A700 replacement 2011 25MP...

[stevecim]

but really it is intolerable that this forum be reduced to simply bashing and whingeing all the time.

Then stop doing it !

[pakodominguez]

but really it is intolerable that this forum be reduced to simply bashing and whingeing all the time.

Then stop doing it hiccup!!!

I'm just quoting properly...

[stevecim]

sorry Pako

[twm47099]

I was out and shot a roll of film on the weekend and was thinking of this.. all this "feel it in the hand" stuff is really bunk. frankly if your holding a camera properly the grip side of the camer doesn't matter at all aside from buttom placement the weight and lens needs to be in your other hand. all thes shaped bodies do is make it harder from lefties and left eyed people to use them and I think mislead newbies into improper posture. I think I'd be really happy with a X700 or SRT shaped body even with big lenses

I respectfully disagree. My experience with 35mm cameras goes back to the SRT 101. Konica Auto S2, and Contax I. I never felt comfortable shooting in portrait orientation with those cameras. If I held the camera with right side up, my grip never felt secure. With the right side down, resting in my palm, my hand was in an awkward position, and I had difficulty releasing the shutter smoothly. The "lump" on the X570 made it a bit better.

Although I do support the lens and total weight with my left hand, the need to adjust focus and aperture meant that I had to have a secure grip with my right. The switch to AF got rid of the need for moving my hand to set aperture, but the newer use of zoom lenses still meant my left hand didn't have a secure grip for much of the time. (and some lenses like my Sigma 135-400 and Minolta 28-135 with the focus ring near the mount make it important to have a good grip.)

My favorite camera is the Maxxum/Dynax 7 (for a number of reasons). The first time I picked up that camera it felt like the camera was gripping my hand, not the other way around. In the portrait orientation, even with a long lens, I felt like I couldn't shake the camera loose if I tried. The grip was so secure and comfortable in any position that I never gave a thought to "is my grip secure?" and never felt the need to buy the V-grip. Do I feel it helped my photography? Yes, the percentage of shots I made in portrait orientation went way up, and there was no sign of camera shake compared to my old camera V-shots.

tom

[stevecim]

I still find my Minolta 600si a better camera to hold then the A350/A550, with dual dial controls and front/rear wheels it was very easy to use, would love the A550 guts in a 600si body

[bfitzgerald]

I've never forgiven Sony for removing the two top plate dials as underused as it was on the 5d it did give instant access to WB even with your eye to the VF. Now it's a menu dive for WB on some Sony models.

A100 almost got it right then they dumped it entirely. Presumably to save a few pennies, Minolta had some ups and downs in design and handling but at their best they made some models that are unbeatable for handling and design Sony have not been able to match that. It was clear they would go their own way design and style no problems with that but they got rid of some good stuff for no reason. Shame really

[Greg Beetham]

You know what Barry, I think I like the KM5D layout the best between the two, the A100 is quite ok but I can never remember which way to spin that dial without looking at where something is I want to access, or just turn it and then turn it back the other way again when the item isn't in that direction etc. Then there is the A700, that takes a bit of getting used to as well when you have been used to accessing some things KM5D style, no doubt it is very good but there is a focus switch on the front that I keep momentarily forgetting that's there and wondering where and how I set this or that focus option...until I remember, and the other switch that is around the AEL button with various metering modes, and somehow I still momentarily forget that that's there as well. So yeah twin dials would have solved that problem, I guess those two switches could have been a double decker knob on the top instead.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

I think the A100 put too much on the left dial for example the ISO should have been near the shutter release. Still it was a lot better than some later bodies from Sony.

Sony still seem to be having issues with direct buttons esp WB on their DSLR's of late (not SLT ones) They seem to have different designs using the 4 way controller ala Canon style (WB, ISO direct access etc etc) on the A55 but for AF selection on the newer A580/560 models. I've no problems with either approach but it would be better to be consistent on the whole range. A200 was a step back from the 5d/A100 but at least the top plate had a few buttons (unlike the later A230 etc) Biggest crime on that was putting flash exposure compensation in the main menu I use it a lot and without a memory for last button press it became a bug bear for me.

Km5d had that sorted as it had a sticky memory. K-x goes one further in that you can even pick what gets remembered or not.

ISO and WB are still not seen on the A7xx mock ups I'm sure they will be there but you never know! Even small thing can make a big difference regardless I think the 5d and A100 and 7d were better handling wise a few tweaks add the quick nav and you've got excellent handling and design cameras. As they say if it's not broke don't fix it..

[Greg Beetham]

I know quick nav is good, but it's only actually faster if the item you want is the one you used before I think. I can access flash comp on the KM5D pretty quick as well as it's usually the last thing I fiddled with anyway, a simple press of the Fn button and there it is, and the other items on the screen are also visible to select from with a simple up down controller press. I initially thought putting those on the four way controller was a bit mickey mouse but I suppose one could get used to it as it is direct access to important settings and that's a good thing. Yes that mockup may be a long way away from the actual camera now, it's probably not much like that at all after the amount of time since that one was put out. But I certainly agree with the concept of 'if it aint broke don't fix it,' it's going to be interesting to see what Sony's concept of a 7 is in the brave new SLT world.
Greg

[tom power 53]

Got to find many posts here quite comical in the minute details of grip and button placement, size and weight etc.

