PMA round up

[bakubo]

I would be disappointed if an ISO button is not added.

Me too. I use the A700 ISO button all the time, often with my eye at the vf. Also, they have removed the C button. I use it a lot too.

[bakubo]

The answer to the lack of an A700 'replacement' for those wanting an upgraded camera is fairly simple, in Sony language one already exists, the A850, it has a very similar control layout, feature list and user interface, along with a few extra pixels.

I don't see it that way. Much more expensive than the A700, bigger, heavier, no flash, APS-C lenses Sony sold for and were bought for A700 don't work well with A850, non-A-mount lenses can only use M mode, lower fps, etc.

[RubberDials]

It may be obvious to you that the 7xx model is 700/900 build, but until I pointed it out, the universal opinion (judging by dPreview) is that is was not. People simply didn't even study the construction. And it's worth repeating the point, as there are plenty of assumptions still being made that it is not. No-one seems to have considered the possibility that the lack of connections may be due to putting card slots in the base to improve weathersealing - though I don't think HDMI etc in the base would be a great idea.

But you haven't seen the docking station have you? Wireless transfer and the lot. NB: nor have I, for a Sony DSLR at least.

Ref the still/video thing - yes, this matters. When Paul was speaking to us (Harvey) I think you were still there when I asked about the still thing. If you want a still from Canon, their video format screws it. Taking a still interrupts both video and sound for 1 second. With Nikon, the format used is still-friendly, but only one camera allows you to save a single frame as a JPEG (D3S) and you have to do during playback on the camera.

The likely Sony technology allows for a press of the regular release, during video shooting. This will save a JPEG for the moment you press, but will have no effect on the video or the sound (it does not make a sound either) so you don't interrupt filming. The question is whether or not that uses the technology from their camcorders, and just capture a 1080p frame (that's good for a 7 x 5 print) - or whether they use multiple frame stitched interpolation to make a double size JPEG - or whether they have a true multiple resolution subsampling readout.

Now if they have true subsampling (not downward interpolation or post-process subsampling) that also means they probably have 10fps or better - 15fps likely - 6 megapixel shutterless high speed sequence still shooting. It is all one package - no rolling shutter; high speed medium res stills; good low res stills during video without any penalty.

Paul's reaction to my discussion of these things (it was just before the last people left) makes me think that Sony has some if not all of this in the new camera.

David

Ha! You are in the enviable position of being taken seriously over at Dpreview, David, most us are not. I am unable to make simple design observations without a torrent of facetiousness and half-witted abuse. Many of the posters there are so feeble minded and woebegone that I believe an unemployed actor lowered from a crane in an orange cape and a helmet shaped like an a700 would be worshiped as a god.

What is most terrifying is the lack of visual acuity - from photographers! There are umpteen posts there bemoaning the lack of card door, when it is clearly defined on the prototype. They seem to have forgotten that every Alpha and KM camera has a sliding cover with a thin vertical grip (which is evident) rather than some sort of visible hinge.

The design of the a700 was widely derided when it debuted, but now it is a classic not to be altered, despite looking fairly dated. When I handled an a850 a month ago, the first thing that struck me was the outmoded appearance of the rear plate. An observation that I never posted anywhere as it has no chance of being understood. The much loved (but rarely used) Steadyshot switch was only ever there as a marketing ploy from Minolta. This was always a menu controlled feature.

The new design is an ergonomic improvement - if you use your eyes - and clearly great care has been taken in the styling of the widely criticised shutter release collar and finger recess. I look forward to the stream of posts remarking on how comfortable the new design actually is when the camera becomes available. In many ways the new body is as reminiscent of the a100 (and Leica R series) as anything from Canon. The key Minolta feature of angling the front dial at 45% is retained - not that anyone seems to have noticed.

As for video - this is an area where ignorance, prejudice and anger is likely to overwhelm all future discussions. Progressive capture eliminated the need for a still video function in camcorders a long time ago, and Sony run the risk of non-video users imagining that any still facility is there to be used as a substitute for a traditional still photography rather than a still for video production. In fact I cannot see how Sony can win the public video battle. Professionals will be grateful for the technology, but forums will seethe with denouncements of 'crippled' and 'pointless' features.

