Photoclubalpha

If you take a look at the Japanese site you'll notice that the 70-200 G SSM costs much more than the new 70-400 G SSM.
Look: http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/Qnavi/Main/ ... list1.html
Can anyone explain why

Because it's a f/2.8 across the range?

The same reason the 24-70 is more expensive than the 24-105. That constant f/2.8 commands a premium! I'd be hard-pressed to decide between them though, if I were in the market.

Somehow I'm not prone to think it is due to the fixed 2.8 aperture. I have a bad feeling that Sony lenses are degrading (prices too) giving way to Zeiss lenses.
You couldn't find formerly G zoom lenses with non-constant apertures, now G lenses are ONLY with non-constant ones.
Formerly G lens meant (subconsciously perhaps) wide aperture lens, now... you know what!
Finally, rumors of stopping production of 70-200 G SSM...
What is happening?

Dr. Harout wrote:Somehow I'm not prone to think it is due to the fixed 2.8 aperture. I have a bad feeling that Sony lenses are degrading (prices too) giving way to Zeiss lenses.
You couldn't find formerly G zoom lenses with non-constant apertures, now G lenses are ONLY with non-constant ones.
Formerly G lens meant (subconsciously perhaps) wide aperture lens, now... you know what!
Finally, rumors of stopping production of 70-200 G SSM...
What is happening?

Hello Dr. Harout,

I'll agree with Zeb and Kevin on the reason for pricing. I just browsed through the other prominent brands' lens prices and the same logic applies to them also. Once the maximum aperture is decided to provide more light through the lens, thus serving to shortening the exposure period, the lens is considered a more qualified lens which requires a different optical set up. (heavier+bigger too)

And I believe the decision to introduce more G lenses with non-constant aparture values is due to the introduction of better DSLR cameras like A350, A700 and A900 and maybe many more new high resolution cameras that are designed to arrive to the market. The latest cameras made the faults of the lenses more obvious, to the point of reducing the over-all quality of the photo.

There's no point in designing better cameras that can pick up every detail in the scene and lighting provided if the lenses are not redesigned or better coated.

That's why I think we'll see more G or equal quality lenses from Sony, there already are missing lenses as it is that can actually be used with the A900 under Sony brand. Everybody is looking for third party products as it is to make the A900 more usable.

I can't say anything on the rumours that imply a production-termination for the 70-200 SSM though, seems hardly, as it's one of the fastest and most reliable lenses anyone would want on their camera, especially ones that are not full-frame Alphas. We've all seen the photos it delivers and the quality it delivers is intact.

Yildiz

This is the Minolta G lens list, part of the complete lens stock list that I downloaded from Minolta USA in 21/01/2004, alas it does not include any SSM's they must have been "available" or just about to be available, but had not yet made it onto the stock list that I downloaded, in any case the SSM's were few and far between, I think there were only the 70-200 f2.8 G SSM, 300 f2.8 G SSM, 600 f4 G SSM, there were no short zoom or short prime SSM's or even long zoom G's (HS or SSM) (apart from the 70-200, 80-200), that I know of. (maybe PT and/or DK have more complete info).
ALL G class zoom lenses had constant aperture throughout the zoomrange, (those made by Minolta that is).

Primes
35 f1.4 G
85 f1.4 G (D)
200 f4 MACRO APO G
200 f2.8 APO G
300 f2.8 APO G (replaced by 300 f2.8 APO G SSM)
300 f4 APO G
400 f4.5 APO G
600 f4 G (replaced by 600 f4 APO G SSM)

Zooms
17-35 f3.5 G
28-70 f2.8 G
80-200 f2.8 APO G (replaced by 70-200 f2.8 APO G SSM)

From memory, ALL the G's were seriously expensive....more than double the price of the standard equivalent lens, (if there was an equivalent that is, sometimes there was none).
The thing is, with a lens like a 70-300 G or a 70-400 G, to make those constant aperture, f4 say, the price would go up by a substantial amount over the price they are now, not to mention the physical size and weight would also go up quite a lot.
Greg

There was one other Minolta G lens - the 28mm f3.5 design built into the TC-1 compact camera. The 600mm with SSM was not, as fas as I know, ever released. It was announced but I know of no example of the lens out there. That's why I thought Sony might have it - but it seems there were not even any ready to be assembled. There was a 50mm f1.4 G specification planned by KM, but it mysteriously disappeared and the equipment for making the regular 50mm f1.4 had been sold to Minolta's Chinese subsidiary/partner before Sony arrived. They appear to have been happy with a Chinese-made 50mm f1.4 and have not revived the plan for a 50mm f1.4 G, possibly because they intend to make a CZ Planar 50mm f1.4.