Impossible for Sony to please all - especially when many people are used to a certain "feel" and anything different will be wrong.

It really is quite amazing that with the recent astounding quality of IQ and widening of the conditions under which high IQ images can now be taken - that so much complaining goes on.

Not to even mention the price to value compared to cameras of five years ago. You would think people would be just rabid in their appreciation for what all the manufacturers have provided - I am. Instead the constant picking over of real or perceived shortcomings for a persons personal wants in a camera. Many of which are just habits or a feel that they are just used to.

Sure the cameras are not perfect but hard to believe the things that people actually believe are really "ruining" the new cameras.

[UrsaMajor]

I respectfully disagree.
. . .
. . .

Very well written. You expressed many of my thoughts and opinions much better than I had done above.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[bfitzgerald]

Got to find many posts here quite comical in the minute details of grip and button placement, size and weight etc.

Sure the cameras are not perfect but hard to believe the things that people actually believe are really "ruining" the new cameras.

If only it were comical it's not the end of the world but surely you can accept if you are already at a good place handling and ergonomics wise why take 2 steps backwards? Like I said if it's not broke don't fix it!

Sony went to all that trouble to move the power on/off switch around the shutter release yet nobody really complained about it's previous placement. Again no big deal but why give attention to such petty things and ignore some damn solid ones for instance AEL spot toggle wonderful and highly useful feature..gone for the sake of a few lines of code.

They are a bit strange at the best of times you'll have to admit that

[alphaomega]

Barry Fitzgerald wrote

Sony went to all that trouble to move the power on/off switch around the shutter release yet nobody really complained about it's previous placement. Again no big deal but why give attention to such petty things and ignore some damn solid ones for instance AEL spot toggle wonderful and highly useful feature..gone for the sake of a few lines of code.

If Barry had more up-to-date Sony cameras he would know the answer to the first point. I am sitting here and looking at my A350 beside my A550. The A350 has a 2.7" rear screen and the A550 3" so I cannot see a place on the A550 to use the A350/700 type on/off switch because the four buttons to the left had to go somewhere else and two of them went to the old on/off switch position. The same applies to my A580. So Sony had to move the switch and they picked up the assembly they used on the DSC-R1. I have one of those as well. So far I have noted that the slightly altered on/off switch on my A580 makes it less likely to be switched off accidentally. I have done that a few times with the A550.

[stevecim]

Got to find many posts here quite comical in the minute details of grip and button placement, size and weight etc.

Impossible for Sony to please all - especially when many people are used to a certain "feel" and anything different will be wrong.

It really is quite amazing that with the recent astounding quality of IQ and widening of the conditions under which high IQ images can now be taken - that so much complaining goes on.

Not to even mention the price to value compared to cameras of five years ago. You would think people would be just rabid in their appreciation for what all the manufacturers have provided - I am. Instead the constant picking over of real or perceived shortcomings for a persons personal wants in a camera. Many of which are just habits or a feel that they are just used to.

Sure the cameras are not perfect but hard to believe the things that people actually believe are really "ruining" the new cameras.

What's comical is your post! there is nothing wrong with posts were users discus what they do and don't like in a camera, that's what this forum is for. The fact is for 99.9999% of users, the IQ/high ISO performance of the current batch of APS-C DSLR is the same. 99.9999% of users would not be able to tell what camera a photo came from just by looking at it. unless you spend all your time looking at photos at 200% you could never tell them apart and the bottom line is, it's the software processing the RAW that have the most effect on the final output. 99.99999999% what you look at in a image is the result of software and the users/cameras ability to convert a RAW to the final image and has software improves so does the images.

I'm 100% sure someone like DK can get more detail/better colours out of my RAW images than I can and I know that I'm doing a better job then I was 2 years ago.

So the only things left to chose between camera's are features, handling and performance. I decided to stay with Sony because I like QLV, tilting LCD , the larger A550/A350 bodies and upgraded to a A550 for CMOS sensor , MFC and better AF (AF was not the best on the A350). "features, handling and performance" (still have the A350 for ISO 100 , for the life of me I can not understand why Sony left out ISO100 on the A5xx, once again one of the crazy Sony changes that only have a negative effect on a camera. They seem to make more of these negative changes then Can/Nik but no camera is perfect)

[Greg Beetham]

If I had to choose between a camera with a 3" screen with the on off switch being around the shutter button and a camera with a 2.7" screen with the on off switch being the left thumb type, I know which camera I would choose. I think Sony just fell into line with Nikon and Canon more than anything so any potential Nikon or Canon users would not have any difficulty in use or reason to complain.
Greg