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 Post subject: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:02 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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I didn't expect it to go down that well, but the level of anger shown is quite heated..

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50423573

I can't comment on it as I've not got a body with the new hot shoe, nor the new Sony flash either. But some more info here
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/09 ... 60m-flash/


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Dustinash posted that Barry - he's a regular troll who does the same for every aspect of every camera...

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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:12 pm 
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I was kind of curious if the pins are really "that fragile" some other posters seem a bit concerned too.


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:56 am 
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David Kilpatrick wrote:
Dustinash posted that Barry - he's a regular troll who does the same for every aspect of every camera...


I don't know him, but isn't the point whether he is right about what he writes in his post? If he is then what people have labeled him is irrelevant, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:44 am 
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I wondered about the new shoe idea as well, I think it follows on from the other changes that superficially emulate the Nikon style of doing things, the little top deck LCD, (no point really if you have a tilt swivel rear LCD, so it’s basically a waste of deck space) the removal of the left thumb on/off switch, transferring it to the shutter button, (an advance sideways, but it makes Nikon users feel at home) the adoption of the ISO style shoe (Nikon and Canon flashes will now fit on the camera, but not work of course), the F60 flash will now readily fit on an external standard hot shoe bracket in a studio situation thus removing one of the major complaints that Nikon and Canon users had about the i-shoe and using Sony flash. (probably a good thing in the long run)
As far as the contacts go I haven’t seen them personally but if you take on board what one of the owners said about them not being ‘wires’ (as some said) but are of a blade design in a slot then they do sound as if they would be quite robust and that objection is not of any concern, the only worry I would have at this point is that the camera shoe looks like it would hold and retain water which would ‘connect’ all those contacts in the front of the shoe together. I don’t take my cameras out in the rain (sooner or later you will regret doing so if you do) so that would not be an issue for me (but some people do take their cameras out in the rain of course).
I don’t know how well the oem shoe cover seals the shoe off from water penetration, but looking at the design with those contacts under a fully enclosed lip that would retain water it would need to seal the shoe very well I think otherwise it would only cause the water that had gotten in to be hidden from view.
The other question that occurred to me was concerning the operation of the locking pins (I didn’t get an answer from the Sony snake oil guy who appeared briefly on dpr in defence of the new Sony hot shoe), are they back sprung on the flash or not? i.e. when you engage the lock on the flash on a standard shoe that does not have any holes for the pins is the internal lock system worked through a spring loaded pressure plate or is it direct drive?
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Hmm interesting
Looking at the hot shoe on the A99 you see 3 holes there which could be used for locking pins. On other normal ISO hot shoes they have just one pin which the flash usually has a spring loaded mechanism to lock it. So once you put it on the hot shoe it is partially secure. Looking at the Sony flash they are not using any pins to lock it onto the hot shoe!

I read a few posts that worried me a bit. One guy said his flash fell off the A99 twice during a wedding..another poster said their radio trigger didn't fit the new hot shoe properly and they might have to "file it down a bit"

Another thing struck me..so you go out and buy an A99 and the new flash. Great you get an adaptor for using the i-ISO hot shoe flashes. So what happens if you want to use your HVL-F60M on the i-ISO hot shoe? Hmmmmm. And when next year all the hot shoes are changed on new models, are Sony going to bundle that adaptor in with all the bodies?

Changing the hot shoe "back" to the standard ISO hot shoe might be a move open to debate, but Sony seem to have added more confusion by mixing in their own proprietary contacts.


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:52 pm 
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I saw a photo of the bottom of the F60 foot somewhere…yes on that first dpr link you posted Barry scroll down and it’s there. There are two pins which I assume protrude into the holes on the camera shoe, (when the lock lever on the flash is engaged) I don’t see a corresponding pin for the third hole so I don’t know what the purpose of that one is. The question I asked the Sony guy was concerning the pins, to see if he could shed any light on the matter, but he had already gone back into silent mode. If those pins work properly (haven’t been damaged by operating the lock lever on a shoe without holes for example) I don’t see how the flash could fall off the camera…very odd that one.
Apparently the F60 flash also comes with an adaptor so you can mount it on an i-shoe, so they made two adaptors actually. I bet when the cheaper bodies come out with the new shoe there won’t be any adaptor in the box, it’ll be listed separately.
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Greg Beetham wrote:
Apparently the F60 flash also comes with an adaptor so you can mount it on an i-shoe, so they made two adaptors actually. I bet when the cheaper bodies come out with the new shoe there won’t be any adaptor in the box, it’ll be listed separately.
Greg


But then they would have to update the mid level flash too, and they still have stocks of older flashes being sold. It adds even more to buyer angst so I would have to say I think I'll stick to i-ISO hot shoe bodies for the near future. They probably won't bundle it because Sony can't even put a hot shoe cover in the box..though I am sure cheaper ebay clones will turn up. Evidently they are going to replace the A37 and A57 very shortly I think 24mp and the new hot shoe unlikely much else will turn up but I see talk of a "possible to put the SLT mirror up" with a lens attached on the rumour site.