Incidentally, do you have any information on whether the a7xx has a tilt screen? The educated guesser predicts a new standard in resolution.

[bakubo]

What is most terrifying is the lack of visual acuity - from photographers! There are umpteen posts there bemoaning the lack of card door, when it is clearly defined on the prototype. They seem to have forgotten that every Alpha and KM camera has a sliding cover with a thin vertical grip (which is evident) rather than some sort of visible hinge.

I am looking at UrsaMajor's photos of the concept mock-up below. Can you point out where the sliding door is? Thanks!

[bfitzgerald]

Not sure the A700 is a classic design, it just happened to be a good handling camera (in most respects), and some would say better than rivals, ergo wise. Personally I'd like to have seen better use of the top plate..but hey it's down to taste. Film 7 and 7d..clearly were better handling cameras than rivals at the time, of course if you subscribed to lots of switches and dials etc, and I did. Sony clearly are simplifying body controls, even on higher end models.

The blank plate is clearly where the connections will go..HDMI, remote, studio flash etc. I'm wondering where they are going to put WB and ISO buttons. I'd have to say near the top LCD, not a lot of places left.

Believe it or not, I am paying attention, leaving aside any personal thoughts and tastes in style, I see again the "Sony ignore mode" in action. Look at the main exposure dial on the A7xx, and we see the same old "MR" position, and the scene modes that nobody ever uses, rather than the custom settings that we had on the film 7 and 7d..this point was raised by many A700 users. A minor thing, but worth pointing out..I'd love a set of those ear plugs Sony uses.

Some shooters want a genuine alternative to Canon and Nikon, I'm afraid Sony don't have the touches of magic that KM did.

[PedroDuarte]

Look to the right side of the body.
You can easily see the cutting there. But, it can be used only for the connections.

[UrsaMajor]

By the way, where is the C button? Did that disappear too?

I looked for it myself, both while at PMA, and later when reviewing the photos I had taken there. I could not find it, and I suspect it is "missing in action". However, if the A7XX is really as far away from production as it appeared to me, there is still plenty of time for Sony to return it to the user interface - if Sony bothers to listen.

Although you are not one of the people complaining that a top LCD makes the camera look like a Canon - to which my attitude is "So what!" - I'll comment about that here for convenience. My personal belief is that this is probably there because Sony was listening to its users. Specifically, I think this may be in response to Michael Reichman of "The Luminous Landscape" web site, as he is a very strong proponent of a top LCD.

For years, the presence or absence of a top LCD has been one of his primary comments when reviewing cameras, to the point where it seems to me that it is almost a religious issue with him. "The Luminous Landscape" gets a LOT of traffic, and I have heard a rumor that the A900 sales took a visible jump when Michael switched to the A900 after many years with Canon. In view of the visibility of Michael's camera reviews among the market for upper-end DSLR cameras, I would not be at all surprised if the top LCD is a marketing decision to accomodate Michael.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[bakubo]

Although you are not one of the people complaining that a top LCD makes the camera look like a Canon - to which my attitude is "So what!" - I'll comment about that here for convenience. My personal belief is that this is probably there because Sony was listening to its users. Specifically, I think this may be in response to Michael Reichman of "The Luminous Landscape" web site, as he is a very strong proponent of a top LCD.

For years, the presence or absence of a top LCD has been one of his primary comments when reviewing cameras, to the point where it seems to me that it is almost a religious issue with him. "The Luminous Landscape" gets a LOT of traffic, and I have heard a rumor that the A900 sales took a visible jump when Michael switched to the A900 after many years with Canon. In view of the visibility of Michael's camera reviews among the market for upper-end DSLR cameras, I would not be at all surprised if the top LCD is a marketing decision to accomodate Michael.

Yes, I am not one of those who complained about the lack of a top LCD on the A700, but I am not against having it on the A7xx since it is sometimes convenient to have a few bits of info up there too (exposure mode, shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.) in addition to it being on the big rear LCD. I do hope they keep the ISO and C buttons though.

