First Official US Presidential Portrait shot with a Digital

[Javelin]

gad! my post went missing... basically.. Don your wrong on the rationing thing in the second crisis which is what your talking about during Carter it was a state thing and only a few states. 73/74 was the only rationing .. and riots too. even the picture that site is using is from 74 ...

I had it all layed out with much supporting stuff from the wiki you listed.. and those other 2 sites .. man thats really nasty revisionism you don't really buy anny of that do you?

[Javelin]

Every car in that picture is 74 or older. '79 rationing was only a state thing and only a few states. it didnt last for even all of 79 and the prices of gas dropped continually after that all the way to the end of the 80's

The embargo cut your oil off like turning off a tap and everyone was paniced the rationing and gas shortages lasted 2 years. Nixon was stuttering and it was the first time wince WW2 that ordinary Americans realized that events in other parts of the world could reach right into their lives. This is one of the major things that set the stage for a lot that followed.

1979 Gas station line...



Metropolitan NYC, parts of NJ, and all of Connecticut rationing in 1979...Others too...

http://www.mrpopculture.com/files/June%2017,%201979.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Maybe the Pennsylvania representatives have forgotten the gas crisis in 1978 or 1979 during which lines at the gas station where up to a half mile long. Gas stations sold out their daily allotment by 10AM. People were shooting each other in gas lines in anger and frustration. Increased energy costs caused several years of stagflation, where prices and interest rates went up but salaries didn’t. The average Pennsylvanian’s life savings lost a large percentage of buying power, forcing retirees to go to back to work."

http://www.bipolarplanet.com/~void/tag/pennsylvania/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Sonolta

Edit: Ok maybe '76 and older

[Dusty]

I think that there a more than a few non US members who are growing fed up with the self justifying ramblings and fantasies of the American right.

Patriotism is one thing but this is not patriotism being presented here.

End of story.

It's because of the American right that Americans still have rights! Bill Clinton once said "Everyone's going to have to give up a few of their rights for the greater good." Right wingers from both parties fought him on that, and won. I hope we can do the same with the Obamanation.

I live in a land that is still freer than any other on earth, and I'm glad that I do. Tell me, how many guns are you allowed to own where you live? What's the number of cartridges they're allowed to shoot without reloading? Are you allowed a semi-auto rifle, shotgun or pistol down under? I can own a thousand if I like, and I can own black powder muskets, antique lever actions, modern semi-autos and even fully automatic machineguns. You see, in a nation where the people fear the government, you have subjects. In a nation where the government fears the people, you have citizens.

You MAY have something similar to our First Amendment, but what happens when the govt. decides it's had enough opposition from the press and shuts it down, or enough opposition preached from the pulpit, and closes your Church? As we often have said the First (Amendment) is a promise, the Second (The right to keep and bear arms) is the guarantee.

Now, you may never want to own a gun, -or a hundred- but the fact of the matter is, you can if you live in the US. You can also travel anywhere within the country without special "internal passports", as needed in some countries. You have freedoms that some people simply cannot imagine. I know, I've been to a lot of those places, and argued with the natives about being able to really do things that, frankly, they could not think possible.

Dusty

[Dr. Harout]

I think that there a more than a few non US members who are growing fed up with the self justifying ramblings and fantasies of the American right.

Patriotism is one thing but this is not patriotism being presented here.

End of story.

It's because of the American right that Americans still have rights! Bill Clinton once said "Everyone's going to have to give up a few of their rights for the greater good." Right wingers from both parties fought him on that, and won. I hope we can do the same with the Obamanation.

I live in a land that is still freer than any other on earth, and I'm glad that I do. Tell me, how many guns are you allowed to own where you live? What's the number of cartridges they're allowed to shoot without reloading? Are you allowed a semi-auto rifle, shotgun or pistol down under? I can own a thousand if I like, and I can own black powder muskets, antique lever actions, modern semi-autos and even fully automatic machineguns. You see, in a nation where the people fear the government, you have subjects. In a nation where the government fears the people, you have citizens.

You MAY have something similar to our First Amendment, but what happens when the govt. decides it's had enough opposition from the press and shuts it down, or enough opposition preached from the pulpit, and closes your Church? As we often have said the First (Amendment) is a promise, the Second (The right to keep and bear arms) is the guarantee.

Now, you may never want to own a gun, -or a hundred- but the fact of the matter is, you can if you live in the US. You can also travel anywhere within the country without special "internal passports", as needed in some countries. You have freedoms that some people simply cannot imagine. I know, I've been to a lot of those places, and argued with the natives about being able to really do things that, frankly, they could not think possible.

