It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:17 pm

Forum rules


No more than three images or three external links allowed in any post or reply. Please trim quotations and do not include images in quotes unless essential.



Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 27 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:59 pm 
Initiate

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 56
I looked at the Sony US site wondering if they had any deals on Black Friday. They are giving away 32 inch TV if you buy an A99 between now and Monday.

They don't say which TV, but I'm going to find out and maybe I'll bite.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:40 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 3255
How about buy a 32" TV and get a "free" A99? Sounds good to me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:20 am 
Initiate

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 56
bfitzgerald wrote:
How about buy a 32" TV and get a "free" A99? Sounds good to me



To each his own. I'm sure its a fine camera or people like David K. would not be buying it. Whether it is worth $2800 is another question.

The TV Sony is giving away with it, retails for $400. If Sony credit is used for the purchase, there is another $100 credit. That places the A99 cost closer to $2300 (for this week), which is closer to the point many people think it should have been priced it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:30 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:38 pm
Posts: 5751
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
bfitzgerald wrote:
How about buy a 32" TV and get a "free" A99? Sounds good to me


:lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
A99 + Sony, Zeiss, Minolta, Rokinon and M42 lenses

Flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:01 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Posts: 6176
Location: Kelso, Scotland
The deal is only for purchases direct from Sony, so they are basically using their dealer discount margin. They have been honouring the TV for some buyers who got in before the deal - very honourable and fair.

I've written my British Journal report on the A99 now. It concludes with a simple paragraph stating that the A99 is perhaps overpriced by 30% in the UK market, especially given the price of the A77 which is a substantially identical body in terms of built and main features - £850 UK now at outlets which sell the A99 for £2200.

This is qualified by the comment that Sony said, originally, that the mirrorless/SLT designs should lower the manufacturing cost by removing moving parts and the optical prism, and all the alignment and precision associated with making a mirror, AF module, sensor and focusing screen agree with each other. It was anticipated that the EVF SLT 'model' would enable Sony to undercut competitors while out-specifying them.

Instead the trend towards affordable FF has been left for Nikon and Canon to gain from.

David

_________________
http://www.photoclubalpha.com
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:45 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 3255
The SLT aspect said to me "affordable Full frame" and I think they do have cost savings based on that, as well as faster manufacturing for each body produced (ie another cost saving)
I've no idea how much a sensor costs, but if Nikon can sell a FF body for under £1500 (and falling) I can't see how Sony can hope to make any serious inroads into the FF market at this price. If it were around the same level as the Nikon maybe..

I don't know what they are thinking but it's an obvious blunder IMO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:54 am 
Oligarch

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:07 am
Posts: 233
the A99 is clearly a better specified body than the D600 (or 6D when it arrives) so it's worth a few £hundred more than those.
You can quite easily argue that it's the D800 that is underpriced relative to the A99 & 5D MkIII.
& of course with the D800/5D MkIII you are comparing the street price of bodies that have been out for some time versus a new body that's only just arrived in stock & hence is selling at or near rsp - give it 6 months & it'll be well under £2000 (it's actually £1954 direct from Sony this weekend using a promotion code).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:30 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 3255
Yeah but that's on promotion. I doubt many users will care less if the A99 is "worth a bit more " than the D600
Most folks want a FF that does not kill their wallet, and Sony have failed big time here. In 6 months it will need to be under £1500 not well under £2000
And in 6 months how much will a D600 be? £1200 odd?

I thought Sony were serious about trying to wrestle the top 2 makers, clearly not. Some A mount users might even jump to F mount because of the D600 (I obviously won't based on my own experience of Nikon) That's a real problem for Sony


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:16 am 
Oligarch

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:07 am
Posts: 233
bfitzgerald wrote:
Yeah but that's on promotion. I doubt many users will care less if the A99 is "worth a bit more " than the D600
Most folks want a FF that does not kill their wallet, and Sony have failed big time here. In 6 months it will need to be under £1500 not well under £2000
And in 6 months how much will a D600 be? £1200 odd?

well, the D600 etc. are on promotion too ;)
Some people will look at the specs & decide that the A99 is worth more than a D600 etc. & who is to say that Sony themselves won't bring out an A8x as a lower spec., budget FF?
Given time imo the A99 will fall to ~£1600 & the D600 to ~£1350.

