Is the MEGA Pixel race over for now?

[alphaomega]

I have been wondering for some time if we have seen a temporary "lull" in the race for even more Mega Pixels in P&S as well as DSLR cameras.
A few thoughts.
Olympus have more or less stated they will stay with their 12Mp sensor.
Pentax/Samsung sticking with their 14Mp sensor
Panasonic stated, when releasing their LX3, that 10Mp was optimum for P&S quality. Lens restricted to 24-60 equivalent for best quality.
Nikon stayed with 12Mp in their D300s. (Maybe access to Sony's new 14.2 CMOS denied?)
Canon reduced sensor in G11 to 10Mp compared with G10 at 14.7Mp
Sony could have tried to outdo or match Canon 50D on sensor size for the A550, but stayed at 14.2Mp with their new A550 sensor.
The A850 utilises the A900 sensor and Sony stated clearly at A900 release that the 24Mp sensor ideally matched the capabilities of the CZ lenses (presumably they also think the same of their G glass).
Canon kept their 21Mp sensor for the 5D. No attempt to outdo Sony here.
It seems to me that the name of the game now is to improve on the sensor size capability rather than adding more mega pixels. Maybe it has dawned on them that the points made repeatedly by certain independent commentors that adding more pixels reduces the signal to noise ratio and there is a limit beyond which lenses can no longer cope.
Any views on this amongst the forum members?

[David Kilpatrick]

Much the same as with HD video. 1920 x 1080 is probably an optimum size for most normal uses. Higher resolutions will arrive, but they will be restricted to the movie industry for a long time and may never reach domestic camcorders/DSLRs. However, higher ISOs for ultra low light shooting will be developed and so will faster frame rates - 50-60fps in place of 24-30fps, perhaps ultimately some with 100 or even 200fps matching TV systems capable of showing such a high rate.

I feel the new Sony models are a good indication of how the DSLR market will develop in the next two years - better high ISO, all-round improvements in image quality, faster frame rates and some variations on live view and video which allow pre-shot capture (already found on consumer level cameras) where a series of electronically shuttered frames exists in a dynamic buffer all the time. When you press the shutter for a single frame, the entire buffer is saved, and it includes three or five frames 'before' you timed the shot.

The technology Sony is using for HDR can also be used to 'cure' movement blurred (not camera shake) action using this buffer system. Ultimately it will allow the extreme in fake photography - a shot of a group in which even if everyone did not smile at the same time, a burst of shots is automatically analysed and recomposed so that every face is 'maximum smiling' and all eyes are open. They've got everything needed to do this.

David

[peterottaway]

I would love this to be the case as then perhaps things such as Wi-Fi, GPS and a couple of wireless controllers ( one for us simpletons and an uber complex one for the geeks ) may float to the top of the things to do pile.

And whilst I am dreaming how about a couple of extra FF lenses like a 14-28/4.5-5.6 and new digital versions of the 28-135 and the 35-200 ?

[Greg Beetham]

I read somewhere that it is totally pointless producing a sensor with sensels that are smaller than the diffraction dot produced by a given lens, all you end up with is extra noise, and no increase in image quality.

And high frame rates sound good in theory, but how are you going to process them all (think about it, 60 frames a second) and store them? it might be ok at a much reduced image size maybe...and even then they'll be all JPEG's with no RAW most likely...
Greg

[Dusty]

I think they may have slowed down, as companies pump more gimmicks and features - which is which depends on you viewpoint - into the camera bodies, but not stopped.

Since we already have 15MP APS-C sensors, and the lenses to resolve them, I see no reason for them not to continue until we have full frame sensors of equal pixel density. Processor speed and buffer size will increase enough to give us that shutterless capture via multi images, it's just a matter of time. Processor speed and memory costs always travel in inverse directions at about the same rate. Remember that $100/meg RAM for you 486-66 PC?

Sooner of later, however, we'll see the 30+ MP FF cameras. I'm not sure where the diffraction dot vs pixel sensel point is, however, once we reach it we will start to see more effort going into the Foveon type sensors, giving us another 3x the MPs.

After a certain point, you just have to go for larger glass and sensors. Imagine a 4x5 digital camera, with a 300-500 MP sensor!

Not that I'll ever be able to afford one!

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

It was until I read about the new Canon 7d, 18mp so they say.

Sigh..wonder how many lenses will hold up to that..

[Heidfirst]

It was until I read about the new Canon 7d, 18mp so they say.

officially announced now & yes, 17.92Mp.

