Sony looks to change the world of DSLRs - Masashi 'Tiger' Im

[WaltKnapp]

So I think it is probably fair to predict that the A700 successor will be more an A77 SLT type than A750 OVF or whatever. So I don't think that the DSLR supporters will be happy. Walt has got enough A700s to keep him happy and Barry is on his way to Pentax, but the rest will have to make up their minds. I for one do not care as my A580 will do me fine and my focus is now on expanding my NEX system with a NEX-7 or whatever (hopefully with an EVF thrown in) and light tele/Wide angle zooms of one kind or another. DSLR quality with almost P&S volume and weight (near enough). I am sure that over the next year or two Sony will deliver the goods I desire.

I would not say I have enough a700s to keep me happy for the rest of my life, which is where Sony is leaving me.

After having one have to be rebuilt when only barely over a year old, and what broke, I've lowered my expectations on how long my a700s will last. I cannot count on any farther than Sony will supply parts, which according to their parts commitment is now about 5 years. Sony says they will have parts for any camera only for 7 years after the last camera is produced, which is quite a ways back for the a700 now.

What is really funny is how many guess that Sony will deliver their inflated expectations or better. When so often in their production of new DSLR models they have delivered less rather than more. And at this point we are dealing with a untried design over the long term in the SLT. And mixing in the compromises to still photography that video emphasis entails as well. It's not a good time for A mount still photographers looking for top end equipment from Sony.

I've predicted for some time there will be no OVF DSLR replacement for the a700, far, far too much from Sony saying that and saying so with ever increasing frequency. Not a matter of emotions, it's cold hard analysis of what Sony is doing and saying that leads to that. The sort of analysis one has to do when managing a very expensive photography system. I do still give a very slight possability that Sony might reverse themselves on this, but that's what it would take, quite a significant reversal even to do as I've suggested, three lines of interchangable lens cameras, NEX, SLT, and OVF DSLR. Each of which will suit part of the market.

Walt

[alphaomega]

Well, here is another item that would support the OVF DSLR cry if DxOmark were rated as reliable and realistic. Latest on Sonyalpharumors.com

DxOmark: The Sony A580 is much better than the Sony A55!!!

So, Sony you have got a problem matching the A55 with the A580 for still image quality. Watch out or your competitors will get better results from Sony's own sensors. As David said (I think) any differences are not detectable in the real world, but there you are. My own view is that people like Walt Knapp will potentially have a problem (investment wise) with Sony's development plans, whereas for my type of photography I will be OK. I just do not think that Sony's market research (if they do any) would flag up people like Walt as a sufficiently big market to justify a traditional type semi-professional DSLR wit a good OVF.

[David Kilpatrick]

Here's my take on it after using A55 and A580 for a couple of months. I am not trying to hand the A55 to Shirley and grab the A580, rather the other way round. She prefers the optical finder and likes the occasional ability to use the rear screen for difficult situations. She does not shoot video but it's good to have a second video camera, or a video facility if we want to travel with only the larger (a900/580) battery size.

Shooting video with the camera to the eye, as with the A55, is so much easier despite so many modern camcorders relying on screen composition. I do shoot video and having this choice makes the A55 significantly more versatile. Also, I shoot video at music events and like the old KM A2 the A55 provides a bright clear focusing view of surprisingly dark subjects and is less obtrusive. It also happens to have about the best stereo sound quality of all the DSLR/SLT/NEX models - probably excluding the VGA-10 which I have not tried.

Ironically it's in Walt's field that the A55 really wins, with optical systems of very low aperture. The post today about using the 500mm with converter drove that home. It's actually a useful lens on the A55 mainly because you can see to focus. Extended bellows micro lens macro, and microscope shots, also work well. The same goes for rear screen focusing and composition on the A580 too but once again, the dual finder is a bonus.

If they stick to the SLT design for the A77 but make some major improvements in the shutter, along with expected upgrades to the finder and controls and build, I will find that a very attractive camera. Indeed, if the concept had come from Canon or Nikon I'd be saying - 'why didn't Sony think of that?'. The ultimate for me would be a shutterless camera, with the mechanical operation eliminated entirely allowing totally silent capture. The difference made at wedding ceremonies, quiet concerts, in meetings or during events filmed by TV or on movie sets would be groundbreaking. Such a camera would become an industry standard for several types of work. But I fear they can't or won't do this yet, and we will once again have a mechanical shutter.

David

[agorabasta]

Aperture blades don't move silently... There are lenses noisier than a55 shutter.

[Greg Beetham]

The A55 would probably do macro and extreme macro very well in theory, but in practise it might fall short if the battery life is not very good and the flash compatibility is questionable, someone will have to do some tests with one to find out just how useful it is for night macro work out in the field.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Question is does you need an electronic VF and back LCD at the same time? As DK says handy for video no question. For macro though well it's pretty much standard now on all DSLR's to have live view off the back LCD (bar Sony's entry models and current FF ones ironic isn't it?)

As a lot of macro work might be tripod based I think live view works fairly well for that field even with slow ish AF you can either flip flap the mirror to AF or use the MF view to get very accurate focus. In the past I've not been sold on live view but I have warmed up to it a bit. Question is do you want live view VF and LCD personally I like a bit of variety myself.

[Lonnie Utah]

Question is does you need an electronic VF and back LCD at the same time?

Yes. For times where it is too bright to effectively use the lcd.

