Service manual for Sony A850 Online @ Sony HK

[PongoAlpha]

Perhaps Grand Caliph is right about Sony having it right, IMO serious photgraphers like us make up less than 1% of Sonys' customers base, whereas with Nikon & Canon it is probably 5% or more.

So the more Sony make their SLR's handle like P&S compacts the more customers Sony will get, don't underestimate them they are not the most succesfull consumers electronics company for nothing. After all they are only in it for the money..

We used to complain about them but oh how nice it would be to have Minolta back.

Regards Paul.

[bfitzgerald]

So the more Sony make their SLR's handle like P&S compacts the more customers Sony will get, don't underestimate them they are not the most succesfull consumers electronics company for nothing. After all they are only in it for the money..
We used to complain about them but oh how nice it would be to have Minolta back.
Regards Paul.

It is yet to be decided if making low end DSLR's more "compact like" works or not, I'll put money down that it won't (Canon have managed rather well without it)

As for Sony, and being the most successful consumer electronics company, I would have agreed with you up to the mid to late 1990's, but times have changed. Sony did well back then, and could carry a premium with the "Sony = better quality"
But they came under great pressure from some other makers, esp one Korean company in particular..that was nowhere, but now has mostly a very good rep, and holds far more market share than Sony for TV's (one of their staple hardcore areas) Sony withdrew from computer monitors, they also have struggled in their previous very successful area, video game consoles, the PS3 has not done anywhere near as well as rivals. Too late, priced too high, and beaten out by a "new concept" inferior spec machine (wii)

It's not all doom and gloom, Sony can do great things, the walkman was one..but like other makers, Apple caught them with their pants down (ipod, huge success) Larger volumes, and less margins on many products (look at the cost of a half decent hi fi 15 years ago, and now..much cheaper) Sony need to adapt to that, or face a tough time. DSLR land is a very unique market as well, I don't believe a cybershot strategy is appropriate for this market, or will work.

There will always be an element of wanting Minolta back, for some of us, however we have to move with the times, or find another maker! I for one hope Sony can find a bit of that Minolta (being different, and cameras made by photographers, for photographers), fairy dust magic back, we'll see on that one.

[Mike]

I suspect that for every DSLR that Sony sells to someone that ever takes it out of Program Mode, they sell 20 to people that either use it once a year on vacation or use it till the baby is 6 months old and then get tired of carrying it and switch to their cell phone. Serious photographers should be thankful that the high end models are subsidized by the low end models otherwise they would be much more expensive. I'm surprised at how many people assume that the purpose of the new models is to add features. I'm betting that the new models are designed to reduce production costs not to add features. In fact, I bet $799 by buying an a700, display clearance, that the replacement for the a700 will not be as well made.

Mike

[bfitzgerald]

You cannot seriously suggest that newer models should be "worse" than older ones. That flies in the face of the entire camera industry, even back to film days. Browse about, look at the later cheaper film bodies (film 5 a good example), albeit yes with cheaper build, but it outgunned even higher end older models features/spec wise in many places.
Time moves on, technology improves, esp notable was autofocus, and the move from single point, to multi point AF systems.
Also the profit margins on lower end bodies are clearly very much lower than high end ones. So I cannot agree lower end buyers help keep costs down on high end bodies.

[Mike]

You cannot seriously suggest that newer models should be "worse" than older ones.

I didn't suggest that the new models "should be" anything. I simply pointed out the reality that the driving force behind the new models is not to add new features it's to reduce production cost. The trend is smaller, lighter, less expensive materials. Some technological improvements are bound to be included since the hardware and firmware have continued to evolve and can be incorporated at no additional costs. To see this simply compare an a350 with an a380. There is no way to confirm it but I would bet that Sony is losing money on every a700 and a900 while it makes while they make a small profit the millions of Cyber-shot Cameras that they sell for $200 each at WalMart.

Only time will tell but I predict the a700 and a900 are discontinued within a year.

[bfitzgerald]

What technological improvements do we see in the A380 v A350 then?
The A850 appears to be the same weight as the A900, and the same size

That's not playing out with the "smaller" strategy you suggest.
If sony keep bashing out non updates, they won't win many fans!
DSLR can only get so small, then you get into EP-1 or G1 type cameras, which frankly I would have little interest in.

Ironic, but I see some A700 users complaining now, that they are left out of the mix..they want APS, 5fps or more (even 7-8fps) think D300s spec. Now they know the situation with current A200-350 users, who expected "updated/improved" and got worse all round

Sony do have some odd ideas, and sometimes they have decent ones, we'll see how much this A850 is price wise, then we can comment with more accuracy. But I don't expect anything amazing on that front, this is a company that is notoriously out of touch with it's user base.

[alphaomega]

Sonolta wrote:

Since I ain't seeing what I need in the alpha lineup I may be putting my 6K in Alpha kit up on ebay!

I can actually see Sonolta doing just that at some stage as things evolve just now. The Pentax K7 spec. looks impressive. It looks to me as if for more seasoned photographers the combination of Pentax and Samsung leads to a better APS-C camera outcome than Sony/Minolta. At my age I really do not want to get involved in a switch of systems. I am actually pondering the sale of my A700 and a couple of lenses to my son and the purchase of a new A700 for just over £500. This camera in v.4 will do what I require from a DSLR and I am now familiar with its operation. I have little faith in the A500/550 bringing to the party new innovations that will substantially benefit me. I do not need video and I suspect Sony will use a combination of sensors from their current 10/12 and 14Mp range. A new A550 will probably be priced around £1000. The £450/500 saved could be used to purchase a new lens.
That A850 does not seem to make sense to me. I cannot se a price much lower than the current A900 as it would then be almost as cheap as an expected price for the A550 and whatever is said some of the key components of a FF camera are substantially dearer than APS-C. For a start the FF sensor is around three times as expensive as APS-C mainly because of around 50% rejections. If it has less noise at higher ISOs it is mostly for sports and wildlife. Why then reduce shooting rate from 5 to 3 fps? Maybe it is me who cannot work out the benefits.

[bfitzgerald]

Let's be honest, it would have been very easy for sony to update the A700, AF adjustments, maybe sensor based LV, up the fps a bit, beef up the AF too. Job done, not that hard really, they have a decent body design (the odd tweak here and there)
Why risk losing APS users??

I am all for FF, but I do accept some are into faster more pro level APS cameras as well,

Sometimes you wonder if Sony are driven by strange forces They take too many chances, where being reliable really can work wonders.