FF announced

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Wes Gibbon
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FF announced

Unread postby Wes Gibbon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:51 am


OneGuyKs
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby OneGuyKs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:04 am

Wes Gibbon wrote:Just a quick post:
http://www.dpreview.com/products/Sony/slrs/sony_a7r


http://youtu.be/bnvgceTEV3c

With all the hot air blown by some posters. look great.

These will probably be Sony's best selling FF cameras.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby classiccameras » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:09 am

Thanks for posting that Wes, it had to happen, very OMD in looks, we all suspected Sony had some thing like this up their sleeve. we know that there has been some joint research going on between Sony and Olympus, I wonder if this is why it looks like an OMD.
The burning question now is what is going to happen to A Mount.
It looks like they are doing an Olympus on us. take it or leave it. Hmm

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bfitzgerald
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:32 am

EU prices are a bit better on the bodies, the lenses are as before overpriced and not interesting (ie slow)
I still am not seeing anything here that interests me (the new adaptor is expensive too) I don't like the design and lack of IBIS makes it uninteresting for using my A Mount inventory on such a body.

Battery life is also remarkably poor, and using a partial plastic mount on bodies this price is really a no go. No charger provided either.
It's not my cup of tea at all, I'm sure the sensors will be good no question.

WEX emailed me pre order prices:
£1299
£1699 (7r)
£999 RX10

So the 24mp 7 is about £50 more than a 6d currently (on cashback)
RX10 looked quite nice until I spotted a major blunder, no mechanical zoom just a zoom switch on the top deck which is a huge let down. It's also far too expensive for a 1" sensor body.

Anything that helps dump down prices is welcomed esp FF prices Sony might do that with these (subject to street prices falling a bit more)
I'd imagine it will help pull down the D610 and 6d street prices too. But FF has to get a lot cheaper than this to really hit mainstream.

Wes Gibbon
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Wes Gibbon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:58 pm

This announcement does raise some issues. The A7R is interesting as it seems to be offering an alternative to the D800E. It could be big news for some landscape photographers as it is likely to cut down on weight but still give 36Mp and no optical low-pass filter. It could appeal to those who liked the Mamiya 6/7 rangefinders. The lack of in-body stabilisation may not be a big problem as the zoom lenses announced by both Sony and Zeiss include stabilisation and landscapers probably use a good tripod anyway. I think DK reported that the lack of anti-aliasing filter in the D800E gave extra definition with almost no problems which can be removed on the computer. If the A7R achieves the same then that could be as significant as increasing the Mp count by 50%.

It does raise the question of whether the Alpha mount has a future. Long-term I doubt it but for the moment I can't see Sony dropping it until they have enough glassware in FE-mount. Come to think of it, they have a pretty bizarre line-up of FF Alpha lenses anyway so it might be easier for them to develop a good range of FF E-mount lenses PDQ and then drop the alpha-mount.

It seems to me there are two sets of choices:
1) Do you pay extra for an Alpha mount adaptor? If you are happy with a couple of zooms covering the range 28mm-200mm (or 24mm if you splash out on the Zeiss 24-70) you can manage without the adaptor. Or you can wait to see if Sony announce more lenses reasonably soon.

2) Will you be satisfied with the A7, or do you need/can you afford the A7R?.

I don't see either making significant inroads into the Canon & Nikon user base, but they could occupy or create a few useful niches.

It doesn't affect me as I am still learning to use my A900 which I like very much and I have just bought a NEX7 for when I need something easier to carry around. (n.b. I like it!). For serious action photography the EVF is probably not going to be responsive enough yet to tempt Canon and Nikon users, but when (if?) it is, then the advantages will outweigh the disadvantages and if they can maintain their lead in EVF development then Sony could become seriously competitive. If they still don't get enough market share then maybe they hope to flog the technology to Canikon anyway, which would leave us Sony users in the wilderness, but that's life. I do foresee a somewhat ignominious end for the A99 which for all its merits will priobably be the end of the FF Alpha line and fade away, hardly noticed.