[Scooterman]

I got quite excited looking at the Amateur Photographer magazine cover this week.
Across the top was the headline “Sony’s Replacement for the A-700” then you read the inside and all it was the old news?
Some of the magazines are now getting more like the rubbish sector daily news papers anything to sell copy.
Richard

[bakubo]

Yes, if an EVF can be integrated into a compact body then that would be preferable to a klunky, awkward, catch-on-everything external EVF.

[Edgars L]

The ultimate for me would be a shutterless camera, with the mechanical operation eliminated entirely allowing totally silent capture. The difference made at wedding ceremonies, quiet concerts, in meetings or during events filmed by TV or on movie sets would be groundbreaking. Such a camera would become an industry standard for several types of work. But I fear they can't or won't do this yet, and we will once again have a mechanical shutter.

After Photokina in last year was interview with some Sony representative and he told that Sony didn't have technologies for CMOS sensor global readout and unfortunately it will be not possible for some future years. If I remember, new Sony cinema FF camera has CCD with global readout.
Mark Weir in recent interview didn't answer on basically the same question, however there was interesting answer about shutters:
"Well, obviously there are some mechanical limitations to mechanically operated systems. We've managed to bypass the mechatronics of a moving mirror system with SLT, but there are other mechanical systems to deal with, with SLRs. There's the focal plane shutter, there's the activation of the iris -- there are other mechanisms which will need to be improved to get through that performance barrier of ten frames per second with continuous AF. But suffice it to say, we are looking at the kinds of technology that will be required to continuously increase the operational speed of a digital SLR. I think we have some technologies coming that will be very impressive to many people, very soon."

[pakodominguez]

Sony could make a body exactly the same size as the NEX, with a small eyepiece on the very far left corner (remember, no parallax- does not matter where you put the eyepiece, does not have to be 'over the lens') and maybe a 1cm forward or rear protrusion at the most - no deeper than the NEX-5 handgrip.

I do agree about the EVF for the NEX, but I'm not that sure it will really have space with the actual configuration. I hope next NEX model, 5 or 7 class, will find a solution.

Regards

[David Kilpatrick]

They will almost certainly have electronic soft-irised lenses. The appropriate element might need some effectively invisible 'wiring' to the centre and might, like many video lenses, need to have a small opaque central spot (which does rather destroy the bokeh). But at some point a variable aperture, probably without a hard edge and probably perfectly circular, will be created electronically in a clear element.

David

[Greg Beetham]

I wonder how much it will cost?
Greg

[agorabasta]

A global shutter with CMOS is just as possible as it is with CCD. With either tech they need some intermediate place to store the charge from photocells for the future readout. With the CCD it requires space for the blind cells where the charge is shifted synchronously right after the exposure; and with CMOS they could do the same or form a capacitor taking about the same space. The light loss would be about the same for the larger APS/FF sensels with the both kinds of tech.

But with CMOS there is a possibility to use a modified backlit design and move those temporary storage capacitors to the dark side. They would need to solve the problem of making a large backlit sensor physically stronger since the current small backlit CMOS sensors are too thin and fragile.
And it's quite possible to make a thicker backlit sensor if they leave some minimum wiring on the lit backside and drive the wires through some fine holes in the thick silicon bulk to the other side. This can be done, it's no magic at all; but the fabs need a new process fully developed for that.

[WaltKnapp]

Ironically it's in Walt's field that the A55 really wins, with optical systems of very low aperture. The post today about using the 500mm with converter drove that home. It's actually a useful lens on the A55 mainly because you can see to focus. Extended bellows micro lens macro, and microscope shots, also work well. The same goes for rear screen focusing and composition on the A580 too but once again, the dual finder is a bonus.
David

David, the thing you forget is that I shoot living subjects at those fine macro scales. Tracking a pinhead size tick running across the substrate with a macro bellows lens at some magnification handheld and such is just routine part of my work. Focus even in a dim viewfinder is not the problem you are representing for me.

I have, as I did before getting the a700, carted bunches of gear into the store and put the a55 through it's paces as much as is possible under such circumstances. And to put it quite simply it would make my task far tougher if possible at all. The problem is the large offset of viewfinder location of the subject vs actual location in the frame. That is far greater with the a55 vs the a700.

And, btw, what applies in high magnification macro also applies at the long tele end too. I do rapidly moving live subjects there too, along with plenty of other wildlife shooters. Can't see to shoot? I do middle of the night wildlife photography, often of moving subjects. And have been doing so since before digital cameras even existed. Including getting sharp focus.

And microscopes? You do not have problems with low light in microscopes with properly set up kohler illumination. Not even in my hand held field microscope which uses a mini mag light as it's light source.

The bottom line is if I'm forced to do it I can probably force a SLT to work for me. Some shooting will just have to be abandoned, all shooting in this area will be accompanied with much more bad language and dwindling success rates. I am a very capable photographer in this area with a lifetime of experience so can shoot where it's very hard to shoot. But I most certainly will loose a lot of the enjoyment I have now shooting with a pentaprism OVF camera. For very little if any gain in my shooting. Remember I cut video out of what I do years ago. So a camera cannot compensate it's still photography problems with it's video with me. It lives or dies on it's stills, and everything in the way of improved photos in the a55 stills could be in an a750 and more.

That is what I'm about, it's called equipment choice. And while I do some things that only a few thousands of others do, there is still a large market for the camera I need. Because it does so much more so well.

Walt