Sony looks to change the world of DSLRs - Masashi 'Tiger' Im

[alphaomega]

Have a look at these comments by "Tiger" on Sony DSLRs, NEX and FF future developments.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1101/11011 ... erview.asp
Amazing that Sony did not spot the NEX opportunities to exploit legacy lenses, but to give him credit Sony will now exploit that. So we can expect NEX-3/5 replacements soon. I would stand behind my previous statement that in all likelihood the A580 is the last DSLR with mirror from the Sony stable. Just had it out for some dusk shooting of an old neon lit theatre around here. Amazed at ISO1600 images. The cam with CZ16-80 felt solid and even at 1/25sec the images were pin sharp at 100% and that is a near enough 46Mb image. SSS is a real boon. There is something to be said for a "heavy" assembly as long as you don't have to cart it around for too long.

[bfitzgerald]

Where is Toru then? lol
I don't really buy into this "change the world" headline grabbing fluff overly dramatic and predictable. It's a bit like a photographers site with "treasured memories photography" or "leading the field in photography in xyx insert country of choice" and yes I'm the guy who likes to burst balloons!

Back to Sony I think they're trying to be ahead of the rivals but in a way in which may leave them vulnerable. I don't hear many higher end users who actually want an EVF/SLT type camera. I think they're underestimating the resistance they will get from many shooters and that could back fire. Maybe I wrong on this but diving all in SLT and ignoring traditional DSLR's might be costly for them.

First make compelling and highly competitive DSLR's then do the other stuff, but if the A7xx is SLT only that might kill any sales for OVF users stone dead. If there ever was a place for multiple model lines it is DSLR/SLT and not minor variations of the same thing. Sony could have had a D7000/K5 out there right now and showing the world they mean business..they didn't their choice on that one.

[Bruce Oudekerk]

Everyone is frustrated with a lack of a700 replacement…even me…and I have no intention of even buying one.

It has been clear for a LONG TIME that video is the tail wagging the dog, here. Implementing an elegant video solution into an a7xx dSLR has completely curtailed its introduction and thus nothing was offered to replace the a700. The ONLY option left to Sony, given their engineering direction and resources would have been to introduce an a750 or a780 with the exact same a700 body but 550 or 580 sensor/processing, maybe a bigger or speedier buffer and the addition of micro adjust. Obviously they CHOSE not to go that route, thus avoiding a Shakespearian ‘slings and arrows’ of consumer outrage because of the lack of video or consumer-useful video, at any rate.

Bruce

[Dusty]

Everyone is frustrated with a lack of a700 replacement…even me…and I have no intention of even buying one.

It has been clear for a LONG TIME that video is the tail wagging the dog, here. Implementing an elegant video solution into an a7xx dSLR has completely curtailed its introduction and thus nothing was offered to replace the a700. The ONLY option left to Sony, given their engineering direction and resources would have been to introduce an a750 or a780 with the exact same a700 body but 550 or 580 sensor/processing, maybe a bigger or speedier buffer and the addition of micro adjust. Obviously they CHOSE not to go that route, thus avoiding a Shakespearian ‘slings and arrows’ of consumer outrage because of the lack of video or consumer-useful video, at any rate.

Bruce

I disagree. The 580 HAS video, so why not put it in a 750? (I'd rather have it w/o, but I'm reading the writing on the TV set) A 700 body with a higher res (18-20MP) sensor, and the bigger buffer, etc you mention. All you're doing is giving us a semi-pro APS-C body like we had, with all the bells and whistles of the latest generation of cameras in other ways.

Add in the GPS, because that SHOULD have been in the 580, and you have a great camera. Maybe it has to go for $1200, but with a Mag alloy body and more than the 580 has - (as in all the old 700 controls & features) - it would be that camera everyone has been clamoring for.

I wanted to buy a 700, but by the time I could gather the funds, it was too old. Yes, I'm sure a new 700 would STILL be a great camera, but compare it to a 580, and it's too expensive for dated tech. (I'll take one at $500 new, though!)

Dusty

[Bruce Oudekerk]

Yes they could have put in the a580 video but they’d just set themselves up for shooting themselves in the foot with a bigger gun. Can’t you just hear the, “Why isn’t the video better?” I don’t know…maybe it would be cheaper to add the video because the circuit boards would exist and only a modification would be needed for a different body. It would be essentially lifted out of an existing camera and thus minimal re-design.

I suspect, engineering-wise this Sony camera division is stretched to the breaking point. The entire R&D is obviously involved in SLT and NEX design. To be honest, long before the SLTs came out I was vehemently opposed to video being added because of the excessive R&D involved, the poor implementation that was being exhibited by other camera makers and fears that the ergonomics would be adversely affected. There were too many screaming for this sub par video and I realized it was a losing battle …but I still didn’t have to like it. Now we are reaping the rewards of Sony’s new direction in the excellent new SLTs, the NEX cameras and a lack of an a700 replacement.

