Canon EOS 70D announced

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bakubo
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Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bakubo »

I was just reading about the new Canon EOS 70D with the new type of sensor. It appears that DSLRs with a mirror, OVF, and APS-C sensors still have a bit of life left since there is still innovation going on.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d

It will be interesting to see how it works once people get their hands on it, use it, tests are done, etc.
Last edited by bakubo on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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Quite interesting overall. Really depends how this phase detect off the sensor AF stacks up real world performance wise.
On the other areas, I'd have passed on the wi fi for GPS myself. Still single slot card and plastic body.

However they did beef up the fps to 7, buffer size is good, AF micro adjustments are back, VF up to 98% and with an overlay, touch screen, built in stereo mic, and new sensor (one wonders how this performs ie noise and DR)
Overall I think it's a pretty decent update, should sell well if it lives up to the potential. If it does then it seems Canon got one over on Sony with the phase detect on sensor, but we've to see if this delivers from both makers.
classiccameras
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

Several review sites are saying if you already own a 650D, don't bother upgrading to the 700D as the upgrades are not enough to justify the price.

Having said that, it looks like Canon still have faith in the DSLR and they probably already know the potential sales figures for the new model.
Quite honestly, I think Canon and Nikon have got the market sewn up for DSLR's and people like Sony and even Pentax are are just a distant annoyance rather than a threat.
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Birma
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by Birma »

The flippy-flappy rear screen gets a thumbs up from me, but no focus peaking and only a single card slot :( .
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Yes the 700d was boring, but this is the "70d" which is a bit more interesting!
Birma A77 has a single card slot :wink:

I had 2 slots on the D7000, it is useful no question though not utterly must have (least for me)
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Birma
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by Birma »

I think it is a bit mean to not have dual slots on any 'full size' body. It is a very handy fail safe for when you've left the card out of the body - great to have that back-up card there :) . The wi-fi is also a plus for me - Canon and Nikon DSLRs have very good support for remote use using tablets etc. via wi-fi.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

I have 2 card slots in my old Olympus E cameras
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bakubo »

classiccameras wrote:Several review sites are saying if you already own a 650D, don't bother upgrading to the 700D as the upgrades are not enough to justify the price.
This new camera is the 70D, not the 700D.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Talking to a few people today (Canon users) and the overall vibe I get is mostly positive from Canon users I know. There are a few grumbles still, like no magnesium alloy and the lack of joystick, but bar that it seems to hit the spot for many users.
Canon do have a large number of nature/sports shooters, Nikon's D7100 had a play with one the other day just does not have the buffer depth some are looking for. It can't hold it's fps for more than 6/7 shots raw, so this can be seen as an advantage for Canon for this type of shooter.

I imagine a 7dMkII will be this with the real tough build and knobs on (maybe 5dMkIII AF in a crop body or near there). If Canon get that right then it's going to be tough for others to follow that act. D400 would want to turn up fairly soon.
As for Sony I can't see them being overly happy, if the phase detect off the sensor lives up to the hype it might make their marketing angle tricky in 2014. And importantly...Canon will have a nice new model to sell over Christmas in big numbers. Sony have nothing new at all to show.

I've also had a few emails from A mount users who are looking at the 70d and thinking of switching. I think it's going to do well for Canon, they've put back enough stuff to get folks interested, and enough new bits to wow non Canon users.
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bakubo »

The new Canon sensor tech is interesting. I guess that the main advantage is for LV and video focus though. In other ways the camera looks pretty good with some nice additions/changes compared to the 60D. I really liked my 60D. Best DSLR I have had and if it had IBIS I would have been even happier. More and more lenses have ILIS though so that is somewhat less of an issue than it was 5-6 years ago. By the way, I liked the 60D plastic body because it was a bit lighter and also I had less concern about minor bumps and scrapes. Good quality plastic often can get through those things without a mark whereas a metal camera often would get marred. I realize that most people prefer metal though.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

