just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

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stevecim
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just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by stevecim »

David I was not sure where to post this sort of stuff, feel free to move it to where ever it needs to be

Mybe of interest to UK members

"The Metropolitan Police has issued guidance to its officers to remind them that using a camera in public is not in itself a terrorist offence."

http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Well, I guess it can stay here as an answer without a question. It does not affect Sony users, they only stop people with Canon gear or suspicious looking cellphones.

Having seen what the press crew looks like these days, I'm not surprised the police hassle them a bit. If I was shooting a demonstration, I would wear a suit and use a Leica :-)
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by bakubo »

Coincidentally, yesterday I was looking at a British photo magazine at the bookstore and they had a big article (I think it was a couple of pages) about the big problems photographers in the UK have these days when shooting in public. Lot of people being hassled by police, etc. I was thinking about asking about it here. Is it really that bad?
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Yes. It's that bad for lots of things, not just photography. Buskers, street vendors, informal gatherings outdoors in public spaces, walking the dog, having a cigarette, drinking a can of beer in public, kids meeting to sit around in the park - you name it. The myth/truth is the current New Labour government has introduced one new 'offence' for every day in office, through slews of legislation mainly aimed at regulating social behaviour.

This has in turn sparked off a general culture of mistrust and control, much as Cromwell's Puritan Commonwealth did 350 years ago. Schools refuse to allow parents to take pictures at sports days or concerts ('paedophile danger') while Capita SIMS, the Schools Information Management System, is automatically populated with official photographs of every school child in the country and photographers are required to provide these when doing school portrait shoots. Reason: to have the images available in case of abduction, truancy, accidents and emergencies.

Community Police - not real trained officers, hired hands - have the power to stop (or think they have) anyone doing almost anything in public. Old ladies get on the spot fines of £100 for failing to pick up dog poo, instead of a park-keeper armed with a pack of polythene bags who could offer to lend a hand (or at least, provide the bag). Photograph that happening - it has actually been the top request for search images on Alamy recently - and you risk being detained, police called, handcuffed, searched and questioned because you have aimed a camera at an 'official' and you might be a terrorist.

The latest story today -

http://monaxle.com/2009/07/08/section-4 ... gh-street/

I am lucky, we live in Scotland and thousands of restrictive laws passed by Westminster have no effect here. As you probably know, I'm into folk/traditional/live music and we have no restrictions here. You can get together in a community hall, cafe, pub or out in the open in summer if you like and do music. In England you can't, every event down a private party with a band in your own garden requires a local authority licence (and fee, all applied for in advance) under the pretext of controlling noise nuisance.

Concert organisers in England have to state the ethnicity and type of music being applied for in case it's a genre likely to attract an audience the police need to be aware of - like anyone young, anyone black, anyone... etc. Needless to say there are HUGE civil rights and human rights issues at stake. As with photography, these laws are set to be tested all the way up to Strasbourg and hopefully overturned for ever. Meanwhile, Scotland's slightly independent government resists most moves to curtail creative, personal, social freedoms.

We still have a problem with drunk kids in town squares and gangs of anti-social morons, but that's been around for hundreds of years.

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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by bakubo »

I had no idea things were that bad there. I was in England in the summer of 2001 and never was bothered even though I was taking photos all over and I walked around with an SLR a lot. Although I occasionally read something about a photographer being hassled in New York City, I think, it is still pretty easy for photographers there and in other places it is usually okay. Having said that though it seems like we may just be a few steps behind England because many communities are heading that way. More and more restrictions on personal freedom and attempts to control many kinds of behavior that were allowed before. The intrusion of government into our personal lives is advancing at a fast rate. I know it is a bit of a cliche, but what you describe sure sounds a lot like 1984.
Last edited by bakubo on Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Birma
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by Birma »

I think it is a symptom of modern politics. The real / big problems take too long to fix and don't make interesting sound bites. Better to pander to tabloid press hysteria and be seen to be doing something - doesn't matter if it is right, just as long as you are doing something. I must admit I personally have not been affected by police / community officers (police on the cheap), but I rarely shoot "down town", and I live in the rural shires. It is a very hot topic in the UK photo press and seems to be a real issue in London.
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by bossel »

Birma wrote:doesn't matter if it is right, just as long as you are doing something.
I noticed that often people do things because they can. Not because its good or right or useful. People being given authority impose it just because they can. Often it's small things not worth the hassle to fight against. Sad but true.
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by bakubo »

bakubo wrote:I had no idea things were that bad there. I was in England in the summer of 2001 and never was bothered even though I was taking photos all over and I walked around with an SLR a lot. Although I occasionally read something about a photographer being hassled in New York City, I think, it is still pretty easy for photographers there and in other places it is usually okay. Having said that though it seems like we may just be a few steps behind England because many communities are heading that way. More and more restrictions on personal freedom and attempts to control many kinds of behavior that were allowed before. The intrusion of government into our personal lives is advancing at a fast rate. I know it is a bit of a cliche, but what you describe sure sounds a lot like 1984.
Something new:

Kent Police clamp down on tall photographers

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/15 ... ographers/
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

And the Government today rejected its own advisors - and refused to restore to people in England and Wales the liberty to play music or sing in public (or in pubs, bars, restaurants and indeed at private parties - one of which was raided by armed police with a helicopter two days ago, to break up a gathering of 15 adults having a barbecue with an unlicensed accompaniment of music with 'a regular beat', which is illegal).

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 54426.html

The day they try to force this regime on Scotland, they'll find the Scottish Nationalists win just about every seat and secure a divorce from Westminster.

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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by bakubo »

David Kilpatrick wrote:And the Government today rejected its own advisors - and refused to restore to people in England and Wales the liberty to play music or sing in public (or in pubs, bars, restaurants and indeed at private parties - one of which was raided by armed police with a helicopter two days ago, to break up a gathering of 15 adults having a barbecue with an unlicensed accompaniment of music with 'a regular beat', which is illegal).
I can hardly express how sad hearing about things like this make me feel. How is it that things have come to this in Britain? From time to time I see somewhat heavy handed attempts to control people's relatively innocuous behavior here, but nothing like what I keep hearing about that you have to put up with over there. Coincidentally, I am currently reading Paul Theroux's book Ghost Train to the Eastern Star and last night he was describing just this sort of pervasive and extreme governmental control of the people in Singapore.
Last edited by bakubo on Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

Unread post by Birma »

David Kilpatrick wrote:And the Government today rejected its own advisors - and refused to restore to people in England and Wales the liberty to play music or sing in public (or in pubs, bars, restaurants and indeed at private parties - one of which was raided by armed police with a helicopter two days ago, to break up a gathering of 15 adults having a barbecue with an unlicensed accompaniment of music with 'a regular beat', which is illegal).

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 54426.html

David

It is quite perverse. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.
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Re: just some info I came across theregister.co.uk (not a Q&A)

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