Dusty

Patriotism and politics are 2 different things having nothing in common.
I like and respect a lot the US constitution, but I don't see any relation between that and the foreign politics. I'm sure no one has read our Constitution, but still most will say that their Constitution is the best. BTW, have you read the French one?
And the right to bear arms that you are mentioning is quite right, Dusty. But that doesn't make any government fear its "citizens", believe me. Now don't get me wrong (though I'm sure you will), even if a million people gets out against the government with their brownings, machine guns, automatic rifles using trillions of bullets, could they win against a disciplined and trained army? Definitely NO! It's not the guns that make government fear its own people, it's a lot more than that. Even, politically speaking, the fact of having arms can be used against the same people and against their rights. Oh, believe me on this!
So, come on.
One of the best things in democracy is to respect others' rights. I'm sure you haven't seen a communist in your life, but still you can talk against them as you were learned to. As for me, I have seen lots of them, lived in their regime and eventually took them down from their throne. They are ordinary people like you and me who have different ideology and beliefs, and they are not monsters. So bashing people here, saying they're commies or left-winged is not fair (that goes for Don). Always have respect and be respectful.
We have to stop thinking that we are the only "right" person. If someone doesn't agree doesn't make him a foe, nor an idiot nor whatever I have been reading on this forum. Suppose your own child opposes you politically, so should you ban him/her? (On a second thought, don't answer, I think I know the answer ).
Hey, do calm down buddies.

[Dr. Harout]

BTW:
1- No one told me how was my 2 presidents shot
2- No one, except Don, replied for the best politician picture ever made.

[Dr. Harout]

Qui pro quo

[Dusty]

Patriotism and politics are 2 different things having nothing in common.
I like and respect a lot the US constitution, but I don't see any relation between that and the foreign politics. I'm sure no one has read our Constitution, but still most will say that their Constitution is the best. BTW, have you read the French one?
And the right to bear arms that you are mentioning is quite right, Dusty. But that doesn't make any government fear its "citizens", believe me. Now don't get me wrong (though I'm sure you will), even if a million people gets out against the government with their brownings, machine guns, automatic rifles using trillions of bullets, could they win against a disciplined and trained army? Definitely NO! It's not the guns that make government fear its own people, it's a lot more than that. Even, politically speaking, the fact of having arms can be used against the same people and against their rights. Oh, believe me on this!
So, come on.
One of the best things in democracy is to respect others' rights. I'm sure you haven't seen a communist in your life, but still you can talk against them as you were learned to. As for me, I have seen lots of them, lived in their regime and eventually took them down from their throne. They are ordinary people like you and me who have different ideology and beliefs, and they are not monsters. So bashing people here, saying they're commies or left-winged is not fair (that goes for Don). Always have respect and be respectful.
We have to stop thinking that we are the only "right" person. If someone doesn't agree doesn't make him a foe, nor an idiot nor whatever I have been reading on this forum. Suppose your own child opposes you politically, so should you ban him/her? (On a second thought, don't answer, I think I know the answer ).
Hey, do calm down buddies.

I have to disagree with you on a few things, Doc. I've read the French Constitution, long ago, but frankly don't remember it. The one I liked best was the Confederate Constitution. Not because I like slavery - I'm and anti-slavery states rights individual - but because they were close enough to the Founders to have not lost the ideals of the US constitution, but saw some of the problems in it, and their first draft corrected some of that.

Believe me when I say the US government DOES fear the armed populace. I've worked for the Dept. of Defense, and I've talked to Colonels and Generals about it. First, there are MANY times the number of former military personnel as there are active. We had the same training, and if push came to shove, we'd have more on the line. Your statement also discounts every successful armed revolution ever. We Yanks beat the Brits when they were THE world power of the day.

Yes, I've met Communists. In Russia, Poland, East Germany, and also in South America and the US. They are deluded as to their Utopian dreams, (the purists) or just power hungry control freaks who use that ideology to take control. I try to educate the former and eradicate the latter. And the real communists - the Leninist/Stalinist/Maoists are monsters.

I have friends and even family who do not agree with me politically. I can still love them as I try to correct them. I once ran into a cousin working for the opposite party at a polling booth!

I don't always agree with US foreign policy, but I do believe that we've done a lot more good than bad in the world.

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

Democracy is something most people believe in, but rarely see.

From my perspective both the UK and USA have done great damage to the concept of free speech, and democratic rights. Esp with regards overbearing legislation, in the name of the "war on terror". Nothing free about these countries.

And it's amazing that people take all the spoon fed nonsense propaganda that their governments throw at them. The jury is out on Obama, but he is going to have to be pretty radical to convince me he isn't just another front man..just a well polished one. The old corny stuff still works..talk is cheap..I expect big things..

The bigger the lie.....

Too much stuff gone on to ignore it..the USA was DESPERATE to get into WWII, they knew full well about the planned attack, Australian intelligence informed them days before. Vietnam was simply an exercise in boosting military spending and arms companies profits..

And don't even start me off on the "lone nut gunmen" stuff from years past JFK etc etc. Come on, we are not that dumb..

