Future of A mount

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
Forum rules
No more than three images or three external links allowed in any post or reply. Please trim quotations and do not include images in quotes unless essential.
User avatar
ValeryD
Viceroy
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Winnipeg
Contact:

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby ValeryD » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:10 am

How deeply you buried the Sony A mount, now I"ll look for a place to bury my ASP A300 to FF A99-2 deeper and go to 3/4 format. :) And I like it.
Although personally I am very pleased with the situation with format A, many lenses and cameras become cheaper, and you can really buy optics online not very expensive optics for excellent Sony cameras.
For Sony, it is very easy with the existing technology to release an A-format camera without a mirror, but this will go down the Sony business model. They make a big profit in mount E for the same or worst lenses.
Last edited by ValeryD on Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Everything in the life unusual!

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:45 pm

When I did a review on a few Minolta lenses, I looked back at the price they were sold at and adjusted the prices for inflation. Even taking into account currency fluctuations and sales taxes (ie VAT in Europe). It was pretty shocking how much over and above modern lenses are, a good 30-40% beyond what inflation would suggest.
If sales are good volumes would increase and you'd think prices would be lower. I'd say relative to any other time I've know -photography is more expensive than it's ever been. Then they wonder why sales have bombed the last 5-6 years and continue to tumble - it's not just phones. Folks are en masse most of them saying "no thanks" to modern photo prices.

I doubt I will ever again buy a new body or lens, regardless of what system I use. As it is, can't see any reason to leave A mount even with inactivity from Sony. Prices are pretty nice even on higher end stuff - if you dig around enough, not hard to find minty items if that's what you want. I say stay put regardless of what happens, bargains galore.

There are probably worse offenders than Sony, E mount is expensive - but wow when I read the release details on Panasonic's new FF lenses. 50mm F1.4 - £2299, 24-105mm F4 £1299, 70-200mm F4 £1749
The 24-105mm is overpriced, but the 50mm is just utterly insane for a 50mm F1.4 - it's also huge and heavy. Seem to remember 70-200mm F2.8's selling for around £1700 - trying to price and F4 zoom at that level is bordering on stupidity. Welcome to mirrorless - the massive profit gouge has just begun!

classiccameras
Viceroy
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:01 am

All things considered, you are better off sticking with your current system and various reasons support that. I have retired my old Olympus E-510 and E-410 as no one wants them, camera shops don't want them and they would probably sell for only a few £ on E Bay, shame really as they had excellent glass.

I shall stay with my Canon DSLR, it does every thing I want it to do, lenses on the used market are cheap, Pixel chasing and the pixel race between manufactures has been the incentive for many to upgrade, but the manufactures must take responsibility for using that as a major selling tactic.
My Panny FZ-330 bridge is great if you want to carry a camera round and nothing else for a day out

I'm not sure now what kind of markets the camera industry are now chasing, but its becoming more and more elitist as prices go up, all they are doing is making potential customers stay with their Phones for their photographic needs or phone users are not bothering to move up to a camera. I have an Olympus EM-10 Mk 1 bought on a whim when they first came out thinking I could build a system round it, no that never happened, great camera, great pictures, but so fiddly to use, its just too cramped , I was not enjoying a day out with it, so that might go,

I actually yearn for an A37 again with just a simple kit zoom, they were so easy to use, although I was never that in love with Sony colours, but they can be tweaked, For my type of Photography, which is predominately Jpegs but some RAW, I found 16 Mp on the Sony A-37 was fine as is the 18 mp on the Canon 650D

E mount is just crazy, less said the better and now we have the full frame race in full swing which means even dearer

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:39 am

One things that puzzles me is, if Sony put half the effort into A mount they did with E mount (FF), they'd have all the benefits of the SLR form factor, with the up to date phase AF off the sensor (get rid of the SLT). Not that hard to do, and it would stop people using Canon lenses on E Mount (and a lot do)
Strange to buy a system, then let it wither away. Bar UWA lens designs being easier - there are no obvious other advantages to mirrorless. Sure they are small, but you can make a small A mount body fairly easily - and one you might want to use for any length of time. No point to mirrorless IMO if it's more expensive, smaller bodies but bigger lenses (so overall not smaller and lighter at all)
It's even more baffling, if they've lost interest in A Mount - why they don't do a real adapter without the limitations of the current ones. Surely when Canon get up to speed - that's going to kill off EOS mount users moving to Sony.

Stocks seem to be low on some items - some lenses are special order (not exotic ones either), A77II is out of stock most places (some sites say it's on order). It does seem they are "running it down". If so then the s/h market will drop even more - I feel for those who bought say the A99II, a hefty investment - Sony have really let their users down IMO.