David

David do you remember when Minolta opened up that "online warehouse" in the US? they were getting rid of a huge supply of fabuluous gear at great prices, items that I still dream about, like the complete Macro flash set, the latest model complete with the ring flash and controller for example, and lenses that could drool over etc, I used to watch it dwindle daily and the supply after a couple of months began too run dry, I think when they finally closed it there was only a 100-400 APO and a 600 f4 APO G left (@ approx $6000 US), thing is, I've got this hazey memory that it was an SSM.....but maybe I'm suffering from "enhanced" memory.
Greg

Actually I found another G lens - one I was completely unaware of, they probably made it only for the Japanese market:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIMITED-MINOLTA-G-R ... 240%3A1318" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

28mm f3.5 G for Leica... amazing (amazing price too).

I am sure the 600mm f4 SSM was never released, because we had our hire stock 300mm f2.8 lost at sea by a member, and it was uninsured - the insurance is the member's responsibility, but of course, their insurance did not cover taking the lens on board a yacht on the Indian Ocean. The same accident soaked this member's 600mm f4 but it could not be repaired or replaced, as they had discontinued the 600mm f4 and the new version was not yet ready. Shortly afterwards, KM cams was sold to Sony.

It is just possible that a prototype SSM 600mm f4 might have got into circulation. KM UK's sample 600mm f4 was not SSM, and it was sold to Peter Bargh of ePhotozine.

David

Greg Beetham wrote:... I think when they finally closed it there was [...] a 600 mm f4 APO G left (@ approx $6000 US), thing is, I've got this hazey memory that it was an SSM ... but maybe I'm suffering from "enhanced" memory.

Most likely you do indeed. I guess it was a HS version ('High-Speed'), not SSM. The only SSM lenses Minolta ever released were the AF Apo 70-200 SSM and the AF Apo 300/2.8 SSM. Not even prototypes of other SSM lenses were ever heard of.

David Kilpatrick wrote:Actually I found another G lens - one I was completely unaware of [...] 28 mm f3.5 G for Leica ... amazing ...

I saw a copy of this lens for sale somewhere earlier (two years or so ago). It's very rare. As far as I know the glass of this lens is the same as in the Minolta TC-1 compact camera exactly. It includes two aspherical elements, and it's extremely good.

-- Olaf

Dr. Harout wrote:If you take a look at the Japanese site you'll notice that the 70-200 G SSM costs much more than the new 70-400 G SSM.

Good spot. This would make it around 1500 Euro here, not too bad if its good!

Call them Sony G or C Z, my main concern is that Sony puts adequate cattle in the market at similar prices that Nikon and Canon charge.

They don't have to match them lens for lens and mm for mm, after all just look at how many Canon 70 - 200 are on offer. But to be taken seriously Sony does need to offer say a 400/4 and a 600/4 and some alternative mid / high level price points.

I can probably justify to myself buying a Sony G 17 - 35 / 3.5 and a 28 - 85 / 3.5, but not the C Z 16 - 35 or 24 - 70.

peterottaway wrote:Call them Sony G or C Z, my main concern is that Sony puts adequate cattle in the market at similar prices that Nikon and Canon charge.

They don't have to match them lens for lens and mm for mm, after all just look at how many Canon 70 - 200 are on offer. But to be taken seriously Sony does need to offer say a 400/4 and a 600/4 and some alternative mid / high level price points.

I can probably justify to myself buying a Sony G 17 - 35 / 3.5 and a 28 - 85 / 3.5, but not the C Z 16 - 35 or 24 - 70.

I noticed today at Sony Style USA that prices have dropped. Sony has cut the prices of several items.

When it comes to lens manufactures like CZ you can always expect to reach for your checkbook. Sony will eventually come out with a telephoto and super telephoto. Like the Minolta 400 and 600.

Patience my friend. Sony has only been at this a short while.

The best is yet to come!

AJ

Becoming a nice subject.
And welcome to Peterottaway.

While referring to "Forgotten" G lenses what about those used on several Dimage cameras, such as the "GT lens" on the Dimage 7/7i/7hi/A1/A2 and I one or two others?

Who knows what the "real" difference between a "Sony G" and a "Zeiss" lens is? If you look at the Optical formula of the new Zeiss 16-35 it looks a LOT like the 17-35 2.8/4.0 and the 11-18 and almost nothing like anything "Zeiss" ever made.

For that matter the 24-70 shows remarkable similarities to the design of the 24-85 and 24-105....

Alan