[peterottaway]

I would make certain comments

1. George W Bush's first election was legally dubious and he failed also to obtain a majority vote. Also in a number of countries,the election would have been declared invalid as not enough electors voted.

2. The so called right to bear arms relates to the militia provisions. These are there because of the widespread attitudes in English political tradition to the "maintenance" of a standing Royal Army which by its very nature a mercenary extension of royal power as opposed to "popular" militia regiments. It would also never of occurred to the men who wrote the US constitution to have regulated personal weapons given the lack of effective law enforcement. If you are cynical you could add that having successfully mounted an armed revolt why would you surrender the ultimate force that brought you to power.

3. According to the " Bush Doctrine " and to a lesser extent according to various US laws, as a non US citizen I don't have any rights that the US President or his delegates say that I don't have. I can commit a "crime" by doing or not doing anything that may be deemed as a "danger to the United States" - anywhere in the world. To date these powers have been deemed to be necessary to combat extra territorial groups but have been applied (with the abject compliance of the British government) to several British company executives for actions in Britain which were legal under British law.

The US is of course not alone in these actions, it is standard operating procedure in the Russian (a pretend democracy) and Chinese (openly autocratic) empires.

4. The "Bush Doctrine" also considers all Presidential actions to be lawful unless specifically denied by US law. Some of his acolytes would go further and deny the validity of those laws which they deem to conflict with the Presidents powers under the constitution.

[Javelin]

Didn;t really happen in the states I traveled in but I do remember it for sure. just back in 73 things were much worse.

You honestly don't remember gas stations running out of gas and two hour lines?

How about government imposed natural gas and heating oil rationing?

July 10, 1979
President Carter proclaims a national energy supply shortage and establishes temperature restrictions in nonresidential buildings.

http://www.energy.gov/about/timeline1971-1980.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Sonolta

[Javelin]

It's because of the American right that Americans still have rights! Bill Clinton once said "Everyone's going to have to give up a few of their rights for the greater good." Right wingers from both parties fought him on that, and won. I hope we can do the same with the Obamanation.

SHH! you could be wiretapped. wouldn't want to get picked up and held indefinatly without charge in a secret location wihout probably cause and denied a right to representation. the patriot act gives the governemt that right and it passed without a peep from the hard right.. funny thing that
I live in a land that is still freer than any other on earth, and I'm glad that I do.

I'd have agreed with you 10 years ago. but the recent administration has made the world an Most American look a little closer. about a lot of things

for example: at the end of 2006 3.2% of US citizens living in the US were either encarcerated/ on parole or on probation. thats higher than ANY ather country in the world. and that number has been steadily growing year by year.

the US tax base is 85% suported by families that earn less than 60k a year (Families!) the elected government of all levels is made people from families that earn more than 60K a year. the US armed services are made almost entirely (est 98%) of volunteers from the lower 60k or less demographic.

this is the essense of taxation without representation and isn't that what started the whole Idea of America in the first place? The upper class is useing the lwer class to fight it's wars (just or not) and pay it's bills. Did G.W. go to war? So say for example you want to take your weapons, organize and change things (which the constitution says you have a right to do) the patriot Act would be used to catch you and jail you as a subversive before you could get it off the ground The only thing that haven;t done is make people dissapear.. yet. They don't need to take your guns away anymore you couldn't put it together anyway! You can't make phone calls. send letters or an e-mails without getting caught long before you could do anything.

Tell me, how many guns are you allowed to own where you live?

hrm.. as many as I want if they are stored properly

What's the number of cartridges they're allowed to shoot without reloading?

My FN model 49 had a 10rnd and 30rnd clips (bloody expensive 30-06's are 3 bucks each around here) but it was grandfathered and I couldn't buy a new one

Are you allowed a semi-auto rifle. shotgun or pistol down under?

Yes I had all 3 but sold the FN to a collector and am going to sell my dan wesson too (piece of trash that is but it's pretty)

I can own a thousand if I like, and I can own black powder muskets, antique lever actions, modern semi-autos and even fully automatic machineguns.

Can't own machine guns here.. or in most states. how about supressors ? Although I can buy explosives with the right permits

you see, in a nation where the people fear the government, you have subjects. In a nation where the government fears the people, you have citizens.

There not afraid of you anymore. The patriot act nullifies your ability to do anything with your weapons.

You MAY have something similar to our First Amendment, but what happens when the govt. decides it's had enough opposition from the press and shuts it down, or enough opposition preached from the pulpit, and closes your Church? As we often have said the First (Amendment) is a promise, the Second (The right to keep and bear arms) is the guarantee.

Except now with the patriot act they've been able to covertly investigate your church without due process surround you with FBI agents before you could affect any change. Not that they probably weren't doing these things before but now they can do it out in the open.. The Watergate burglary may very well have been legal if it happened now and could have used used federal agents.. out in the open to boot


Now, you may never want to own a gun, -or a hundred- but the fact of the matter is, you can if you live in the US. You can also travel anywhere within the country without special "internal passports", as needed in some countries.