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bakubo
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:26 pm

If I was a serious landscape photographer then the 7r or 7 and some old, good, manual focus lenses would be a nice, fairly small/light combo. For landscape, who cares much about AF and IS? Older MF lenses are smaller/lighter than the new, big AF, IS lenses. If I was into this sort of photography I might get the 7/7r, buy an adaptor or two on ebay, and get some old MF lenses. Sony would sell the body, but not the lenses. Or even better, wait a few months and get a lightly used body for much less from someone.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:48 pm

I'm not buying the RIP A Mount that some suggest, in some ways you could argue it seems that way..but stop and think about it.
These FF bodies could have impact in a few ways, but NOT for most buying into the system.
Leica M mount folks looking for a much more reasonable FF body yes it has fairly big appeal
36mp might tempt a few Canon users who want big res (but again they're not going to be buying into the system mostly re-using their EOS lenses)

If Sony get aggressive on price (think street dropping £200-£300 odd in the next 6 months) it might have some impact on people gagging to get full frame and willing to use adaptors to get there. I expect you can kiss goodbye to the D610's £1699 pre order price (which is good because that's too high) Nikon are dumping D600's at one UK retailer for £1099, the lowest price any FF body has ever been new (take a chance on your oil splat sensor!)

I expect Canikon to respond only in a big way "if" Sony drop prices to start throwing punches at them. 6d price will have to come down, as said D610 too. There might even be a new "yes this really is a budget FF body" forget sealing and mag alloy just a normal DSLR with a FF sensor "at" a cracking price.

Much depends on what Sony do price wise.
I like landscape photography...but I do other types too. Yes this is appealing for Landscape shooters, dig around for some nice FF glass (matters not what mount) AF not important, neither manual aperture. It could get a bit of a pull for these types of shooters.

It won't really have any impact on sports/pro/wedding shooters or systems for obvious reasons it's not that kind of camera (as per camerastore youtube video the shutter is fairly noisy for some reason)

Bottom line is forget about an E mount system..very few people are interested in that. They're interested in the body and shoving their lenses on there
So it comes down to what I said first off...Sony will have a hard time selling E mount lenses for this, so they will have to rely on selling the bodies. I'm not sure that's going to work out for them longer term.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby artington » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:43 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:
... and using a partial plastic mount on bodies this price is really a no go.


Is this correct? The lens mount shown in DPR's preview looks metallic to me.

Seems to me that camera body size is not really an issue for serious landscape photographers, who will be carting lenses including a tilt-shift, a tripod and, of course, Lee filters, so I'm not that clear about the attractions of the A7R for this pursuit and hence cf the A7. However, the ability to have a full frame camera this size which can be used with quality wide-angle legacy lenses like MD, OM, LM, VM etc should be very attractive provided they work ok without colour banding or excessive vignetting. Michael Reichmann's preliminary comments on Luminous Landscape suggests this may well be the case. Furthermore, the larger pixel size of a 24mp FF cf the Nex7 24mp APSC should be helpful for noise. Sounds a cracker for general photography for those of us who have legacy lenses, particularly the small LM, ZM and VM, but, like orhers here, I can't really see it worrying Canon and Nikon much because it won't compete in the specialist landscape, wildlife or sports photography fields.

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby OneGuyKs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:20 pm

artington wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:
... and using a partial plastic mount on bodies this price is really a no go.


Is this correct? The lens mount shown in DPR's preview looks metallic to me.
.


No, he is not correct.

And battery life, though not the highest, is typical for compact EVF cameras. GX7 for example has 350 shots per charge (CIPA) - same as A7s.

Plus there is option that adding the grip on the Sony cameras will double the battery life, 700 shots

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby OneGuyKs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:35 pm

artington wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:
... and using a partial plastic mount on bodies this price is really a no go.


Is this correct? The lens mount shown in DPR's preview looks metallic to me.
.


Plenty about build quality here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfSrsqn3ESc

Wes Gibbon
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Wes Gibbon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:44 pm

artington wrote:
Seems to me that camera body size is not really an issue for serious landscape photographers, who will be carting lenses including a tilt-shift, a tripod and, of course, Lee filters, .