[pakodominguez]

I looked for it myself, both while at PMA, and later when reviewing the photos I had taken there. I could not find it, and I suspect it is "missing in action". However, if the A7XX is really as far away from production as it appeared to me, there is still plenty of time for Sony to return it to the user interface - if Sony bothers to listen.
...
With best wishes,
- Tom -

Hi Tom,
Did you had the chance to talk with any Sony Rep -and get any interesting comment on the DSRL or the Slimline?

Regards

[bfitzgerald]

I think we're stretching things a tad! I highly doubt Sony would add a top LCD on the basis of one person, even if it's someone who is respected, such as Michael Reichman.
So they will ignore thousands of users and refuse to address issues, but change a camera design on the basis of one user? Not likely really.
The top LCD isn't a deal breaker, it's just rather amusing to see a company with a tag line of "like no other", but they are very happy to copy ideas from other makers. I honesty, the top lcd isn't of much use nowadays, though I'll admit I don't mind the film 7's super mini one..that's mildly useful as it gives me my exposure details when tripod mounted. Other than that, it's a relic from days gone.

[alphaomega]

Just had a look at my A700 and yes we need Sony to add a few buttons to that A7XX mock-up, namely:
C as mentioned above
ISO and WB
Switch between cards (I wonder if it will have SD and Memory Stick?)

I think I would accept SSS through Fn if the switch between cards was added like on the A550 I think. It was certainly on my DSC-R1 and used for good measure.

I would also vote for a movable rear screen (as the A550).

That is on top of my desire for that APS-C CMOS sensor that will provide min. 48Mb open Jpeg file without upsizing.

Sony, listen as I am actually a potential buyer (unlike some) if you can deliver the goods and don't dispatch me to the poor house in the process.

[Javelin]

My wants are simpler. I want changeable focus screens and micro adjust. I'd like the same BF the A700 has I wouldn't trade that for LV or video and I would early miss the c button. I use that to switch focus areas. I'm happy with my a700 though. if it goes bad on me and I can't afford one of the full frames I hope there is one of these to jump to when that time comes

[UrsaMajor]

I think we're stretching things a tad! I highly doubt Sony would add a top LCD on the basis of one person, even if it's someone who is respected, such as Michael Reichman.
So they will ignore thousands of users and refuse to address issues, but change a camera design on the basis of one user? Not likely really.
The top LCD isn't a deal breaker, it's just rather amusing to see a company with a tag line of "like no other", but they are very happy to copy ideas from other makers. I honesty, the top lcd isn't of much use nowadays, though I'll admit I don't mind the film 7's super mini one..that's mildly useful as it gives me my exposure details when tripod mounted. Other than that, it's a relic from days gone.

I think you missed the point of my comment. I did not say that they would add the top LCD just to please one person, but that they would do so because that one person has the potential to make a significant difference in their sales. You may think - and say repeatedly - that features such as MLU are important and are deal breakers for "thousands of users", but it is my opinion that you are in error. (That opinion is shared by some very knowledgable "name" people with whom I have discussed the subject of what features "the market" values, BTW.)

Please note that I am not saying that I myself do not want many of the features for which you continually beat the drum, just that I do not agree that the effect upon sales of their presence or absence would be dramatic.

With no offense intended, I have felt for a long time that you have fallen into the classic trap of equating what you think is important with what the market in general thinks is important, and disparaging anyone who has a different set of priorities. Personally, a top LCD is of very little importance to me, but probably 40% of my personal acquaintances who shoot with a DSLR place it fairly high on their priority list. They apparently find it quite useful when shooting on a tripod, even though I find no added value in that scenario myself.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[UrsaMajor]

Did you had the chance to talk with any Sony Rep - and get any interesting comment on the DSRL or the Slimline?

I talked to a couple of the people at the Sony exhibit, but not to anyone who was in a position to have any real knowledge of these future products. All that anyone with whom I spoke could do was to parrot the press release, and it was obvious that they really were ignorant of any additional information, not just remaining silent.

Since Gary Freidman went there as "invited press", I assume that he was likely to be in contact with people who are higher up the Sony food chain, and are in a better position to have some actual facts, rather than just the PR fluff available to the folks working in the exhibit area. I'm looking forward to seeing what Gary writes about these products.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[pakodominguez]

Thanks Tom,for your articulated pst.

Regards