Canon have always been critisized for bodies that look and feel too 'plasticky'.
Nikon bodies are better generally. I don't know why the don't all use the glass reinforced plastic like Olympus did on the EXXX DSLR's, unless they do and I haven't noticed.
However, only yesterday at a country park I saw a guy with a D4 that was dented and cracked all over like a an old banger car. It still seemed to work.
Barry is right to a certain extent, most Canon users seem to be happy with their camera and seem to stay with that brand, so Canon must be doing something right. One thing I noticed with Canon, as each new model comes out, they improve it with few if any backward steps. You can't say that about certain other brands.
I shyed away from Canon because every one and his brother has one and I preferred in body IS, perhaps thats me being too snobby.
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bakubo »

classiccameras wrote:Canon have always been critisized for bodies that look and feel too 'plasticky'.
I guess I had never heard that. My Canon 30D didn't feel like plastic. I guess since it wasn't plastic it would not feel like plastic. I have held and examined the 7D, 40D, 50D, 5D, 5DII, 5DIII, and 1D series. They all appeared to be metal. In fact, I think they are. The 60D has a very good quality plastic skin over a metal frame. As I said earlier in this thread you might not even realize at first that there is a plastic shell. I liked it a lot because it made the camera less prone to damage. I think the newer FF 6D is the same and probably the new 70D also. Have you held one of these 3 cameras?

By the way, did you see these cool abuse videos (part 1 & 2) that really go after Nikon and Canon DSLRs (plastic ones with plastic lenses)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tTBncIsm8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWzsXeXCwuc
classiccameras wrote: Barry is right to a certain extent, most Canon users seem to be happy with their camera and seem to stay with that brand, so Canon must be doing something right. One thing I noticed with Canon, as each new model comes out, they improve it with few if any backward steps. You can't say that about certain other brands.
Each brand generally has its own personality with regards to styling, menus, and controls. I have never found any of the major brands (Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, Sony) to have a general personality that I particularly loved or loathed. They are all okay and usable. Of course, some things about each I might like or dislike, but overall they are all okay. The 60D, for me, just seemed to be a camera that was pretty much firing on all cylinders with no brain dead, what were they thinking? issues.
classiccameras wrote: I shyed away from Canon because every one and his brother has one and I preferred in body IS, perhaps thats me being too snobby.
While I do not shy away from a brand because it is not popular I also do not shy away from a brand because it is popular. :) I look at each on its own and see how well it meets my desires without regard to whether lots of other people chose it.

An advantage to a popular brand though is that it is generally much more widely available and is easy to buy almost anywhere. Also, the used market is pretty active so easy to buy and sell there.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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Mixed views on this one. On one hand I completely understand why Canon are so popular, big system something for everyone at all prices lenses and bodies.
But actually using Canon's (and recently I've tried a fair few) they just don't really grab me not sure why that is but handling and ergo wise, just as their 35mm bodies were to me..they're a poor man's Minolta (IMO anyway) Not really sure where to rate Sony right now as they vary quite a bit and have done over the years.

Like all the makers they have a share of good lenses and some ho hum ones, moving across all the makers this seems to hold true and evens things out quite a bit.
IBIS was one reason I gave Pentax a try, some good ideas there but ultimately the system is quite limited in choice. Nikon well I actually get on better with them handling wise I think they're better than Canon but it's subjective. No need to re-mention I'm quite unlikely to look at those 2 makers again.

I did toy with getting a 60d last year, used one a few times it's decent enough and right now yes a good time to buy price has nearly halved from initial release. The no IBIS can to a point be gotten over, esp with newer bodies being all quite good at higher ISO levels. On the other hand I do like it as a free ticket and it can be useful.

1.6x crop I never understood this move and it's a turn off for me esp wider end, those 18/17mm lenses are just not quite wide enough with that crop. The no lens hood take is quite tight fisted IMO and long overdue a re-think you'd get over that with ebay clones cheaply enough but it's another turn off for me. I won't say I'll never shoot Canon because they are always a viable choice for anyone. It's just I can't shake that don't really grab me feeling from their bodies, everything from menus to layout just feels alien to me and despite using more Canon bodies it's not improving for some reason.