I dunno. there a lot of "you can't transport across state lines" laws for everything from firewood to animals to children to liguor. But you can travel unfettered otherwise I suppose except for the speed traps.

You have freedoms that some people simply cannot imagine. I know, I've been to a lot of those places, and argued with the natives about being able to really do things that, frankly, they could not think possible.

Really .. like what?

Dusty

[Javelin]

I agree completely with this. except in recent History the hard right has had a hard time identifying the really really bad things that have happened.. actually I shouldn't say that. what I really mean to say is that the policies (a lot of them) have been tried before and failed. the recent administration tried them again and they failed again in an even more spectacular way. and the hard Right has a hard time seeing that those policies won't work. prefering instead to spread blame when they fail instead of recognizing those policies have a history of failing.
The iraq war for example. A lot of people became opposed to it. even with the lies that the gov used to start it (maybe not lies but I count sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala a lie) I beleive was a good thinmg executed in a hugely bad way. What should have happened was the invasion. the elimination of the government either by arrest or execution (don't care) realy then they should have left. whoi cares what they put in for a government if it's objectionable then just do it again. IF you have the conviction to do it then just do it and get out. This whole spreading democracy to people who don't understand never worked before and still won't work today.

I think whats happned now is a Lot more Americans have stood back and said.. ok these things don't work and I think you will see a completely different republican party at the next elesction one with newer ideas and not so much of the fear and chest pounding they have been selling laterly

I don't always agree with US foreign policy, but I do believe that we've done a lot more good than bad in the world.

Dusty

[Javelin]

Wow Don had nothing to Say..

Jav 1 Don 0

I agree completely with this. except in recent History the hard right has had a hard time identifying the really really bad things that have happened.. actually I shouldn't say that.

How stupid are you?

what I really mean to say is that the policies (a lot of them) have been tried before and failed.

You are really stupid.

the recent administration tried them again and they failed again in an even more spectacular way.

You must be the dumbest man on earth.

and the hard Right has a hard time seeing that those policies won't work.

You are the blind one.

prefering instead to spread blame when they fail instead of recognizing those policies have a history of failing.

You must have flunked the second grade.

The iraq war for example. A lot of people became opposed to it.

Whimps.

even with the lies that the gov used to start it (maybe not lies but I count sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala a lie) I beleive was a good thinmg executed in a hugely bad way.

You are the (banned term).

What should have happened was the invasion. the elimination of the government either by arrest or execution (don't care) realy then they should have left.

Ur an idiot.

whoi cares what they put in for a government if it's objectionable then just do it again.

You are as ignorant as they come.

IF you have the conviction to do it then just do it and get out. This whole spreading democracy to people who don't understand never worked before and still won't work today.

They are free to make whatever type of government they can. Get a clue.

I think whats happned now is a Lot more Americans have stood back and said.. ok these things don't work and I think you will see a completely different republican party at the next elesction one with newer ideas and not so much of the fear and chest pounding they have been selling laterly

When the going gets tough the tough get going. A pu$$y like you in charge of America would be the end of America.

-Sonolta

[Javelin]

Edit: tsk tsk .. Very nice pictures .. American soldiers teaching Iraqi's about Democracy I see..

"You have posted more incorrect information to these boards then the rest of the PA users combined. No kidding. I bet your entire life is based on a lie. You told several lies on this thread alone. .. Yawn..


Bush BW Didn't I post a picture of bush in B&W..? what are you talking about it was a better picture than the Obama one you posted.

, No rationing, No 79 E crisis, Didn't say there was none I pointed out that it wasn't a Carter Policy in 79 and that comparing the 79 crisis to the 73 crisis is ike comparing little leage to big leagues.

Bunk US Econ #'s, Don't rememmer posting any economy numbers .. you mean the class break down? But anyway regarding the economy BOY THE WHEELS SURE FELL OFF THAT DIDN'T THEY !? And your Lucky bush hadn't succedd in throwing social security into the same hole all the banks went!


Bunk PatAct Info, etc, etc, etc. Are you kidding? thy keep losing parts of the patriot act when the courts find it unconstitutional! man thats the easiest stuff to find. what a horrendous piece of work that is.. it legalizes everything except leaving the bodies hanging on light poles (not quite .. but man almost..)

How can you defent it and be a patriot at the same time?

A deaf-mute kindergartner could win a debate against your sorry a$$." we need one .. because you've stopped debating

[bfitzgerald]

I had to throw this one in..

"The behaviour of President Bush on 11 September certainly gives rise to not unnatural suspicions"
Gore Vidal

"Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates"
Gore Vidal

More fun to be had here:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... vidal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;