Photoclubalpha

I want to ask David and the rest of you what you think. I have been posting here for a long time and I like this community. Like Barry though I have bought a new non-Sony camera -- bought it last week. I still have my A700 and lenses/flash and my wife still has her A100. Do you mind if I still post here? How about posting new photos? Of course, if it is a thread about Sony related photo issues then a non-Sony photo wouldn't make sense, but how about just normal photo threads?

I may try to sell my A700, but it has the control wheel problem. I looked at the Sony service website, but it no longer seems to recognize this model or the website is defective (surprise! ) because no matter what I put it doesn't recognize the model and then comes back with a page with a dropdown list of models to choose from. The dropdown list is empty though. I tried it on FF 3.6.12 and IE 8. A post on dpreview a few days ago from someone who sent his A700 in for repair said it was returned with a note saying they no longer had A700 parts so couldn't repair it. Even if they do, I seem to recall, the minimum repair cost is several hundred dollars and shipping from Hawaii is somewhat expensive.

Of course Henry, because you know Sony will produce the right camera for you, and anyway you'll be travelling with a NEX in your pocket sometime I'm sure!

David

I would not worry a lot of folk have multiple cameras and makers it's not that unusual really. Do tell though what tempted you.
If I had offloaded all my A mount stuff then I would not post any more, but alas I still have it all, possibly in a vague hope of a return to form from Sony (or rather my way of thinking)

So wotcha get Henry? Nikon D7000? Canon 60D? Pentax K5?
Greg

I just checked the parts inventory at Sony USA for the all important A700 switchblock control p/no. 1-480-185-11 https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/P ... type=parts# and it is still available and the price seems a reasonable $55.52 but that price is probably only available to service centres.
The cover block assembly p/no. A-1318-417-A is also available, it's a bit more expensive at $234.53 (that's virtually the entire top deck of the camera) https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/P ... type=parts#
Greg

A700 service manual

Greg Beetham wrote:So wotcha get Henry? Nikon D7000? Canon 60D? Pentax K5?

I got a Canon 60D. I seriously considered the Canon 7D, but it is bigger and heavier than I prefer for travel. Also, its faster performance and features that are different from the 60D are in areas that I don't find important. I briefly thought about the Nikon D7000, but I don't have any Nikon mount lenses whereas I still have some Canon mount lenses. Once I saw the price of the Pentax K5 I didn't even consider it. Price is high and I don't have any Pentax lenses either.

Considering our administrator David Kilpatrick uses multiple systems, I don't think there would be any objection to your continued sharing with us here.

Hi Bakubo, : )

I certainly don't see why you should stop posting here at all. Your divergence from Sony for a while, may even add some extra thoughts and valuable discussions to the forum in general.
Even if evetually, you sell the A700 or the A100, the discussions on photography in general and equipment are something that you're good at. I definitely would hate to see you or Barry go away even if you unloaded all Sony equipment to someone else and proceeded with other brands. There's always room for thoughts and your photos. I wouldn't mind seeing photos taken with an other camera.

It's interesting that I never had any control wheel or other problems with my A100. It's still the good A100 I bought a couple of years ago. Sony should take a look at how they built my sample of the A100 and follow suit with the rest of the cameras they're quality checking; somethings really went downwards since....I guess.

Just hang in there with us until we get the Sony guys to yield...and continue smiling through the view-finder of what ever you got for a camera...much like through that tunnel opening /view-finder in an other 'Vietnam' thread!

Don't forget to join my challenges too!


Yildiz

Oh noooo! Not another Canonist! But anyway, pop in from time to time and tell us how it's going

So you bought another brand. It's not the same as if you resigned your commission to join the Confederacy!

We can overlook a little bit of straying amongst friends.

Dusty

Here are a few things about the 60D I really like compared to my A700 that I have discovered so far:

- AF works great at wide angles! Hooray!
- Sleep mode works properly! Hooray!
- Fill-flash works well! Hooray!
- 3:2 LCD that displays photos using all the available space since photos are also 3:2
- Silent mode -- the quietest FSLR or DSLR I have ever owned
- Full-time ISO displayed in vf and it shows the actual ISO when using Auto ISO
- Quick LV and tilt/swivel LCD
- ISO 12,800
- Auto ISO to 6400 (can set maximum ISO)

Here are 3 of my first photos with the 60D.

The first one was using Quick LV with the LCD turned and tilted while the camera was sitting on my leg while I was sitting on the ground.