I was pretty disappointed to see Sony move away from the drive mode dials and metering dial take and go for a more Canon "button" approach. Not that they're Canon 100% clones but still I feel handling and ergonomics is really really important for any user. It's here Canon fall down to me I just don't fine them intuitive and actually used to find it astonishing they sold so many 35mm bodies, most of the ones I tried were not that well designed.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

I'm inclined to aggree with most of your comment. I have only owned and used entry level Canon's such as the 400D and 450D but have never ventured further up the food chain into enthusiast/pro land with Canon. I did borrow my mates 60D for a day and ended up with a crook neck. Not a bad camera at all but too big and heavy for me.
The 450D was a crock for poor exposure accuracy and I had to run -7 all the time, I later learnt there was a exposure fault on some copies. Burnt out whites became an annoyance so sold it to a dealer in part X for a D90. The D90 was the best DSLR I have ever used [and the Panny G3 the worst], it was great apart from the size and weight, alas it became to heavy and cumbersome.
With brief spells with Panasonic G3 and Pentax KR I moved over to Sony mainly I admit because of the great write ups the A37 got, it seemed to tick all my boxes and quite frankly it still does in the real world. For all its short comings, it is the best camera with the exception of the D90 I have used and I am enjoying using it. I have recently invested in a used A57 body and again for all the critisism it gets I love using it even though its a tad bigger & heavier that the 37.
Some times the grass is not always greener on the other side, which I have found to my expense in the past, but in the case of my 37/57, I am more than pleased.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

To be fair to Canon (and having used quite a few of their bodies from the 300d to 650d) they have improved over the years. I wasn't overly impressed with the earlier ones build wasn't great, lacking some important stuff (wireless flash for one) The more recent bodies are better built and beefed up the AF system too, and the newer 63 zone Dual Layer SPC metering is quite a bit better than the old one (5dMkII has older metering which isn't so good) I can see why they are good sellers for Canon even if the 18mp sensor is running out of steam a bit.

For next year I'd imagine a 750d would be an easy update for Canon, use the new 20mp phase detect AF sensor and put those bits in there. I'd not expect a major update of the AF system (70d has the 7d's AF now) so they'll want to keep some distance between them, ditto on buffer sizes probably won't see a lot there either. It's def going to get the new sensor (as yet we don't know how good that is IQ wise) and that will be enough to create good sales just on that alone.

60d well size wise it's a bit bigger than the A77, but not hugely so really down to each person. As for plastics I think 50d users were less than impressed as they liked the mag alloy build, but Canon probably made a mistake taking out the AF adjustments. Nothing wrong with decent plastics IMO, but the over £1000 price tag was never realistic for a body of that type, this is why I think the 70d will have to drop down in price nearer to the rapidly dropping in price D7100.

I'm not sure where Sony are going to go with the next A77 update, we'll have to see. I think we are now entering a phase over the next couple of years where DSLR makers are going to push FF quite hard, and when the 6d/D600 bodies get down to that magic £1000 mark things could really heat up. I personally don't think it's wise to outlay a grand on a crop sensor body right now, esp not looking at the price crash on the 60d (was well over £1000 first release) I think Sony will have a hard time competing with the 70d and D7100 as they will only get cheaper over time.

A77 price continues to fall, it's not quite at the buy it point for me but we'll see how that pans out. If it dumped down a bit more to £600 odd I might give it a look. 60d and D7000 are both under £600 right now. The A77's initial £1150 price tag IMO was not realistic and too high. Sony are really under pressure on prices from Canikon even in the UK, they're discounting older models heavily and I think Sony are going to have to do 2 things. One start price cutting aggressively on older models much more quickly, and secondly have much more appealing prices for new bodies esp if they want people to think about EVF models.

Another £2000 odd FF body and another £1200 higher end crop body is just not going to cut the mustard. Europe is still in a pretty bad way right now, and people are likely holding back on bigger purchases, I know I'm very much being prudent with expenditure now. Makers are going to have to charge less for bodies if they want continued DSLR sales to grow, that's my take on things. It's just pointless shelling out a grand on a new body when 18 months down the road it's vastly cheaper. We're reaching the stage where camera sales might end up like PC sales. A lot less! That's partly down to "it's good enough" and people are just not upgrading as much (partly tablets too but that's one factor)
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