Note the new flash adds an LED video light, but I can't see any progress being made in other areas.

On the plus side I found a cost effective alternative to Sony's much hated "LED ring light" :mrgreen:
(Sony HVL-RLAM)

So pay £270 for the Sony one

Or hit ebay and buy a Yongnuo one for £20...your choice :shock:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290711229541? ... 1438.l2649


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:29 am 
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They had those stupid led ring lights in the local camera shop for lots cheaper than that heavily inflated Sony price, those things would be almost useless out in the wild for macro, they are not bright enough for the shutter speed plus the f-stop you need to use to obtain the dof, (I checked one out in the store using my Minolta exposure meter) you have to use a high ISO to get the shutter speed up whereas with a flash you wouldn’t need to do either. Not only that it’s doubly useless because it’s bright enough at night to scare away small critters (frogs for example) that you are trying to get close too, a genuine ring flash has a modelling light that is not as bright, but just bright enough to focus with and is much less likely to scare small critters and has the motion freezing pulse that only flash can give.
But Sony is oblivious to all that of course, a succession of led light models makes more sense to them when you take video into account, but it doesn’t make any sense too still photographers, what’s worse is you can’t get any response from Sony on the matter that makes sense, either that or you get ignored.
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Greg I'm getting a bit more into macro but right now I'm not likely to purchase a ring flash but may do later on. Both Sigma and Metz have interesting offerings or that Marumi budget offering is available for Sony.
I just think Sony don't seem to put much priority on this kind of thing and from what I can see they have nothing at all to offer now what's so hard about an updated Minolta 1200AF? Maybe they just don't get it

I guess they are happy to let buyers pick up something from other makers
I ran across Walt's post here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/42320764


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:21 pm 
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You did well to track down that 4 month old Walt post Barry. Walt even went as far as joining the Sony blog for a while but he gave that away as bad joke mainly I think for the reason I suspected that it would be a waste of time doing, the people on the Sony side of the equation, they aren’t involved in or connected with design or system direction, their job is to promote what’s given to them and their best interest is served by not rocking the boat. They are just incapable of answering questions of a technical nature or providing any insight of the kind we require, but that’s the customer interface that Sony provides and we are stuck with it for better or worse. It’s probably one of the most important reasons why they try to keep such a large proportion of the ‘system’ that Sony does provide at a level they think is applicable to most of the participants involved on both sides of the fence, a kind of self fulfilling prophecy if you like.
The few that want a better system or who know that it is possible to have a better ‘photographic’ orientated system will probably be regarded as acceptable losses should they become restless because I don’t think Sony is really trying to appeal to the sophisticated photographer type even though they could if they wanted too with a segment of the system devoted to those kinds of pursuits, macro, micro, astrophotography and studio for example, they do seem to have made great advances for those doing bif so all is not lost, it all depends on how long one has left to live I guess.
It would be good one day for Sony to tell us exactly why they didn’t bring the complete macro flash system across from Konica Minolta, they even took away the socket on the controller for the ring flash, they could have at least left that there even if they wanted to flog some dopey led ring light of their own instead of offering the flash. It seems that’s the only answer that makes any kind of limited sense, Sony actually thought that a ring light was/is a full and adequate replacement for a ring flash…and they still do after all this time, after how many threads and posts on the subject they bring us yet another ring light? The mind doth boggle. :roll:
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Here's Gary's blog post on various flash things esp the new hot shoe:
http://friedmanarchives.blogspot.ca/201 ... -shoe.html


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:25 am 
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Of all people, previously super happy Kirk Tuck is now ranting about the "new hot shoe"
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.ie/201 ... ering.html


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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:39 pm 
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bfitzgerald wrote:
Of all people, previously super happy Kirk Tuck is now ranting about the "new hot shoe"
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.ie/201 ... ering.html

Ouch! That's some stinging criticism.

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 Post subject: Re: Users anger at hot shoe change...
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:54 am 
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"2. The new flashes (HVL 60) have put the firing pin for the flash at some random position where it fires almost no third party radio trigger. Work arounds include taking a hacksaw to your flash trigger."
I don't know about radio triggers because I don't use any at this moment, but I use Nikon flashes on my A99 (SB 26 and SB28) and they fit perfectly on the hot shoe.
For the rest, you can like it or not, but the argument about standard hotshoe is for uninformed people, since there is no such a thing as "standard hotshoe" (try to use a Canon flash on a Nikon camera, both with "standard hotshoes")

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