Sony quality control problems

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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Atgets_Apprentice » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:50 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:
The Alpha 77 does not, in my opinion, have a QC problem - it has an actual mistake. My package included the previous version of the Sony software burned to CD, incorrectly labelled with the new version. The installation for Mac was actually a full year out of date and of course wrong for A77 files. The camera seems to have included the wrong firmware version. Could these be connected? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether there is a process where final firmware is burned shortly before delivery and manuals and CDs are added. The manual comes with an erratum sheet which indicates there was a clear change to an intended specification.


I think QC is not exactly the same as errors of the firmware/software kind. QC on the camera components and assembly was probably carried out diligently and they may prove very reliable and well-made. But the same could be said of a perfectly well-made computer which is hopeless because a poor operating system or the wrong BIOS has been loaded. It's QC but not manufacturing QC or component sourcing QC. More human error I would guess - and that happens.

David


These ARE QC issues, both in manufacturing (Firmware) & product packaging (software). If these things were checked before the camera left Sony, they would not have left the factory, therfore Sonys' QC IS lacking.

Regarding the QC problems with Canons black spots, or the focusing problems (of the EOS 1D mkIII?), Canon held their hands up, and rectified the issues, whereas Sony have made no such announcement, aknowledged any problems, or made any effort to put things right in any cohesive way. In fact, other than the instances reported here, and on other sites members have posted links to, the only mention of QC or customer services failings at Sony was in the letters page of Amateur Photographer two weeks ago.

It is sad that there is a negative vibe here, which I admit to having contributed to, but the real fault at the root of the negativity lies with Sony. If they had the guts or the gumption to admit there are issues with their cameras, and say what they intend to do about them, it would improve their standing in the eyes of many here, if, of course, they were to come good on any promises made.

A small start in that direction would be for Mr Genge to answer the questions posed to him on Facebook over a week ago, which he said he'd try to answer during last week. Still waiting...... :roll:
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby gio67 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:02 pm

I must agree with David on this issue,I get a bit fed up with constant negativity from the same people although I don't class Henry as one of them, hoiwever referring to other threads on other sites etc is very negative I,m sure people can search them out for themselves, I have had the A1;A2;alpha 100 alpha 200 ,alpha 700 and most recently the alpha 580 plus various lenses , flashes, radio remotes and have never had a problem with any of them,although I gave the alpha 100 to my son and he managed to break it in a week through ie nonchalantly throwing it into the boot of his car, which shows theres no accounting for mishandling,especially electronics, however maybe it's that I'm more careful than lucky

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby [SiC] » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:45 pm

Actually my Minolta 500si from ~98 has a control wheel problem, maybe the problem dates back even further than that? :-o
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Scooterman
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Scooterman » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:50 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:Henry's posts are giving this forum such a negative feel that I doubt we will have any Alpha users left soon. I have owned KM7D, KM5D, A100 (x2 together), 200 (x2 together), 700 (x2 because of issue), 350 (x3, still got two), 550, 580, 900, 55, 77, NEX-5 and also used for test purposes several others.

None of these cameras has ever developed the kind of issues others encounter, maybe I don't use them enough. The only one with what I would consider to be a defect was the A700 with a faulty CMOS sensor, a line of bad pixels. But it was no worse than both the Canon 7Ds I've had to test, which had random bad pixels and banding patterns at higher ISOs.

The Alpha 77 does not, in my opinion, have a QC problem - it has an actual mistake. My package included the previous version of the Sony software burned to CD, incorrectly labelled with the new version. The installation for Mac was actually a full year out of date and of course wrong for A77 files. The camera seems to have included the wrong firmware version. Could these be connected? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether there is a process where final firmware is burned shortly before delivery and manuals and CDs are added. The manual comes with an erratum sheet which indicates there was a clear change to an intended specification.

SanDisk trusted the Alpha 77 enough to use it at their big London event last week, because the Alpha 77 is the only camera made which can use their new ultra fast SDXC cards - clearing the buffer in 18 seconds after a 12fps RAW burst, instead of the 45 seconds reported for SDHC cards of the fastest current speed. I would hazard a guess that latest firmware versions were used.

I think QC is not exactly the same as errors of the firmware/software kind. QC on the camera components and assembly was probably carried out diligently and they may prove very reliable and well-made. But the same could be said of a perfectly well-made computer which is hopeless because a poor operating system or the wrong BIOS has been loaded. It's QC but not manufacturing QC or component sourcing QC. More human error I would guess - and that happens.

When I find an problem, I report. But I don't keep reporting the same issue for post after post, or putting a link in one thread and then posting a new thread with exactly the same link just to highlight problems. Nor have I, so far, removed any such repetitive posts. But I'm getting fed up with the general tone of several parts of the forum. If I was an interested visitor, I'd have stopped reading and probably forgotten any ideas of being interested in the Alpha system by now.