I’m even amazed an a580 came out and the fact it did means you are probably right about using a580 video. Sure they would get slammed for non-existent or me-too video and they would also get slammed for an a580 in a prosumer body. And that’s my point…what is the greater evil given their lack of resources. No a700 replacement OR an existing a550/a580 hidden in a more robust body. There were no other choices for them apparently. Obviously they chose to just turn their back on that photography segment for a while. To do so forever meant they were getting out of the camera business and I don’t think…hope…that was ever an option.

Bruce

[bfitzgerald]

I'm wondering why other makers can "just update" their models and it seems to work for them, yet Sony seem to be unable/unwilling to do the same.
I've no doubts video is a must have tick the box but I'm a lot less convinced other than slapping it in there that most users actually use it frequently. After all we all share an interest that is stills photography.

The A700 should have been updated some time ago however mind boggling the A7xx might be the lack of consistency from the company leaves many users nervous.

[Bruce Oudekerk]

Yes, I'm sure a new 700 would STILL be a great camera, but compare it to a 580, and it's too expensive for dated tech. (I'll take one at $500 new, though!)

My last two digital cameras were an Oly E20N and a KM 7D. I have a lot of very nice pictures from both of them and had a lot of fun too but, realistically, all my issues with them were solved with the a850…all of them except perhaps size and weight:) Those two cameras had known issues I didn’t want to live with long term, even when I bought them but there were no realistic replacements at the time. All these shortcomings have been rectified with my a850, so I think it’s a long term marriage. That does not mean that a true live view wouldn’t be nice, that a stellar implementation of an EVF couldn’t prove to be VERY useful (especially as it relates to focus and perhaps pre-visualization) and that less noise across the board or even greater DR wouldn’t be welcome. I know these are very big things but they are issues that I can easily accept as they exist in my a850. I know it has limitations…but they are not limitations for ME. I never use the a850 and think, ”Only IF…!” OTOH I frequently think, “You damn fool!.” LOL

…maybe I just set the bar too low…or am too easily appeased. After all, I used my old manual focus A1 Canon for decades until I completely moved to digital.

I’m rambling… My point is that the traditional dSLR is nearing maturation and that has ramifications for all of us. I can’t agree with you more…the a700 is STILL a great camera and photographic tool, even if there are some better things out there. I am presently preparing a long term mindset for my a850:) LOL It was a wonderful camera, it is a wonderful camera and it will still be a wonderful camera when the next great thing hits the shelves. Hopefully that thinking will save me a lot of money:)

Bruce

[alphaomega]

Well folks, som of you can go on an criticize Sony because they did'nt do this or that or whatever. Due to weather, I have not had a lot of opportunities to use my new A580, but I have used the A550 extensively and I cannot think of a "wasted" picture. I had to photograph a front cover for a book taking a train approaching at 85m.p.h. Took RAW & Jpeg and set at high continuous shooting. Highish ISO for shutter speed and out of the sequence came the ONE for the book. Same with the A580 is a similar situation. I referred above to the neon lit theatre. Every picture was sharp at 1/20-1/40 second ISO800-1600. The camera feels "rock solid" and easy to hold steady. The shutter reminds me of my old XD7 with that leica shutter. Just smooth and no shake. Have not tried video yet, but I did not buy it for that. Will try on my NEX-5. David Kilpatrick has written about the A55 and likes it. Not all is wonderful from the Sony stable. I have written about the "sub standard" 16mm pancake lens for NEX, but the A580 is simply a good camera and I think it will be the last Sony APS-C DSLR. By the way, my son uses my old A700 and repeatedly brings back excellent Jpegs by the loadfull. Amazed that the shutter still functions beautifully. That was a good camera and I still have a second copy I got at £500. Will not sell under any circumstances.

[Heidfirst]

I've no doubts video is a must have tick the box but I'm a lot less convinced other than slapping it in there that most users actually use it frequently.

if you read the other CES reviews around from Pentax, Nikon etc. they all seem in agreement that they are in no doubt that video is a "must have" check box for the consumer despite also feeling that very few users truly make use of it.

Could my A700 be improved on? Of course but it's still good enough for me 3 years down the line so I can wait a bit longer

[Sploosher]

As much as I am looking forward to the A700`s replacement, if it is an SLT with EVF and VIDEO, then I for one wont be upgrading.

I will just look for another low usage A700, and keep it as a spare until my current one dies beyond economic repair.