Reading the Bible at the beach





He looks pooped. Hasn't taken his flippers off and has fallen asleep while reading a book.

Of course I had the 60D while also using the A55, so the Silent Mode didn't impress (it is the same as earlier Canon models) - NEX and A55 have got me used to cameras where no-one notices you are taking pix. The 60D is a Minoltafied Canon, where the controls have been moved to the Minolta-Sony position (on off switch) familiar from the A700 and the stupid on/off/wheel unlock switch of past Canons has been replaced by a soft-action button to lock or unlock the rear controller for EV compensation. Canon still don't bother to mark, on the camera, where this function is.

My overall feelings were that it is a huge camera for what you get, and indeed, this was cited by one upgrader as a reason for buying it - they said that they did not want the 550D because 'it isn't any bigger than the one I've got' and went for the 60D instead. And it's actually heavier than the 7D, not lighter, because of the steel/plastic construction instead of mag alloy.

Excellent screen but the camera can get quite confused about image orientation, it's the only camera I have used where after setting up a macro shot I ended up with the image upside-down on the screen and had to tweak the position to get it to flip to normal.

The best innovation in the 60D is in the video audio control - 64 steps of manual mic/input gain with a digital stereo dB indicator to show sound level and clipping zone. But the built-in mic is about the worst I've come across for wind noise; they also provide (maybe because of this) a separate wind noise reduction setting which cuts a frequency band associated with this mic and wind.

The focusing is actually better than the 7D because the simpler module in the 60D is less prone to picking irrelevant foreground detail when you use sports/action wide area. For all other purposes, I found the central spot to be the only choice to use; there is still the issue of Canon's 'foreground priority whenever you use wider zone focus. Image quality I would rate one or two notches below the A55, it's considerably more noisy even at low ISO and has a kind of slightly soft-grainy look by comparison (same applies to 7D or 550D, the sensor has 40% more pixels per square millimetre than the Sony 16MP).

Someone suggested that if Canon could make 18MP APS-C, they could make 35MP full frame. Actually, if the same density was used on full frame, you would get a 45 megapixel sensor; if you expanded the Sony 16MP sensor to full frame, it would be 36 megapixels.

It's a very good camera Henry especially if you like bigger bodies for handling.

David

David Kilpatrick wrote:Of course I had the 60D while also using the A55, so the Silent Mode didn't impress (it is the same as earlier Canon models) - NEX and A55 have got me used to cameras where no-one notices you are taking pix.

Yes, an SLT is going to be quieter than the quietest SLR since an SLT doesn't have a moving mirror. The 60D is quieter than the 30D I had before though. The 60D has Silent mode 1, Silent mode 2, and off. I have it set to Silent mode 1. I haven't tried turning it off to see what it sounds like when it is turned off.

David Kilpatrick wrote: The 60D is a Minoltafied Canon, where the controls have been moved to the Minolta-Sony position (on off switch) familiar from the A700 and the stupid on/off/wheel unlock switch of past Canons has been replaced by a soft-action button to lock or unlock the rear controller for EV compensation. Canon still don't bother to mark, on the camera, where this function is.

Yes, Canon has moved the on/off switch. I had no problem with the 30D location and I have no problem with the 60D location. The A55 and A580 or Nikonified Sony cameras with their new on/off switch location. Personally, I never had any trouble with the old exposure compensation lock and unlock lever and no problem with the new exposure compensation lock and unlock button. Both seem to work fine. My 60D has the button marked so I am a bit confused unless the ones sold in the UK leave it unmarked.

David Kilpatrick wrote: My overall feelings were that it is a huge camera for what you get, and indeed, this was cited by one upgrader as a reason for buying it - they said that they did not want the 550D because 'it isn't any bigger than the one I've got' and went for the 60D instead. And it's actually heavier than the 7D, not lighter, because of the steel/plastic construction instead of mag alloy.

I don't understand this. As you can see the 60D is almost identical in size to the A700, but the 60D is a bit lighter. The 60D is smaller and much lighter than the Canon 7D. I have looked at both at the same time. Believe me, the 7D looks and feels a lot bigger than the 60D. It is also smaller and lighter than the 50D. Again, the 60D is pretty much the same as the A700.

