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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:44 pm 
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I should have remember Dxyum - some information there, people more concerned about noise levels and bit depth of files than this shutter action, but their info has provided the answer.

See this thread on dPreview:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50374240

Basically, it's down the A99 using 14-bit capture in single frame mode and not in the continuous mode, and 14-bit capture appears to need a 1/10th second readout phase during which the sensor remains covered by the shutter.

David

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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:36 pm 
Tower of Babel
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David, I’m interested in the 1/250sec sync speed. It would be interesting to see if there is any difference in single shot between having no flash and comparing the shutter sound (cycle time) when an oem flash of some kind is mounted on the hot shoe (and functional).
Greg
Ps I wonder where this 14bit stuff and the superior latitude came from…hmmm


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:38 pm 
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David, but then the question is - is the readout always 14bit in the single shot mode regardless of any menu settings?


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Apparently yes, you can't disable 14-bit - but you only get 14-bit in single frame at a time bracketing (use automatic sequence-shot bracketing and you just get 12-bit) or single normal shooting.

What's interesting from the Dyxum thread examples is that you get better JPEGs if you shoot single frame, not just better raws. It seems the raw capture at 14 bit is then processed for 8-bit JPEG but it's processed better. This has important value for some shooters.

Also, the Dyxum examples show just how poor the 12-bit conversion is compared to the 14.

Leads some interesting questions - better to shoot DRO+ single frame JPEG, than do a multishot HDR which uses 12-bit?

David

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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:31 pm 
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David Kilpatrick wrote:
Apparently yes, you can't disable 14-bit - but you only get 14-bit in single frame at a time bracketing (use automatic sequence-shot bracketing and you just get 12-bit) or single normal shooting.
Then the only way to have 12bit 'faster' mode is to set to continuous and press the shutter briefly enough to get just one frame taken.
I would guess it may help with some flash timing issues reported elsewhere earlier...

Regarding the inadequacy of 12bit raw, I must say that I always said exactly that much. I know too well that 12bit is not enough as the raw data in the weaker colour channels often fall as low as to 3-2bit precision. And then no decent processing is possible. And that's not a rare occurrence, it happens in good light with weaker channels in the saturated bright colour patches on a regular basis.


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:28 pm 
Tower of Babel
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[quote="agorabasta"]Then the only way to have 12bit 'faster' mode is to set to continuous and press the shutter briefly enough to get just one frame taken.
I would guess it may help with some flash timing issues reported elsewhere earlier...
quote]

Most would not shoot in flash in rapid advance I imagine, so the test I want is single frame advance at 1/250sec with flash on and off. But I think my request will be forgotten now….again.
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Well, Greg, I cannot do any tests for you as I have no plans to get an a99. Not interested at all.

I think I can wait till we have a fully functional modular Alpha-Nex hybrid system.


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:55 pm 
Tower of Babel
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So far I’ve only found a brief reference to 12bit-14bit recording on page 140 in the A99 handbook, it doesn’t make mention of any processing or shutter actuation time delays (not surprised) involved through the use of 14bit, on that page at least.

Yes agorabasta I think that’s probably the next design advance and it would be good too if done properly, something like a module comprising the IBIS + sensor + processor that plugs into the body frame that has a glass faced rear screen which folds out sideways and swivels, it stays with the body frame so you don’t have to pay to replace that every time an upgrade happens.
Letting my imagination run riot:
All the knobs switches and buttons are on the body, the memory module is also a module that can be unplugged and upgraded if necessary, same with the socket bank and covers on the left side. The EVF housing can be detached if necessary and upgraded/exchanged for a different one.
The mount would have to be a short register large enough for FF (maybe a larger version of the E-mount with a short adaptor to actual E-mount) and comes with an adaptor already in place for A-mount lenses, the adaptor for A-mount could come in two flavours, one with an SLT mirror for the EVF and PDAF and one with a regular mirror that goes with the OVF viewfinder, or you could just choose an open adaptor then everything relates to the on sensor CDAF/PDAF for better or worse, no mirror at all, and used with the EVF housing.
Maybe all that will be too much in one go, in reality it might take many many evolutionary camera models to get there and besides we wouldn’t want to deny them the opportunity of dragging the whole process out, a bit at a time…would we? Just imagine how much fun people would have wanting this or that firmware upgrade too.
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:14 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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agorabasta wrote:
Well, Greg, I cannot do any tests for you as I have no plans to get an a99. Not interested at all.

I think I can wait till we have a fully functional modular Alpha-Nex hybrid system.



Quick question but what exactly is a fully functional modular Alpha-Nex system?
Or rather what "could it be"


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:30 am 
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bfitzgerald wrote:
Or rather what "could it be"
Well, that should be a main body about the size of a57 or slightly smaller, should have enough direct control buttons/knobs, should have integrated IBIS, should come with an A-E adapter that doesn't look or feel foreign when attached. Would be nice to have it use two batteries of existing types, instead of using some larger camcorder battery type; this way you could put in one or two batteries depending on expected usage.

That's all quite realistic, btw.


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:15 pm 
Tower of Babel
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agorabasta wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:
Or rather what "could it be"
Well, that should be a main body about the size of a57 or slightly smaller, should have enough direct control buttons/knobs, should have integrated IBIS, should come with an A-E adapter that doesn't look or feel foreign when attached. Would be nice to have it use two batteries of existing types, instead of using some larger camcorder battery type; this way you could put in one or two batteries depending on expected usage.

That's all quite realistic, btw.


That’s great agorabasta, a good description of the first model, salut. :D
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Just for fun (as per usual not to be taken too seriously)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SShHCsu ... ure=g-high

He does mention blackout time with the A99


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Gary Friedman has confirmed my findings - I knew someone would be able to understand exactly what I needed to know.

Final measurement - the blackout in 14-bit mode is 1/5th second, 200ms. That means that every shot you take in this mode with the A99 'feels' like making a 1/5th second exposure on a regular SLR.

This is a period between the image capture and the shutter curtain recharge. So if you shot a 1/5th second exposure, the 1/5th blackout is added to it.

David

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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:47 pm 
Viceroy

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David, had they a added such a long (not necessarily 14-bit) readout mode in a77, its noise properties would be about the best in class...


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 Post subject: Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:20 am 
Tower of Babel
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Barry I think that last guy annoys me even more than the first one, waving expensive cameras around with a one handed grip while on a bike with no wrist lanyard of any kind, the neck strap isn’t fitted either, that’s just asking for a bump-drop and crunch at some point.
Greg
Ps David there were others on your dpreview thread that confirmed what you were saying before any involvement by Gary F (that was apparent to anyone), meanwhile what about the comparison that I asked about?


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