That surprises me. Certainly, if you are taking pictures near a car park you an take a load of equipemtn with you. On the other hand, if you are hiking up a mountain where it will take three hours to reach the summit with an elevation of several thousand feet will you not be seriously concerned about weight? Why did some landscape photographers prefer the Mamiya 7 to an RB67?

Your comment about using legacy glass did remind me that one of the major omissions from the Alpha lens line-up is the lack of a TS lens which maybe an A7+adaptor might address (we hope!).

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bfitzgerald
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:03 pm

OneGuyKs wrote:
artington wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:
... and using a partial plastic mount on bodies this price is really a no go.


Is this correct? The lens mount shown in DPR's preview looks metallic to me.
.


No, he is not correct.

And battery life, though not the highest, is typical for compact EVF cameras. GX7 for example has 350 shots per charge (CIPA) - same as A7s.

Plus there is option that adding the grip on the Sony cameras will double the battery life, 700 shots



Partial plastic mount means ala Dynax 5d, 5 series Sony's and other non 7 series DSLR's etc
The mount tabs are not metal..(least they don't look metal to me!)

Now I don't care too much on a 5 series body, but £1300 I expect a full metal mount


Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (43.27 KiB) Viewed 3756 times



Shutter seems really quite loud too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnvgceTEV3c

I'm not knocking it but it's not the barn storming revolution some were suggesting, might prove popular among MF lens folks looking for a FF body. Can't see FF NEX lenses selling that well though

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artington
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby artington » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:19 pm

Wes Gibbon wrote:
artington wrote:
Seems to me that camera body size is not really an issue for serious landscape photographers, who will be carting lenses including a tilt-shift, a tripod and, of course, Lee filters, .


That surprises me. Certainly, if you are taking pictures near a car park you an take a load of equipemtn with you. On the other hand, if you are hiking up a mountain where it will take three hours to reach the summit with an elevation of several thousand feet will you not be seriously concerned about weight? Why did some landscape photographers prefer the Mamiya 7 to an RB67?

Your comment about using legacy glass did remind me that one of the major omissions from the Alpha lens line-up is the lack of a TS lens which maybe an A7+adaptor might address (we hope!).


What I meant was the ancillary equipment is so (relatively) heavy and bulky that the camera body size / weight becomes ancillary. And, yes, with a suitable shoulder bag they are "hikeable". Others may disagree but I think landscape photography absolutely requires both a tripod and filters regardless as to whether the vista is 100 yards from a car park or several vertical kilometres away.

Notwithstanding my hopes, the comments in the attached link suggests that adapted legacy-glass may not be all it's cracked up to be, which is a shame. It certainly would make one thing twice about using an adapted tilt-shift lens.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.co ... asons.html

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Greg Beetham
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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:59 am

I didn’t find in the specs (unless I missed it) if either camera had an X-sync port, I know if I had too chose between either having an HDMI port or an X-sync port I know which one I’d want.
Designing cameras is a daunting task for sure, but by and large people buy a camera to take photos, not for charging batteries. A camera at those prices without a supplied charger, Sony you have to be kidding.
I’d have to mark them down for not having an onboard flash as well.
I’d have to further mark them down for not having stabilization for its main purpose in life, for use with legacy lenses. (With a means of entering the focal length into the camera).
It’s all very well to say a new direction in cameras is a stroke of marketing genius and will attract lots of buyers, but in order to sell it has to be useful and have some kind of superiority in something to justify its existence, at the moment all these have to offer mainly is reduced size.
If the reduction in size also means a reduction in being useful with some aspects of photography then the whole idea retreats into being a solution to a non-existing problem, an advance sideways, or nor even that.
As for them being good for scenic work, we haven’t seen any image examples yet, so it might pay to wait and see how that turns out with various lenses, maybe even an FE mount lens if one can be found.
Greg

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Re: FF announced

Unread postby Mark K » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:00 am

just ordered an a7. leaving 36MP to alpha bodies :mrgreen:


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