LONG LIVE the A700....... :

[Scooterman]

I look back a few years when suddenly “Digital” cameras came on the scene, there were the masses saying it will never catch on, never be as good as wet film, and they would stick with the old technology, then there was “live view” many again said they would never use it, do you remember?
Just maybe Sony really has something and I will wait for the A-7** or whatever it will be.
Sony are now one of the very best sensor manufacturers and we must wait to see if they “come up with the promised goods” in the new gear. I hope so.
Regards
Richard

[bfitzgerald]

I don't think many film shooters said that most I know felt that price was a problem (at the time digital was very expensive) quality was not very good either in the early days. It was only a matter of time to allow issues to be solved (lag esp was horrible on many cameras) before it got the mass market. I personally stayed well away from it until around about 2004/2005 and whilst I shoot digital more than film I can still do film too. Many predicted you would not even be able to buy film in 2010 and onwards..they were wrong

Photography is a craft and thus various tools appeal to different users, film is more of a limited market now but still around for those who wish to use it. That's the way it should be..if I shoot some film it hurts nobody..so I'm surprised at how heated some get on this subject live and let live as they say.

As for the electronic die hards they're on a mission to eliminate choice for users (OVF/EVF) I disagree with that choice is a good thing for all. I have a horrible vision of the future we're using touch screen cameras with bad handling, few on body controls, electronic everything and no viewfinders, not a vision I'm comfortable endorsing.

[Scooterman]

I don't think many film shooters said that most I know felt that price was a problem (at the time digital was very expensive) quality was not very good either in the early days. It was only a matter of time to allow issues to be solved (lag esp was horrible on many cameras) before it got the mass market. I personally stayed well away from it until around about 2004/2005 and whilst I shoot digital more than film I can still do film too. Many predicted you would not even be able to buy film in 2010 and onwards..they were wrong

Photography is a craft and thus various tools appeal to different users, film is more of a limited market now but still around for those who wish to use it. That's the way it should be..if I shoot some film it hurts nobody..so I'm surprised at how heated some get on this subject live and let live as they say.

As for the electronic die hards they're on a mission to eliminate choice for users (OVF/EVF) I disagree with that choice is a good thing for all. I have a horrible vision of the future we're using touch screen cameras with bad handling, few on body controls, electronic everything and no viewfinders, not a vision I'm comfortable endorsing.

You may have noticed that I said in a few different words that it is the market that will see what transpires I personally bought the A-580 not the A-55 as I found it far too small for my hands.
I have been around photography for far too many years and had my own darkroom I even had a Minolta colour enlarger (Japanese version) I have used in the past many brands including Contax.
Whether we like it or not the market will decide the direction of photography if it sells they will make it, it is your prerogative if you buy it or not, also if you want a camera with all the functions on it, Why not buy the best you can and stick with that.
I may be on the older side of life but I still enjoy the latest developments, I may like them and I may not.
These days I find the ease of “Digital” and the cost, with “Film” it is the opposite quite expensive, although a good film camera can be bought for a fraction of the cost that they were.
But Barry you have said it yourself in the beginning digital was expensive and had lots of faults and it did, just see what the future holds, we may be surprised.

Regards
Richard

[mike2008]

I don't think many film shooters said that most I know felt that price was a problem (at the time digital was very expensive) quality was not very good either in the early days. It was only a matter of time to allow issues to be solved (lag esp was horrible on many cameras) before it got the mass market. I personally stayed well away from it until around about 2004/2005 and whilst I shoot digital more than film I can still do film too. Many predicted you would not even be able to buy film in 2010 and onwards..they were wrong

Photography is a craft and thus various tools appeal to different users, film is more of a limited market now but still around for those who wish to use it. That's the way it should be..if I shoot some film it hurts nobody..so I'm surprised at how heated some get on this subject live and let live as they say.

As for the electronic die hards they're on a mission to eliminate choice for users (OVF/EVF) I disagree with that choice is a good thing for all. I have a horrible vision of the future we're using touch screen cameras with bad handling, few on body controls, electronic everything and no viewfinders, not a vision I'm comfortable endorsing.

There will always be choice; sony offer DSLT, canikon offer DSLR. What's the problem here?

[bfitzgerald]

Rather obvious problem is if you have A mount lenses you might want an OVF model now and in the future, if Sony don't offer that then you won't have a choice. Sure the A580 looks pretty good but ultimately if it's the last OVF model they offer around that price range you're out of luck.

Sony have had plenty of opportunity to affirm a commitment to OVF users in recent interviews they have not done so and only talk about SLT. I've given up on Sony as they seem to want to dictate what you will use and don't understand the needs of some users.