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:32 am

Wonder if this guy has still got all this gear :mrgreen:
f95619eb9baa4b4e966a54d3952c11a2.jpg
(670.18 KiB) Not downloaded yet

classiccameras
Viceroy
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:37 pm

Wow, what a collection, any body tried to cost it. Smaller is the new format, they are all gradually coming to the party, Canon may be the one to watch in the future, there is an awful lot of Canon fans globally in the consumer/enthusiast market who may well switch to the M series, but I think Canon at the moment are treading along carefully to see what develops. Nikon don't seem that committed 'yet',
Sony could easily down size the A mount bodies, may be with the A55/A37 bodies as a starting point. Most Canon and especially Nikon bodies at enthusiast level are a good deal smaller than Sony A mount bodies. Sony have not kept their eye on the ball, There's no doubt that Sony care a whole lot more for their E mount systems at the expense of A mount. There's only so much loyalty you can dedicate to a brand,

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:05 pm

I don't mind smaller, to a degree that is. The film 7 remains perfect size for me, I find the A99 a bit on the big side - but can't complain, prices are dropping quite nicely on that camera body. As they are even on some of the more premium lenses out there. That photo shows extreme "gear overload" I think ;-) Doubt anyone would on a regular basis use all of that gear - quite a hefty investment. The smaller mirrorless size to me is, almost completely wiped out with modern lens designs. Sigma are major offenders, huge massive heavy lenses - and they all look exactly the same with their dust magnet fine ribs. It's quite odd to see such a lack of innovation from lens maker. The concept of small light primes has completely been lost for FF lenses.

classiccameras
Viceroy
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:39 pm

Sigma make 3 high quality primes in E and M/4/3 mounts at very reasonable prices, they get good reviews and are smooth bodied. Sigma and Tamron are stuck in the old 35-mm days of design and size. Its pretty obvious that the camera and lens makers are putting more emphasis on video users than still photography which can be seen in the array of huge focal range of some zooms. The Canon STM range zooms are aimed at the radiographers with the silent step motor.
As for the lenses especially zooms supplied for E mount, they are an expensive joke and completely wipes out the mirrorless compact concept

Coming back to the A Mount, when that was the system I was using, I was interested in upgrading to the A65,, it got high marks in reviews but ironically the A68 was not quite as good according to several review sites, However, it did go against my concept of go smaller, did you have an opinion on these 2 models

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:45 pm

I think there are a number of inevitable "design" issues with lenses. Be it SLR or Mirrorless.
I'm no expert but moving to in lens motors/built in IS/electronic aperture (ie motors) - you're just not going to get 35mm rangefinder sized optics. Unless you go with manual everything - which isn't a problem for some types of lenses.
I expect the reason for "bigger" lenses is that plus -trying to compensate for increased vignetting with the shorter distance to the sensor, ie increased angle of light. Even with offset micro lenses it's certainly stronger than the longer SLR design. Evidently UWA lenses are quite a bit easier to design with mirrorless, but apart from that and being able to mount other lenses...doesn't seem to be any other plus points - lens size ain't one of them. Many are larger and heavier than SLR lenses.

You have to be careful with measuring sites. DxO use rather crude methods from what I have read. Their DR range test is a hole cut in a bit of wood/card! It's not quite as scientific as they might make out. Despite their figures I've years of use on the A57 and A77, and I can say 100% that the high ISO of the A77 isn't better than the A57, which goes against the DxO figures. My tests were identical lenses, matching exposures, adjusting for ISO variance. The A57 is slightly better, not hugely but it is. All the 3 SLT bodies I have expose differently, show different ISO values. The A77 is closest to actual ISO than the others - it just underexposes in low light (and in general) - hence the reason it got a ribbing for bad low light performance. Being a stop under is a disaster at ISO 1600/3200/6400, once you adjust that the situation is much more bearable. Simple fix is use exp comp or use CW metering.

A68 I have used, it isn't a camera that interests me much. It's a weird mash up of bits of the A58 crammed into an A77 series body with a low grade plastic finish/mount. Is it awful - no at the right super knock down price it's a workable machine. EVF is smaller, LCD is not great, raw buffer is small (only a bit bigger than the A58). It does have the new AF, an OK jpeg buffer, some of the newer video features zebras etc, and most of the customisation with AF fine tune which is very unusual for a cheaper body. At a blow out/ex demo price it might be worth a look for users who have a fair few lenses around, otherwise you might be better off with the A77II s/h.

