is obvious that Sony will move to SLT's (for APS-C) and that they are not a niche product in the line-up.

I also reject the assumption that EVF is "the only way to go". I like choices so do most folks.

I just posted in another topic before seeing this one about Son'y mistake in not offering the same LCD and GPS in the 55 and 580.

And if the 580 is the last OVF APS-C, I'm not sure if I'll make the switch to FF or another make.

Dusty

The pragmatic question to ask you is by 2015, except for the second hand market where do you think you will be able to buy an OVF APS camera ? With top end pro spec lenses taking up to a year to manufacture and OVF of the sophistication of the A 900 being available there is no short term challenge to the OVF FF camera. But to me cameras such as the A55 are good enough at $750 rather than paying $1200 for a D7000 or $1600 for a K7 without a lot of thought.

In the days of film to produce an image you had a mechanical box attached to an optic which then went through a number of chemical reactions to produce an image. So to produce and present your image as anything meaningful in the early days required the photographer to have the vision of an artist and the skills of a master technician. Now in time improvements in design and production made the technical demands easier to manage but the basic concept remained.

For the immediate future something like a traditional optic will continue to be required even if the manufacturers can introduce more machine and less hand assembly. But with increasingly electronic digital cameras, the rest of production chain and many of the support industries that grew up have completely changed. And will keep changing for a while yet as the full implications are assessed and developing technology matures.

I have no desire to reduce any debate to a facile are you a robotic technocrat or an artist with a soul ? But I do think that those who are not comfortable with where things are leading us, take a step back and then with all the pragmatism possible make a decision where they are going.

And then go ahead and debate as passionately as they can for what they want.

For those who want and like a good OVF the answer is simple, don't buy a camera with an EVF. Same thing with video, if the camera that has video also has compromises to being a good DSLR by virtue of having video, don't buy it. Because if you do you are telling the camera manufacturers that you are happy with their offerings and are not concerned about the demise of the OVF.
Greg

Excellent and fair point Greg. I tell people all the time to vote with their wallets. In this day and age, money can do a heck of a lot more than people realize. If they only realized the power they have in their pocket.

I buy and sell a lot of cameras some for obvious reasons, and some for not such obvious reasons. But I believe wholeheartedly about voting with your wallet.

Another good way to get feedback to manufactures is through the return process. When you return the good to them, and tell them why you are returning it, its a much bigger vote for what you want than not buying at all.

Carl

Exactly! People vote with their wallets. Nex has been the most successful camera that Sony has ever launched (p&s and DSLRs combined) , and A55 is only behind Nex. People have voted with their wallets. It's Nex and A55.

I guess this debate has settled.

Thoughtful debate and interesting points being made. I personally think that Sony are moving closer to brandishing their USPs (unique selling propositions) v. competition. Their sensors, electronics such as EVF and video knowledge, SLT and Zeiss lenses for FF. There is no point in trying to beat competition at their own game. Create your own. That is why I think that CAN/NIK need to watch especially Sony and Panasonic (and maybe Samsung) more than each other looking forward a few years. On the FF side I am convinced Sony will continue in the FF sector with Zeiss and G lenses. As David pointed out the A900 with particular CZ 24-70 is a strong offering in the wedding market. It will be interesting to see the 2010 sales figures when available early next year. I have no doubt that NEX and SLT will figure strongly and encourage Sony to motor on there. With regards to OVF they have less chance of reaching a domineering position over CAN/NIK and they will calculate that future generations will take to EVF and SLT with love and affection. So there you have it. Pursue your strengths and market them effectively.

I just think Sony did a D40 on the market, twice actually, once with the NEX and again with the DSLT, it remains to be seen just how much depth there is in that particular market segment, (so far they didn't have any in mine). I'll be watching with interest when the next generation of NEX's and DSLT's hit the market.
Greg