They have both now. A560/580 and A33/55


Seems to me Sony has more choice than any other manufacturer, if choice is what you're looking for. Canikon only have Mirror types and no body stabilized cameras and no mirrorless. or even cameras that can focus in video.

Sony has all those things as well. and even inlens stabilisation on some models . all bodys have focus motors too.

Well if you have given up on Sony Barry why bother to keep commenting on them, it is the same thing time after time, in a few words, “Why doesn’t Sony make a camera for me”. We have all heard it many times now, you have chosen like I did to change my brand.
I would not want or dare to criticise Pentax on the “Pentaxuser” forum, the Moderator would take it off almost immediately.
No cameras are perfect for my or many peoples use but for me Sony at the moment suit my requirements, If in the future they do not I have the opportunity to change, no one is “chaining me to the brand” and another thing it does not worry me if I use a camera with a Micky Mouse badge on the front if it does what I want I will use it.
Regards
Richard

Excatly.

http://www.photoclubpentax.com

Geeze.....

Quite right Barry. You have now begun to invest in Pentax and that is probably the best decision for you. £ for £ (or Euro for Euro) Pentax is probably a good choice v. CaNikon. You have no investment in Sony cameras (A200 gift). Sell your Minolta stuff (what you don't need for film) and use the proceeds to expand your Pentax portfolio. You will simply have to resign yourself to the fact that (possibly execpt Sony's next FF) they are on to SLT and NEX from now on. Simple.
Sony are doing the right thing for them. They will never succeed with "me too" stuff. They have tried with OVF along traditional lines and also introduced class leading LV and really got nowhere fast. The SLT and NEX units are selling and Sony are right to play to their strengths. The young generation will take to the SLT and NEX cameras. Tech. light weight and smart. Even I have fallen for NEX (hopefully Sony will sort my 16mm pancake). The NEX-5 is light and my A580 is great. (So are my other Sony OVF cameras).
Go have an Irish whiskey and enjoy your Pentax. Your complaints (and a few other complainants as the Sony chap referred to) will not change the game now.

I think Sony isn't looking at the whole picture. SLT owners who are not DSLR users are going to get a super P&S camera with an additional viewfinder they can stick their eye up to.

Sony would have been better off sticking an 18-250 zoom permanently on the front and made it a bridge camera.

DSLR users tend to be 'system' guys. They invest in additional bodies, more lenses, flashes and other accessories. If you give a guy a single camera that can do everything, he has no need of another, or more components. The enthusiast or pro will need more lenses, flashes, and spare bodies, as well as new bodies that offer higher resolution or better high ISO.

Sony may have a winner that wins the battle but loses the war, if it erodes people buying into the system, and causes existing system DSLR users to look elsewhere.

I'm nowhere near the end of buying DSLRs, but if the 580 it Sony's last OVF APS-C, I may need to switch brands as well. Maybe I'll be able to buy the new FF OVF models, if they're not too expensive, because for the most part I haven't made a lot of investment in APS only glass. That will change when I buy the Siggy 8-16! I want to use that on the 580, and on the 750, but if there is no 750, I may need to re-think quite a bit of things.

Sony has plenty of opportunity to be a consumer electronics powerhouse in the camera field, but being a camera company is something different. They can be both, but I don't think they have the foresight to do so.

Dusty

If EVF's are the end of the world, why aren't we looking at images that are upside down and backwards on our cameras? Simple, evolution.

While desperately trying to hang on to tradition, because they want to appear as "real photographers" many folks fail to realize that EFV's may actually be a better tool for us as photographers.

I've used EFV cameras in the past, and I've had zero trouble with them. I really like the experience of using the OVF in the A55 when I handled it in the camera store. I love the viewfinder in my A900, but just like everyone of you, I've chimped away at the screen on the back of the camera to see what my results were after taking a shot. This isn't necessary with EFV.

It's been stated on here many, many times that in many, many situations EVF is superior to OVF. Yes, there were have been a few documented bugs under specific shooting conditions where the EVF "fails" (studio flash photography comes to mind). In my mind, the ovf vs the EVF is a red herring. The arguments for OVF right now are not "real" complaints they are simply resistance to new technology. If you look at 95% of the point and shoot cameras out there today, if you look at the way people take pictures with cell phones/i-phones, if you look at the NEX, and look at the A55, you have seen the future. It's a future without optical viewfinders as that technology allow camera makers to do soooo much more that one can with a camera that has to have a prism. That prism is a prison. A prison of size and of function.

Times change and so do consumer products, and that is what a “Digital” camera is a consumer product.
Ok we may not like what a particular company does, but it is their company and the will make whatever they can sell most of, if we do not want what is offered we go to a brand that we do like the same with all consumer products if it be Cars TV’s etc.
Looking back at the camera markets, see how many manufacturers that have “gone to the wall” I can think of quite a few, mainly because they did not have the technology to change their products or the finances, and people did not buy them.
In this day and age if you are not out front with new innovations you will end up seeing your market share decrease and then get taken over or just disappear.
Sony if right or wrong are doing their own thing, time will tell if they have made the right decision.
Regards
Richard

^^ Agreed. The advantage that sony has over Canon and Nikon is that they are an electronics company, not a camera company. They have much greater resources to pull upon, and a different way of thinking about things. If you look at the recent DSLR offerings from the big two for the past several years, it's same design, more mega-pixles, higher price. That's a model that has worked in the past, but has grown stale. Sony tired that model to compete with them, but with the NEX and a33/55, have gotten away from it, with promising results. Personally, I am very excited about the future of Sony camera products.