I never used the A65, from what I can see it's the A57 with a better EVF, 24mp and GPS. The GPS would interest me, but I have 2 cameras with it already. It's cheap enough now as it's getting older, so is the A57 which is one of the better buys for A mount on the used market. I still use mine regularly it's not a bad machine. On A Mount anything at the right price can become interesting, I never l planned to get an A99 - but one came along at the right price. I'd get another one no problem - warts and all it's a bargain

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:58 am

Just a quick note on the Sigma/Tamron lens situation. Having used a few of the more recent ones -and quite a lot of the older ones.
People might be clamoring for them on mirrorless systems -because the cost of native OEM lenses are so high. Here I'm thinking of the E mount Tamron 28-75mm F2.8, the new 17-28mm F2.8. But these are not nearly as bargain as Tamron used to be.
They even jacked up the price of the 28-75mm due to demand. It's about £740. The 17-28mm Is about £900. You could argue it's less painful then the 24-70mm F2.8 G Master at £1700, or the 16-35 F2.8 being a nuts £2000+ - but third party lenses are not nearly the bargain they used to be.

The original 90mm macro was about £300 odd, the latest version fetches double that price tag £600. Ok it's sealed, better build, built in AF motor if you care -to me that's not worth double the price. Same with the 24-70mm G2 Tamron, yeah it's nice and a fair bit less than the OEM makers, the previous version is £550 odd, optically there isn't a lot of difference to justify the near £1000 price tag. Sigma have a bunch of lenses, same thing fairly expensive, large and heavy. Again for mirrorless users they might be appealing. Situation with A Mount is - buying new third party lenses isn't worth it. I only have the Tamron 17-50mm left and the Tokina 11-16 (Sony never offered anything like that for A mount users). I may replace the Tamron at some point - prices fell so much on other lenses I replaced them with Minolta versions. We are indeed in crazy times. Latest shipments from CIPA show another big drop for cameras and lenses...no shocks there.

User avatar
bakubo
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 5696
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:55 am
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:18 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:I only have the Tamron 17-50mm left and the Tokina 11-16 (Sony never offered anything like that for A mount users).


I used to have the Sony 11-18mm to use with my A700.

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 pm

bakubo wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:I only have the Tamron 17-50mm left and the Tokina 11-16 (Sony never offered anything like that for A mount users).


I used to have the Sony 11-18mm to use with my A700.


Thing is that lens is the only one ever offered for APS-C users for an UWA zoom. Which is a bit odd, considering it was a re-badged Tamron, which was previously re-badged by Konica Minolta. There was no way I would have bought that over the Tokina, another case of if you don't make it people can't buy it. If Sony had come up with something new, I'd have looked at it, didn't have to be F2.8 constant -but they didn't for reasons unknown.

classiccameras
Viceroy
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:13 am

I think Sony have scored an own goal with the E mount system, the market is shrinking for E mount because of cost, Some of the A mount CZ zoom lenses are made by Tamron, Tokina were under a different name back in the 35-mm days, which I forget, may have been Cosina, but they were considered low end, they have certainly moved on from that. Most of my early photography with SLR's was with prime lenses and zooms were not that common.

User avatar
bfitzgerald
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 3689
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:11 pm

classiccameras wrote:I think Sony have scored an own goal with the E mount system, the market is shrinking for E mount because of cost, Some of the A mount CZ zoom lenses are made by Tamron, Tokina were under a different name back in the 35-mm days, which I forget, may have been Cosina, but they were considered low end, they have certainly moved on from that. Most of my early photography with SLR's was with prime lenses and zooms were not that common.


Sony seem to have all the "big influencers" in the bag. Every time a new E mount product is released, the usual suspects whip it up into a frenzy. This time though, having watched the live stream - I detected a distinct lack of excitement from the crowd. Despite Mark Weir trying his best to do a Steve Jobs, it fell flat. Sounds of awkward minor clapping from those present.
61mp doesn't interest me, nor does the same body, lengthy menus which need a workover, lack of S/M raw.

I did see the 35mm FE F1.8 announced at a £630 price point. We are now in the age of nuts lens prices, unfortunately. I'm sure Sony are doing well enough with E Mount, for now. Situation in 4-5 years might be very different. The market gets smaller every month, they jack up prices to try to compensate, market keeps shrinking. Cycle continues to repeat...
At some point it will bottom out, sales are so low v even 5-6 years ago - and awful if you rewind 10 years - one wonders if there will be much of a camera industry left.

classiccameras
Viceroy
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:38 pm

I'm kind of going backwards not forwards with my kit, all built from yesteryear models and lenses, its foolish to keep up with the Jones's unless of course that's your thing. I think we will witness some pretty serious consolidations in the camera industry and may be some surprising amalgamations in the future and that probably won't be that far off


Return to “Alpha A-mount System”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron