Rumor or Real - Sony HD 720P & Touchscreen

[KevinBarrett]

Sony will have to gain a LOT of DSLR market share, and in a much better economy, to justify fragmenting the market segments as much as C&N.

[Mark K]

D90 is a nice camera and Sony needs to do something similar. However videography using a still camera is still a gimmick than a real thing, especially that one found in D90 without AF.

[Greg Beetham]

There is a danger that Sony might draw an incorrect set of conclusions based on the sales figures of the A700/A900 by comparison too their Nikon and Canon equivalents, they might think they need to get into video and LV with the release of updated models too counter the opposition and appeal to more customers. I think that would be a mistake, the reason they don't sell more of their more serious cameras is, they still do not offer a complete system yet, with a full set of well priced lenses (still no f4's, or TS's in sight), and accessories (they need to fix the macro system..flash, bellows, micro lenses), and why on earth did Sony not take the Minolta meters onboard?? probably the most highly regarded meters on the market, the colour meter and various ambient/flash meters....the mind boggles..and fix the hotshoe adapter/studio situation properly, one would think after all this time they could at least do that.
There are probably other items I can't think of offhand, but the thing is, for Sony too be taken seriously and have people look at their more expensive camers they have too start attending to this sort of thing, not messing around with flim flam.
If they think the market needs a main sensor LV and video type (EVIL) SLR, then by all means make one, separately, with an A-mount if they want, but not by trying too redesign/fudge the existing design and ending up with something that is not user frendly and not fully functional at either still frames OR video.
Greg

[Dusty]

Sony will have to gain a LOT of DSLR market share, and in a much better economy, to justify fragmenting the market segments as much as C&N.

Agreed! Although they've already hit #3, they need to eat away at the C&N marketshare if they plan on having continued profits to sink into R&D. While they are already a market leader in bang-for-the-buck category, I think there would be a big market for a simple, yet high quality, starter DSLR.

I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I know a lot of P&S owners who want a SLR, but don't want to buy one with 'too many controls, buttons and wizmos'. These are people who bought SLRs in the 70's and early 80's, or got such ones passed down from their parents. They only want an interchangeable lens, simple, quality camera.

They would want a P,A,S and M mode camera, since that's how they learned to shoot, and not worry about modes they would never touch. A lot of these guys were also darkroom hobbyists, so they would have no problem applying different profiles in PP from RAW. However, looking thru the various modes on my camera, they think it confusing and a bit intimidating. They basically ignore similar settings on their P&S, but think that they're paying for that 'high end doggie-doo' on the DSLR, while P&S cameras are cheap enough that they don't care.

No, they are not Luddites, they just want the simplicity which they used to have on their old X-700, AE-1, etc., in a digital format. I believe that if Sony offered a camera like this, with a high quality 12- 14 MP sensor, (that puts it way above all the entry-level 10 MP systems), at a $400 price point, they would gain tremendous market share and lock a whole new set of customers into their system. I would even go so far as to say throw out the SSS, if need be, to get to this price point.

This new customer base would give them the market share they need to produce more models, lenses and other accessories.

Dusty

[PhotoTraveler]

Why do people think they touch screen is crazy? That's probably one of the most possible things there is.

Touch screens that size are all around (Iphones and other new phones). The more you do on the screen, the less buttons needed (cost savings for cheap cameras).

Also some things would work great. Think of zooming, with a touch screen you could zoom with a finger drag, move the image around. If you are working in live view with contrast af, you could touch with your finger a metering point, or poke several points and and have it average them, you could select anyplace on the image, think of this with intelligent preview. Take a shot, then select new metering points, touch where you want it to focus, and it take the shot, or another test shot.

[KevinBarrett]

I prefer the tactile experience of buttons and switches...it's better for muscle-memory and faster interface. Also, I generally try to keep fingerprints and smudges OFF of my screen.

[peterottaway]

75 to 90mm touchscreens are still quite expensive and would require additional hardware support as well as more sophisticated software. And for D-SLR's, it is likely for the first couple of generations at least would require that most of the buttons and dials to be retained.

Have you tried to use a smallish touchscreen with gloves on ? And this applies to heat as well as cold.

Also as I have some arthritis in my fingers, devices such as the iPhone are difficult for me to use. I am certainly not the oldest member of this forum.