David

I whole heartedly agree with you David, if there are issues yes report it, but one or two people just snipe all the time and why I have not been on the forum for quite a while.
My friend Peter who uses both A-900 and the A-77 is now using the A-77 more, he loves it and has never had any problems at all, I will be having a play with it (the A-77) on Tuesday weather permiting, I use at the moment my 2 A-580 bodies and I love them, if I get on well with the A-77 that will be next on my list.
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Bengeo » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:21 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:SanDisk trusted the Alpha 77 enough to use it at their big London event last week, because the Alpha 77 is the only camera made which can use their new ultra fast SDXC cards - clearing the buffer in 18 seconds after a 12fps RAW burst, instead of the 45 seconds reported for SDHC cards of the fastest current speed. I would hazard a guess that latest firmware versions were used.


David - are you sure about those timings?

I've got a Sandisk Extreme Pro 45MB/s card and my A77 (1.02) clears the buffer in about 15 seconds. I've got the Sandisk 90MB/s SDXC card on order and I would hope that will clear the buffer in under 10 seconds!

Andy

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Dr. Harout » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:44 pm

I am still strong on my decision to acquire an a77. The only question is from where?
I really hope it will be available in Dubai by the end of this month, if so I'll have it in my hands within the first week of November (though I really doubt the availability).
Anyone visiting Armenia in the near future?
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby pakodominguez » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:45 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:Henry's posts are giving this forum such a negative feel that I doubt we will have any Alpha users left soon.
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2535&start=165#p61176
pakodominguez wrote:I don't think the spirit of this thread is to solve issues, but just to "report" them.
And that's the reason I didn't want to participate on this forum until now. Because I think it is useless.
David Kilpatrick wrote:I have owned KM7D, KM5D, A100 (x2 together), 200 (x2 together), 700 (x2 because of issue), 350 (x3, still got two), 550, 580, 900, 55, 77, NEX-5 and also used for test purposes several others.

None of these cameras has ever developed the kind of issues others encounter, maybe I don't use them enough.

I only had to send the Maxxum 7D (and Flashes) to the service because inconsistency with flash. Otherwise I could love cameras for different reasons (7D, A700) or hate others (A100). But never experienced a mayor quality issue with my cameras. In other hand, I understand that sampling occurs, more and more, and someone have to suffer it.

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bossel » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:38 pm

Dr. Harout wrote:Anyone visiting Armenia in the near future?

Hey, had you asked before, our Sarko national went to Armenia, I could have given him an A77 for you :mrgreen:

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Dr. Harout » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:47 pm

bossel wrote:
Dr. Harout wrote:Anyone visiting Armenia in the near future?

Hey, had you asked before, our Sarko national went to Armenia, I could have given him an A77 for you :mrgreen:


Well, since his wife was not accompanying... :mrgreen:
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bossel » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:03 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:... posts are giving this forum such a negative feel that I doubt we will have any Alpha users left soon... David

Well, it's an internet forum and we can't stop people telling their thoughts. Some are more insisting than others, or have more time. There are many posts of some members which upset me and 3 months later I discover they think like me (which is a good thing :mrgreen: ). We will never agree, all of us. As long as me and my wife are not insulted, I can just ignore posts I consider pointless. On any forum people will debate over EVF vs OVF and NEX vs SLT vs SLR and why Nikon or Sony or Canon are better and I won't stop them. Just keep in mind your audience. On an Audi forum, having been an Audi driver, I could share my thoughts about my new BMW. Insisting on the superiority of my BMW, noone would appreciate. Not saying Audi is better than BMW, just a question how and who you talk to.

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:12 am

I reckon Skoda is better than Audi cos some are used in Le Tour de France :lol:
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby twm47099 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:29 am

I think the disappointment is that Sony fails to acknowledge that there are some characteristic failures with their cameras that are design related (I don't consider them QC problems).

KM at least acknowledged the FBF problem and did have it fixed for free well outside of the warranty period.

On the other hand, I believe that Sony has tried to fix the classic Minolta aperture motor failure problem in their newer cameras (As a failure mode it was not widespread, but apparently goes way back -- my Maxxum 7 had it, and as far as I know the only characteristic failure mode of the Minoltas.)

I just wish Sony would spend a little more effort when they release a new camera to make sure there are no built in problems that the first buyer will find.

tom

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby edrice » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:09 am

It seems that the A77 and A65 pre-order pages have disappeared from Amazon. My account order page says that they are experiencing a delay.

Suppose this could be related?

Ed

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:52 am

In Thailand it rains mainly around the Sony plant, but seriously it seems they have had lots of flooding in the district where the plant is, the factory is ok but workers can’t get to work and transport/deliveries etc. are in disarray, there was a thread at dpr about it, so it looks like there might be some delays filling existing orders.
Greg

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby edrice » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:15 am

The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain.

I guess it's enough that they didn't want to except any more pre-orders.


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