Lonnie, it's not "trying to hang on to tradition", it's many other reasons, as well. The 55 EVF isn't hi-res enough for my uses, maybe the 77's will be. But there are other reasons, as well, most of them have been stated again and again.

There's a reason I won't go back to the Amazon jungles without my SRT's and film, and that's being caught once with a dead battery and no spares. I know we can't do digital w/o power, but if I want a long term trek in the bush, I want the least power drain on my cameras I can get, and SLT's aren't giving me that.

As to that prism prison that you have - let me help you plan a jailbreak. Send it to me and I'll send you a brand new a55!

Dusty

Dusty,

I didn't say the EVF in this form was the final end all be all form. I'm saying that it's the future, and the A33/55 are the first view of it (pun intended).

And as for your SRT's and film, you might not have to worry about battery drain, but there are just as many ways to lose shots from a film camera as there are a digital ones. Ask me how I know....

Scooterman, when I buy a camera, - digital or otherwise - I don't want a consumer product, I want a photographic tool. That's why I buy the types I do and the system I do. If Sony deserts that market, them I have to desert them as well. I can buy $100 P&S models that will take snapshots of my kids birthday parties all day long, but I need more.

If they only want to produce consumer electronics cameras, then they're free to do so, just remember that doing so doesn't engender brand or system loyalty, and as soon as Panasonic, Samsung or someone else matches their camera in a more compact or cheaper format, they'll lose customers to them.

Yes, being a "real camera company" (I know, here we go again with that term!) means you have to produce more than a good camera. You have to produce a camera system that's competitive on price and performance to the competition, and that's not easy. Any flash in the pan model you come up with that sets the world on fire will be copied and bettered or cloned at a cheaper price by someone else.

If you're lucky, like Apple and it's iPod, people will always want yours even though everyone else produces a cheaper model that does exactly the same thing, but Sony doesn't have the same mystique as Apple. I don't doubt that the NEX and SLTs are great camera, and a better SLT may someday reside in my camera bag, but I still want an OVF model beside it. Nex doesn't appeal to me, no viewfinder at all and it loses all it's compactness and handling when you put a big lens on it.

No doubt they'll keep selling well, at least until that market is saturated and competing products produced, but will they get people to buy better cameras later, of are they "good enough for what I do" until they break?

Dusty

Dusty,

If you don't believe that a modern DSLR is both a consumer product AND a photographic tool, you are kidding yourself.

Dusty wrote
Dusty, I have an old SRT bought back in 1967. If they fail, and they do, you will not be able to have them repaired. Think of the weight and bulk of film v. same for spare batteries. 360 pictures per battery equals bulk and cost of 10 films. I think the ratio of film to battery would favour battery. Also a spare NEX with converter would fill less space than a SRT. Same battery as A55. In fact, in a situation like that I might go for two NEX-5 spare in the pocket and fit a ClearViewer. Will post a couple of NEX-5 pictures with ClearViewer when I get my Web site posted. That will give you an "OVF" for $53.00
I bought the A700 and with Firmware v.4 and LR3 that cam produces fine pictures even today compared with more advanced models. They did not sell enough because the Barry Walter Dusty type individuals (and others) did not buy enough of them. They then went for intro. models and mid range OVF. Could not break into CaNikon duopoly. Now they are breaking away with new products playing to their strengths and Sony are selling. No way are they going back. The Sony future will be SLT, NEX and integration with video. Time for the "traditionalists" to move on if they don't like what they see.

I would not go back to film, not now that I can do what I do with digital, far too expensive for the films and the wait for the developing printing, no dark room now gave it all away!
Also the old mechanical cameras do fail, like all products they ware out in the end.
I am one of the “older people” but that does not mean I stick in the past, I am all for new technology if it helps me, if not, I am not compelled to buy it.

Regards
Richard

Some classy comments here! I'm around because I am still a Minolta user the vast majority of my equipment is Minolta bar the A200 and one flashgun. I continue to use the system I have whilst I build up adequate funds for K mount purchases. I've not sold the stuff off because I use it and need it..and much of it has minimal value on the s/h market anyway so it's not worth selling.

I'll be just as critical in some ways of Pentax if needed and have been in the past, users giving feedback drives makers to respond and improve products.

With the OVF argument it is simply a personal preference it's not one point or another but actually the fact it is electronic and not as my eyes see in reality that is a complete turn off. Pre-visualisation is ruined with such a viewfinder and that is an essential part of photography (to me) If folks don't want OVF's then why is Fuji trying to do one on the X100 range finder? Somebody obviosly did their homework offering the best of both worlds. I'd consider a hybrid OVF/EVF if it were possible to do one, but absolutely would not purchase an EVF pseudo DSLR. I'm not alone in that either. It's not progress it's simply trying to cut costs in the longer term. Same reason most compacts have no VF it's not because it's "better for the user" it's to save a few dimes here and there.

Great thing with film is you can just dabble now and then which is what I do, not expensive unless you were shooting lots of rolls.

And yes photography is about being sentimental and living in the past