[alphaomega]

Here is the Canon press release: http://www.canon.co.uk/About_Us/Press_C ... elease.asp
I was clearly wrong with my assertion above that the MEGA Pixel race is over. At first I thought this must be a FF camera with the designation 7D, but no, it is an 18Mp APS-C at £1700 less one penny. 18Mp will give stock shooters 48Mb plus without upsizing, but it will be interesting how it handles 12,800 ISO with a 1.6 sensor (unless Canon have converted to 1.5).
The new sensor and processing will put pressure on Sony, who are staying at 14Mp for the time being. Will we see an A750 with 18Mp next year?

[Heidfirst]

but it will be interesting how it handles 12,800 ISO

not well going by the samples that I've seen so far, 6400 doesn't look that hot either ...

[InTheSky]

It was until I read about the new Canon 7d, 18mp so they say.

Sigh..wonder how many lenses will hold up to that..

For what I see in the Dpreview sample picture, not the lenses they used. Just talking about 12 MP in APS-C, there is not a lot of lenses supporting 100% resolution for it.

One my side, only old G lenses of minolta and very good built other are able to fully feed all the 12mp at ISO 200 of the A700.

Some other like the 100 2.0 or the 200 2.8 looks like they will be able to handle more than 18mp .

The only things that is very interesting in the feature list of the Canon 7D is the ability to shoot RAW at different size , that for me is a big missing element for me on my 24mp A900 sensor. I would love to be able to shoot full frame at 12mp RAW.

Regards,

Frank

[David Kilpatrick]

What's interesting in the 7D is the removal of the metering system from the prism, where meters have lived for some time. By combining the AF module with a metering module, Canon has made the prism really simple - just like an old manual SLR - and they have been able to give it a 100% view and 1.0X magnification. This actually corresponds to a final magnification/size factor of 0.625X (apparent frame size) versus for example the A700 which has an apparent frame size of 0.57X but scale for scale (95% crop) shows image detail at 0.6X, relative to the new Canon.

The 7D uses an extended eyepiece to achieve this - rather like building in a magnifier. The result of fitted a 1.18X Pentax 0-ME53 magnifier to the A700 is 0.708X, with a 95% crop reducing this to 0.672X frame.

So if you are using a Pentax, Nikon, Sony or other finder magnifier on the Alpha 700 you are already seeing a larger view than the Canon 7D though without the benefits of eye relief and brightness.

David

[Dusty]

Canon's entry gives us 45MP FF sensor (if up-sized). That's an industry leader, and puts us at the Medium Format level right now. It even beats out Leica's new S system, which begs the question: Why are they creating a whole new format - bodies, lenses, etc - to get a 'measly' 37.5MP?

Perhaps they should have waited a bit for sensor tech to catch up so that they could have done this in standard 35mm format? Or because the larger lenses are not stretched to the limits to resolve that many MPs? (So, will Canon's lenses resolve to that level?)

Perhaps because, as we know, that larger sensors heat up when packed to tightly with sensels, and this is a good compromise?

The MP war just took another turn. Where will it go next?

Dusty

[bossel]

Maybe next we'll have continues pixels (or sensels as you said) that we can interprete at will, with any resolution, ISO, chroma, luma or whatever we want. It would be all a question of interpretation of a huge electromagnetic field.

[HFnotts]

Don't overlook the Leica S2 with 37.5 MP. Said to be Medium Format in a 35 mm style body.
Being Leica, they are, of course, making their own lenses for the system but you can bet that these lenses will perform up to the capability of the sensor.
It is in reality a Medium Format camera to compete in that market sector and not competing with the top 35mm format modles such as the 900.
It is an interesting move though from a niche manufacturer.

[KevinBarrett]

I think that the megapixel race has reached a plateau for now, and that Sony knew it when they made three generations of entry-level SLRs with the same 10 MP sensor. Confirming the lull in the megapixel race was Nikon's D700, boldly using yesterday's pixel densities with tomorrow's ISO limits, and to very good results!

The race will resume when manufacturers are confident enough with their technologies that they can push the pixels without sacrificing the sensitivity. New technologies (think Foveon), fine-tuning of older ones (think Canon's 7D), and advances in noise-reduction algorithms, and eventually Sony's own backlit CMOS design will allow the next generation of advancements.

I am greatly encouraged by Canon's 7D for Sony's sake. We can safely guess that an a700 replacement will use the new 14.2MP CMOS, so we won't have to worry about megapixels creeping up at the expense of noise for that model. And with highly competent pro-spec APS-C cameras from both Canon and Nikon, Sony cannot ignore the market and the bar will be set high for features and functionality in the a700 replacement.