Quote:
I thought Sony were serious about trying to wrestle the top 2 makers, clearly not. Some A mount users might even jump to F mount because of the D600 (I obviously won't based on my own experience of Nikon) That's a real problem for Sony

it's been obvious for some time now that Sony just don't have the production capacity for DSLR bodies/lenses to match Nikon & Canon even if they were in the position of having the demand & that's not an overnight fix (they need to manage growing demand & capacity in sync.).
But are they serious about the market long term - I believe so.
& yes, I'm sure that they'll lose a few existing A-mount users but they are also picking up a few converts too ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:56 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 3255
I've no idea what Sony think or plan. I have said for some time their initial "number 2" statement years ago was unrealistic and it's never a good idea to create a target which can't be met. I don't doubt they "want to gain more market share" but I do question their thinking at times.
Reality is..there wasn't a lot of excitement from most folks (across brands) for the A99, maybe it was the SLT aspect..possibly the price was just a big yawn. But consider this. If Sony are to have any hope of really making some kind of impact in this business (APS-C or FF) they're going to have to pay more attention in a number of areas.

Reality is very few non Sony users would pick an A99 over a FF Canikon (Canon need to drop the 6d price rapidly too) partly on system depth, but mostly on what you get for your cash. The A99 is just going to wither and die against the D800 (which is where it's priced)and 5d MkIII. Maybe they have an A8xx FF model in the works I would hope so.

And like I said SLT is a very difficult sell at the full frame level, it's actually likely to put more people off than it will attract so I have to question the logic of making a product which does not meet the needs of the target buyer! (well bar video possibly) Sony need some kind of "pull factor" and price could be the one to go for. They can't on range as they've no.3 in a four horse race. We know steady shot isn't enough to dent the top 2 either (I like it..many do but it's not a kills all feature for most) SLT aspect is mixed at best many won't really care, and overall I don't think it's going to make a big difference v other makers.

When was the last thread you read from FF Canikon users asking for an EVF or wow A99 rocks or might switch? It's just not having any impact and personally looking at the A99 release reception it just wasn't that interesting a camera (SLT or not)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:09 am 
Tower of Babel
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 3:25 pm
Posts: 6135
Location: Townsville, Qld. Australia
I have to agree Barry, I like the A99 based purely on its sensor, and forgetting for a moment that it is basically a video centric camera that can do stills. I think also that Sony would be best employed doing something they haven’t tried yet, i.e. concentrate on building a still camera system, filling in the gaps in the accessory line-up with items that have been missing since day one.
Greg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:28 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 3255
The sensor looks good (but then it looks good on the D600 too)
There are most def gaps in the system, and Sony are again missing the in body stabilisation pull. Canon can sell a 70-200mm f2.8 (non IS) for under £950, yet Sony continue to sell their 70-200mm f2.8 for £1500, completely missing the opportunity to offer buyers some real advantages to IBIS ie in their wallet!
They also lack some obvious lenses 70-200mm f4, their 70-300mm G is grossly overpriced, they have no current reasonable cost 24 or 28mm primes (just a pricey 24mm Zeiss), they have a slow 85mm f2.8 budget lens, then a horribly expensive f1.4 Zeiss offering missing the middle ground entirely (85mm f1.8), they have no up to date UWA zoom for APS-C cameras. No proper ring flash either.

Their most recent lens offering is a mediocre 18-135mm lens which IMO isn't that interesting nor that good optically (from what I've seen)

