Sony and N*k*n ?

[rogprov]

I wasn't sure which area to put this in so apologies if I guessed wrongly.

Recently I happened to casually say that Nikon dSLR used Sony sensors. I was swiftly taken to task by a N*k*n owner!

I was surprised at his reply which was to the effect that Sony only made the sensors and on Nikon machinery, Nikon designed them and allowed Sony to use the design in their cameras. Likewise with the cmos sensor in the R1 - which has all the hallmarks of being a cut down version of the one used in the Nikon D2Xs - I was assured this was utter rubbish. Of course by this time I wished I hadn't opened my mouth - it was only an off the cuff remark anyway - but I got my head snapped off

Whilst maybe not of great importance an inquiring mind would like to know the real truth. Anyone know?

[01af]

Well, I am far from knowing the full and real truth ... but it's a matter of fact that Nikon does not only make cameras and lenses but also is a provider of equipment for the manufacturing of semiconductor chips, like e. g. RAM chips, micro-processors, and of course imaging sensors too. So it is indeed very likely that Sony is using Nikon equipment to produce their sensors.

However, providing manufacturing equipment does not mean that Nikon also has an influence on what their customers are going to produce with that equipment. If a carpenter uses a hammer then it's not the manufacturer of the hammer who builds the roof-truss. The Sony sensors are Sony products, and Nikon (and many other camera makers) buy them from Sony. Many but not all Nikon cameras incorporate Sony sensors. Nikon has just recently started to make their own sensors; as far as I know the D2X is using a Nikon CMOS sensor. But the entry-level cameras D70, D50, D40, D40x, and possibly also D80 used and still use Sony sensors. Not sure about the D200 ...

-- Olaf

[David Kilpatrick]

The D2X sensor is made by Sony, as a joint venture, designed by Sony and Nikon and produced by Sony for Nikon for their exclusive use. All other 6 megapixel and larger cameras from the D100 onwards use Sony sensors. The Nikon-made, entirely owned, LBCAST sensor is used only in the D1H, D2H, D1X etc and is natively under 6 megapixels though it actually uses almost 10 megapixels in the D1X variant (the pixels are combined in pairs but mapped to a single location).

The D40, D40X, D50, D70, D70S, D80, D100 and D200 all use Sony sensors without specific Nikon modification but the D200 is mounted on a four-channel readout circuit, in place of the usual 2-channel used for all the others.

Sony sensors are also used in all Pentax DSLRs (without any exception), in the Epson RD-1, and in all Samsung DSLRs.

The company which does not use Sony sensors for DSLRs and never has done is Canon, not Nikon.

David

[rogprov]

Thanks for the comments, it's more or less as I had thought but suddenly felt unsure when confronted. I didn't continue the conversation or make an issue of it and it'll probably never come up again. But, well you know how these things keep going round in the brain ...

[Greg Beetham]

Thanks for the comments, it's more or less as I had thought but suddenly felt unsure when confronted. I didn't continue the conversation or make an issue of it and it'll probably never come up again. But, well you know how these things keep going round in the brain ...

I have always been slightly amazed that some people can be so defensive about their particular brand, to the point of being constantly on the alert for any perceived disrespect, even if none were intended, and the discussion was in an abstract form, I usually get more interested in the behavour of the person then, than the camera.
Greg

[Bibo]

This sparked a thought I find very interesting. I just finished my MBA and a subject of much interest in business circles is differentiation - how companies make their product/service mix unique.

In photography this seems to have been ignored by all but C*non. Sony is playing nice with several competitors/customers (as David so clearly pointed out), Leic* is doing the same with Kod*k, P*n*sonic, and Olymp*s. These are just the ones that come to mind as a start. Although there has always been some collaboration through the years, it has never been on the scale we are seeing now. Indications are that, in order to survive, there will be more and more of this type of thing.

What this means to folks like the Nik*n zealot Roger mentioned is that the brand's claim to fame will invariably start to blur. Besides, everyone who knows how to cock a shutter knows that the real issue is glass, not semi conductors, and here Rokkor rules!

heheh now the gloves are off

Besides, I don’t know about the rest of the world, but my camera doesn’t take credit for my pictures, I do. Seriously though, as far as I am concerned, as long as the quality and reliability go up and costs come down... it's all good

[David Kilpatrick]

Internet has been responsible for revealing the cross-use of Sony sensors. Had people not been able to identify the components, just as with the Tamron lenses, the companies would still be denying any connection for the most part. Net-detectives are free from the risks of printed magazines, and can say more about the origins of products. It is changing the way we see things. I know that even 30 years ago Japanese companies used each other's glass and electronics - they just NEVER let it be known. We also know that they met, openly, to fix prices and decide the course of product development.

It has taken the West a long time to understand how Japanese firms compete and co-operate at the same time. Learning that has not been good for us, because multinationals now copy the approach. But - German optical/camera firms did the same 100 years ago and still do.

David

[chorleyjeff]

Why all the *******s?
What's wrong with writing Nikon?
Cheers from a puzzled Jeff

[David Kilpatrick]

It's just a joke, but serious in a way. Some forums have suffered from a few persistent promoters of a.n.other brand arriving and posting negative stuff about the brand involved in the forum - subtle negative stuff, promoting a different choice of camera. I don't believe in banning users like this (I have enough to do banning the porn website brigade) but I like to make it a very annoying experience to persistently mention other brands!

Try doing a bit of swearing here and you will find it slightly defused, as well. You are free to use almost any obscenity you wish but my obscenity translation engine will clean your mouth our for you!

David

[chorleyjeff]

Ah.
I hadn't realised such negative behaviour happened inthis forum.
And your filter certainly works even to the extent it modifiesd the N word in my post to the N* word!
Cheers
Jeff

[Omega892]

Try doing a bit of swearing here and you will find it slightly defused, as well. You are free to use almost any obscenity you wish but my obscenity translation engine will clean your mouth our for you!

David

Ok. Let me try this perfectly legit’ expression, one which was asterisked out of meaning on another forum, to see what happens:

fuel-cock.

[Omega892]

Some forums have suffered from a few persistent promoters of a.n.other brand arriving and posting negative stuff about the brand involved in the forumDavid

I don’t need to come here to experience such negativity.

A few weeks back I visited my local branch of LCE to fin a rep’ for a.n.other company, the one that probably had the 40 percent market share that you alluded to elsewhere – so I think you will know who, on patrol. I was looking at Sony Alpha 100s and for any potential useful SH Minolta-fit glass.

The rep’ engaged me in conversation and was puzzled as to why I use what I do and not products from the company that he represented. We discussed relative merit points and he finished up with a gratuitous comment along the lines of, ‘Sony are not doing too well with it in the market are they’ in a condescending and quite offensive manner, barely able to contain his smug superiority. At which point I terminated the conversation with a ‘bring down to earth’ sort of remark neither hostile or offensive and left.