60D:
755g
145 x 106 x 79mm

7D:
820g
148 x 111 x 74mm

50D:
822g
146 x 108 x 74mm

A700:
768g
142 x 105 x 80mm

A900:
895g
156 x 117 x 82mm

David Kilpatrick wrote: Excellent screen but the camera can get quite confused about image orientation, it's the only camera I have used where after setting up a macro shot I ended up with the image upside-down on the screen and had to tweak the position to get it to flip to normal.

So far, I have not seen it get confused. To be fair, though every time I tilted/swiveled my A700 LCD I didn't notice it get confused either.

David Kilpatrick wrote: The best innovation in the 60D is in the video audio control - 64 steps of manual mic/input gain with a digital stereo dB indicator to show sound level and clipping zone. But the built-in mic is about the worst I've come across for wind noise; they also provide (maybe because of this) a separate wind noise reduction setting which cuts a frequency band associated with this mic and wind.

I haven't tried video and don't expect to use it. I don't care about video in a DSLR. I suspect anyone who really cares about video will be using a separate microphone, especially since video doesn't have AF (I think 60D doesn't have video AF).

David Kilpatrick wrote: The focusing is actually better than the 7D because the simpler module in the 60D is less prone to picking irrelevant foreground detail when you use sports/action wide area. For all other purposes, I found the central spot to be the only choice to use; there is still the issue of Canon's 'foreground priority whenever you use wider zone focus.

For all my DSLRs I always use just the central point. What is really nice though is that it can AF at wide angle. My KM 7D, Sony A700, and Sony A100 couldn't do it reliably. Most of the time they get the focus wrong. So far, I haven't had any problems with the 60D, but to be frank I didn't have problems with the 30D and 300D either.

David Kilpatrick wrote: Image quality I would rate one or two notches below the A55, it's considerably more noisy even at low ISO and has a kind of slightly soft-grainy look by comparison (same applies to 7D or 550D, the sensor has 40% more pixels per square millimetre than the Sony 16MP).

I can't comment much about this since 1) I don't have an A55 and 2) I just shoot and see if it looks okay without doing the kinds of extremely critical comparisons that the review sites do. From what I have seen in reviews and my own shooting though everything looks good. One thing I have noticed though is that the well-known red channel noise problem with the A700 that shows up as very noisy, mottled skies hasn't reared its ugly head with the 60D (or 30D and 300D before that). With my A700 the problem can be really terrible when converting to B&W.

David Kilpatrick wrote: Someone suggested that if Canon could make 18MP APS-C, they could make 35MP full frame. Actually, if the same density was used on full frame, you would get a 45 megapixel sensor; if you expanded the Sony 16MP sensor to full frame, it would be 36 megapixels.

Whew, that's a lot of pixels. Maybe need to design new lenses to take advantage of it?

David Kilpatrick wrote: It's a very good camera Henry especially if you like bigger bodies for handling.

The size is almost exactly the same as the A700, but a bit lighter than the A700. So far, I haven't found any of the bugs and rough edges that the A700 has. No IBIS though. The situation has changed a bit though in the last 3-4 years because now there are a lot more ILIS lenses available. The downside is that some Canon consumer lenses are a bit bigger than some A-mount consumer lenses -- because of the in-lens motor, I guess. When you get to the high end lenses though, I think, they are pretty much the same size.

So far, my evaluation is the 60D is an extremely well sorted out camera. I will only know after a lot more use whether it has QC problems, but I am encouraged by remembering that my 30D and 300D didn't have any and never gave me a moment's grief. The same can be said about all my Minolta, Olympus, etc. cameras, but I have had a long, sad experience with all my Sony and KM cameras.

Something that is of no interest to most people, but is important to me is that Canon, Nikon, Pentax, and Olympus (the last time I checked) have multiple languages for the menu in Japan and everywhere in the world English is one of the choices. The Sony cameras sold in Japan have firmware that does not allow the language to be changed from Japanese. That means when I am in Japan, sometimes for extended periods, Sony is not really a purchase choice -- even if my camera dies or is lost. I had a long thread about this on dpreview in 2007 when the A700 came out and it is a mystery why Sony does it, but other DSLR makers don't.

This page has a photo of the 550D, 60D, and 7D side-by-side to see the size differences:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos60d/

Also, here is a side-by-side photo of the 60D and 7D.

Even though this thread is in the Off Topic part of the forum I didn't intend for it to be about the 60D. Of course, I don't mind answering questions if anyone wants to know, but this is a Sony forum so I won't say anything more except in replies.