Sony looks to change the world of DSLRs - Masashi 'Tiger' Im

[Scooterman]

If the Pentax AF was as good as you make out I would still be using it now,
My finding were that the better new Pentax SDM lenses were slower focusing than with screw drive, where as the Sony SSM is fast, the screw drive focusing system is far superior so powerful in fact that Sigma older lenses suffer breakages in the gearing.
I know that now doing my Bird life and macro shots and may be some architectural work this summer. My A-580 with my Sigma 100-300 F4 or Tamron 200-500 for the birds and Tokina 11-16 f2.8 for the wide angle stuff. And for macro I have the Sony 100mmf2.8 and a Tamron 90mm f 2.8.
If I could work out how to put quality images on the forum I would show you how much I like the system for my type of photography.
Richard

[calpon]

It's a business, not a service to enthusiast photographer's. You never seem to understand this. The only way to get to 20% and more is by changing the game.

They should concentrate on making exceptionally good well designed DSLR cameras the A700 deserves another crack not SLT but DSLR using a good 100% VF and a robust feature set to compete with rivals. Sony risk losing a significant number of users who are not that interested in SLT and replacing them with users who mostly don't invest in a system heavily. That's a poor business choice in my books.

I am not a critic of Barry (not a Barry cheerleader either) because he makes many relevant points as well as ones that make me scratch my head. I see that we (and Sony ) need to look at many view points. We don't want all fanboys or all bashers, do we?

His quote above is, to me, very ironic because he has not invested in anything Sony. If they are chasing down the Barry's of the world, they would already be out of business. The other posters and the DK's (and other reviewers) of the world who have extensively used these products have an understanding of the capabilities of these tools and can give more reliable and relevant opinions. Going to the store and taking a few test shots does not = a true test of a cameras abilities. One has to get used to the new tool before you can even put it through its paces. Some can do this rapidly and others may take several days of shooting, but either way it has to be done in a way that the tool would be used by the one testing it, be it in the studio or out shooting landscapes or wildlife. I gather not many spend there time shooting shoppers at the mall all day long

I went to a local store and had a play with an A33 and didn't find that is was anything less than any other camera. The only REAL difference was the VF, but I didn't see this as "bad". The only way for me to find out if I can adapt to it is to give it a good use. As soon as I get one and use it for a spell, I'll do what many others have done here and elsewhere on the net....I will give my opinion of my experience with the tool.

I would like for Barry to do this as well because he may change his mind or he may not. Either way, we will get an opinion based on his results with these tools. Without him (or any other poster) using the tools in his/her environment, I cannot take that opinion seriously. I find the dissenting opinion just as valuable (if not more) than the favorable opinion.

So this is CLEAR.... I am not meaning to bash Barry (it does get old doesn't it?), I am "throwing down the gauntlet" to Barry to give it a go with an A55 for a week or 2 because I want to hear his opinion after he lives with it for a couple of weeks in his routine. Anyone live close enough to Barry for him to try it.....How about renting it for a spell? Buy it and return it if you don't like it? Sony send him one?

[Scooterman]

What I can do now with my Sony kit I could not do with other kit, try it if you do not believe me Barry, I can now shoot macro hand held bees in flight birds in flight and get them sharp because the AF system does not fail me, also the metering on this camera is on of the best I have used, very rarely this fails also plenty of detail in highlights and shadows.
I would have bought the A-55 as well but in my hands it is far too small, now if Sony made a larger A-55 I would have one, I can wait!
Also if Pentax had to rely on your type of business they would now be calling in the receivers.
I want to see a competitive market in photography gear it makes for better choice and prices and Choice is the main word I have chosen to use Sony it works for me, I am still a member of the Pentax user forum but no longer submit on there, I do keep in contact with other members though, I just lurk on there at times to see how it is going.

[bfitzgerald]

calpon first impressions can be misleading I'll accept that and having a grab of an A55 in a shop is nowhere near enough to write an article on it or make up even a basic review which I have not intended to do.
It's well known I don't really like EVF's I've used some before and don't really get along with them. But the EVF is only one side of the coin with the A55 it's just not my kinda camera I want to dive into deep menus set up the camera to my own shooting style and nothing A mount currently offers anywhere near that.

Folks can say a lot of things but if I and other members of this forum and other ones had a hand in these cameras a lot of mistake would have been avoided, the Bionz NR that probably seriously damaged the a700 sales (and taking far to long to fix it via fw), the downgrading of the entry models, the lack of customisation, a proper ring flash all of that would have been addressed. But it's up to Sony what they do of course I am disappointed in their direction maybe it's just great for some folks. It's a shame as I have a decent and perfectly respectable collection of A mount equipment and believe me I'd rather not start from scratch again.

[Scooterman]

calpon first impressions can be misleading I'll accept that and having a grab of an A55 in a shop is nowhere near enough to write an article on it or make up even a basic review which I have not intended to do.
It's well known I don't really like EVF's I've used some before and don't really get along with them. But the EVF is only one side of the coin with the A55 it's just not my kinda camera I want to dive into deep menus set up the camera to my own shooting style and nothing A mount currently offers anywhere near that.

Folks can say a lot of things but if I and other members of this forum and other ones had a hand in these cameras a lot of mistake would have been avoided, the Bionz NR that probably seriously damaged the a700 sales (and taking far to long to fix it via fw), the downgrading of the entry models, the lack of customisation, a proper ring flash all of that would have been addressed. But it's up to Sony what they do of course I am disappointed in their direction maybe it's just great for some folks. It's a shame as I have a decent and perfectly respectable collection of A mount equipment and believe me I'd rather not start from scratch again.