That's not a good situation to be in right now.
IMO the price break point for FF is £1000, and I expect the D600 to reach that price at some point...might take a year maybe less but it should get there or close enough.
If you've already seen the band wagon it's too late, Nikon will pull in a lot of FF users with ease. Sony have to respond. Canon def will respond with price cuts
The market is changing the days of dumping down £1300 for a higher level APS-C body are over, this now is FF land. So they will have to put a lot more effort into their range top to bottom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:44 pm 
Tower of Babel
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 3:25 pm
Posts: 6135
Location: Townsville, Qld. Australia
At least Sony has yet to have an expensive model with a left bank of AF sensors that don’t work properly or a camera that fogs up the sensor with stuff from the Exxon Valdez, or endemic back focus, so a well done is in order for that and for the advances in sensor technology and the implementation of it.
I’m happy to give Sony credit for the things they do well because they can do good stuff when they want too, but it has been fairly obvious for a long time that they do struggle with the concept of a ‘system’ or a convincing themed approach in making a still camera system surrounded by accessories that all work in harmony.
One thing stands out, Sony has struggled with the flash system, the flash system has been unreliable since the A100 even the unreliableness is unreliable if you take into account that some cameras of the same model are apparently unaffected while others are a basket case with flash.
And the capacity of Sony to remain oblivious of the fact that they haven’t had a motion freezing macro ring flash in their system since day one is totally awesome, but then if they can’t build a reliable system flash what are the chances of them doing it with a macro flash? Recently they may have had an attempt at a macro ring flash but ended up building another ring light instead. :roll:
When you look at macro in the Sony system the absence of any attention to that segment is outstanding, no oem tube set, no oem rack plate, no oem bellows, no oem micro lenses, no oem +filters and no oem macro ring flash, also no firmware segment in camera that could be mistaken for attention to macro focus stacking, likewise with the software.
One could also not accuse Sony of making much of an attempt to understand studio either, apart from the new hotshoe, but then that was primarily aimed at accommodating video accessories, any other attributes are probably accidental.
When it comes to lenses I’m sort of at a loss to figure out if there is any kind of system planning or not, there are some important gaps still to be filled but Sony keeps bringing out new DT lenses covering different parts of the zoom range instead, (and SAM’s, some of which are very good for the price, but why did the screw drive system need SAM’s anyway?) and really where are the f4 lenses, is the 500/4 it? Surely it’s past time to have a look at that and maybe even a shift lens or two. I would guess Sony won’t try to compete with Sigma in the ultra wide zoom range; their price would be twice that of Sigma for the same thing, going on past experience.
Greg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:36 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 3255
Greg half the problem with Sony is they're not really understanding the difference between consumer/photographer. And there is def a difference not being snobby but average Joe isn't going to buy much maybe the odd body and bash about with a kit lens. So they tend to over make products for the less fussy consumer, stuffing some gimmicks in there (auto portrait framing is one of them!) and call it job done. Fine I give them some credit for the "easy choice" affordable primes, shame about the cheapie build but they got the concept of affordable pretty well.

Sony probably sit there and say "oh well we won't sell many of those won't bother" with xyz lenses. Same as they stopped doing grips for the lower end bodies. Canon actually sell quite a few grips for the rebel range, but they sell because they're not half the price of a DSLR body! Simple concept but one that does not grasp Sony at all (ie folks ain't gonna pay £170 for a budget body grip, but they might pay £100)

Flash wise personally I'm using Metz now and that's where I intend to stay because I can iron out some of the Sony niggles with those flashes (and they get firmware updated too) Sony do need to take a look at Nikon's flash (which I give them credit is excellent) you have full manual control on a DSLR on body flash, and for the CLS capable ones you can control the entire set of flashes from the camera output wise and groups. Really Sony do have to move on that and get a grip on things, it's mostly down to not paying attention of not offering enough of "what serious users want"

In the longer term it's the serious users who spend the cash..and quite a lot of it over a period of time..not the newbie ones who basically buy sod all!
The best thing about Sony for me is that I can buy s/h good Minolta glass, and Tamron lenses and get IBIS for free. I just hope Sony don't do something silly and take out the in body AF motor or change the mount (instant death!)
I can't say how things will pan out for them they say new bodies are coming next year, but they have to get this stuff nailed down and sorted out quickly. The SAM lenses I've used were not that great some say the new ones are better..same for the in lens AF motors I had on the Tamron lenses were actually worse than having screw drive ones (Nikon basically forced their hand there by dumping the AF motor on lower end bodies)

I'll be honest the only reason I'm here is "I've a bunch of Minolta lenses...etc etc" if I were starting from scratch now I'm not sure Sony would really be that high up the list, had it not been for the problems with Pentax and Nikon I might have stuck around there. That's life though at least this body has decent autofocus!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Free TV with A99
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:17 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:38 pm
Posts: 5751
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Barry, I think their FF bodies for next year would be in the Cybershot range (RX2, RX3, or similar). But don't take my word for it.
If they are aiming for number 2, then one of their "weapons" might be a diversified approach to attract amateurs/professionals with their different camera systems, yet having many "intersections" among each other.
Thus, they'll have APS-C mirrorless cameras (NEX), Compact FF (RX series) and the Alpha A-mount system.
Add to that (a probable) interchangeable lens RX FF system...
This kind of trio might really work.

_________________
A99 + Sony, Zeiss, Minolta, Rokinon and M42 lenses

Flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 27 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
twilightBB Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net