Ok Barry you are disappointed with Sony, I was with the Canon 7D and other kit, now you have made a choice and bought what you think is ok for what you do, and best of luck to you.
I will wait for what ever the next camera body that Sony brings out for us then I will decide if it is what I want or not, at the moment I am very happy with the results that I get with my kit if it be a £600 camera or one that cost £1200, I shoot raw and then do slight adjustments in Photoshop, I have to do far less with the Sony shots than I did with the 7D also I have far more “keepers” than I did before.
Ps check K mount rumours Pentax are thinking about a mirrorless body
Regards
Richard

[mike2008]

There is no slump Nikon are probably getting the factory to work over time and double shifts to meet demands!
Mike you continue to insist you are right yet we see on DPR yet another long term Sony user (Richard) who wants an OVF DSLR abandon ship and buy..erm well a D7000!

Sony can't afford to lose users such as this by not offering what could be an easy update to the A700..beef up the AF, tweak the design, more sealing, juice up the fps, nice 100% OVF (with a full time ISO display) deep customisation, proper jpeg NR control, add a good video mode with manual controls, live view. They'd have an instant hit on their hands and users would be super happy.

In response to DK IR's tests are simply that a test and obviously you make some very reasonable points. I simply state that the posters comments above are simply not accurate if both the Sony and Pentax versions are screw drive I'd say that's a reasonable level playing field comparing them. Even on the K-x I notice the "film 7" like micro adjustments and quickly to AF that I don't on the 5d and A200.

I never said there was a slump, on the contrary the whole market is growing for dslr. If sony wanted to stay at 5-10% market share they coudl do it, no problem. The issue is that they want 20+ %.

Sony can completely afford to lose some enthusiast customers, with no problem at all, if they can 10 new ones for each one they lose.

[agorabasta]

I stated that there's a slump in D7000 sales. Just check the link Greg posted, and then check the most current data from the same site. And then there are the Japanese figures posted above in this thread by alphaomega http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcatego ... month.html.
That D7000 is not a popular item, quite definitely; the K-5 is even less so.

[David Kilpatrick]

I suspect the sales of the K-5 and D7000 - both very good cameras - are affected by their price bracket which is roughly 2X the price of the A580. Son Richard is buying a D7000 - but selling his D3S. He loves the D3S, but right now it's worth premium money for a camera which can't shoot HD1080p video. He has become a Certified Phase One Operator (valid for three years), and will be using a Phase One medium format camera for the next year at least, available as an assistant or technical operator on a day-rate to professional shooting with hired Phase One gear. The D3S and lenses are worth a significant chunk of the P1 lease costs, the D7000 will do everything needed in the 35mm format domain.

David

[agorabasta]

David, quite surely the pricing affects the sales; but there are two issues with that - first, the sales of D7000 were much higher right upon introduction; second, the D7000 is already priced very low for what that camera really is. It's a very fine camera, but it's a total no-thrill in popular perception.
And the K-5 is more expensive yet, and is an even more total no-thrill item...

[bfitzgerald]

agorabasta the figures are for Japan only unless I am mistaken? In which case I'm sure you will find the D7000 selling very well indeed in the USA (strong market for Nikon) and Europe.

However not that great it is currently at in those charts 2 things spring to mind 1: It's placed higher than the SLT A55 2: It will mostly likely climb up considerably (as it's only recently been available)

I've not tried one but I can see some weaker points esp as they ergo carried over from the D90 I agree with those who say the metering button near the shutter could be put to better use (ISO) and the WB and ISO buttons on the left hand side are not optimal either. Apart from those points and possibly the buffer being a bit small for this class it's pretty strong overall.

All the talk I see suggests the A77 won't be around until the end of the year more time to lose ground to other makers who already have products "out there right now" to buy. The whole thing is taking far too long to arrive unless Sony manage a summer release.

[agorabasta]

Barry, you didn't read all of my post. Anyway, here's the US data based on Amazon sales (same source as Greg linked above) - http://www.dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php ... igital_slr, and the D7000 has been going down the list all the time since introduction...

[bfitzgerald]

I suspect they are not updating it properly because a quick visit to Amazon USA shows the D7000 at tenth spot (and indicates it's climbed recently)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/ph ... PQDPZVVZ#1

[Greg Beetham]

Economic conditions are still playing a part in the US I think, the number of people with spare cash to buy expensive cameras is probably not as great as it was before the downturn. But even so the D7000 (a $1500 US camera) is at No.16 trending up, and the A55 ($950 US) is at No.33 spot trending down.
So even though the D7000 is MUCH more expensive and doesn't have any thrill factor it's outselling the A55 by a handsome margin.
Greg

[Heidfirst]

I think that you'll find that Amazon isn't a good indicator of overall DSLR sales & certainly not on an hourly basis - it's too focused ( a bit like "can't see the wood for the trees").
Similarly, the Japanese camera market is unique & you can't infer global sales from looking at their results.

[alphaomega]

I looked at Amazon.com (Barry's link) and clicked on the Hot New Releases tab
http://www.amazon.com/gp/new-releases/p ... d_ts_p_mte
Here Nikon's D7000 is top followed by D60 and then A580 with the 18-55. A55 is listed at 16. It also has a later release date. I think that Sony have themselves admitted that they are weak in USA. Their stronger markets appear to be in some European countries and Asia. I just wonder what Sony will do if they find that the A580 outsells their A55? Keep playing in both markets or putting more marketing effort behind SLT?