[Dr. Harout]

Just thinking loudly...
Would a professional videographer (if that is the word) make movies/clips with a DSLR having video capabilities?
Would a DSLR maker pay a professional (one time job) to shoot a video clip with a DSLR to use as a marketing weapon (in other words: fooling the people)?
Would a professional photographer rely solely on video clips made with a DSLR?
Would a professional videographer sell all the video/movie equipment to buy a DSLR with video shooting ability to continue his/her job?
Who really needs or will use video on a DLR (amateur? newbie? show-off-er? xxx fanboy?...)
Similar questions can be edited for touchscreens... hey, how about voice activated DSLR or holographic imaging...
Finally, what would you think about RATSP?

[Javelin]

I think on my A700 they could do everything you use the little joystick for on a touch screen and never have to look back. I don't think it would aggrivate your arthritis at all. you need only one functioning finger and don't even have to disturb a joint to make your selection on the touch screen and be done with the changes quicker than navigating by bending the little stick back and forth and pressing it to go one step at a time through the menues. It's not good for everything but it would certainly be better than the joystick. what you lose with it though is the tactile feel. I know some things that have come out recently have touchscreens that click under your finger when you've made a selection which would be even better but I don't think it's sony that has that

75 to 90mm touchscreens are still quite expensive and would require additional hardware support as well as more sophisticated software. And for D-SLR's, it is likely for the first couple of generations at least would require that most of the buttons and dials to be retained.

Have you tried to use a smallish touchscreen with gloves on ? And this applies to heat as well as cold.

Also as I have some arthritis in my fingers, devices such as the iPhone are difficult for me to use. I am certainly not the oldest member of this forum.

[Dusty]

Just thinking loudly...
Would a professional videographer (if that is the word) make movies/clips with a DSLR having video capabilities?
Would a DSLR maker pay a professional (one time job) to shoot a video clip with a DSLR to use as a marketing weapon (in other words: fooling the people)?
Would a professional photographer rely solely on video clips made with a DSLR?
Would a professional videographer sell all the video/movie equipment to buy a DSLR with video shooting ability to continue his/her job?
Who really needs or will use video on a DLR (amateur? newbie? show-off-er? xxx fanboy?...)
Similar questions can be edited for touchscreens... hey, how about voice activated DSLR or holographic imaging...
Finally, what would you think about RATSP?

Good thinking, Doc. Let me add my comments:
1) Only if there is no alternative. Why do you think they invest 10s of thousands of $ in their equipment?
2) Of course they would! It's called advertising, and advertisers are only 1/2 step behind politicians when it comes to lying!
3) If his profession is photography, no videophotography, he may, since it would be something he rarely did.
4) No more likely than a professional photographer selling all his equipment to by a video camera that also shoots stills.
5) Ye, yes, yes, yes, Sonolta.
6) touchscreens will eventually come, whether or not the pro accept them remains to be seen
6b) Both of those will probably also come, but I'll do you one better: How about a robotic camera that we just tell to take pretty pictures for us?
7) I don't have a problems with rat's pee, as I keep the poison out to eliminate the rats!

Dusty

[picman]

I think on my A700 they could do everything you use the little joystick for on a touch screen and never have to look back.

Direct input touchscreen on a quicknavi system will be faster than a joystick will ever be!

-Sonolta

I don't know, faster it might sometimes be, but I do not like it all that much. I have an Apple iPhone and I must say that I miss dedicated buttons. It has this unsure, slippery feel when you are doing things on the screen, you see a symbol and want to touch that symbol and it has to be 100% by directing your finger to the right spot. When there is a button, the feel that you are there, once you touch that particular button even slightly, makes for a more sure feel. Also it does not always work from the first time, you've either touched it to lightly or to hard and you have to do it again, finger hovering over the screen rather than a secure feel of something tangible. Finally, if the screen is crowded with symbols, like the keyboard on the Apple iPhone, you really tend to mistype/mistouch quite frequently. Might be OK for certain things but I hope important buttons remain.

Cheers, Bob.

[Dusty]

Good thinking, Doc. Let me add my comments:

NO...I think Doc lives in some alter-fantasy world that hates dSLR video.
No, like me he sees limited use for it, and wouldn't pay extra for it.

1) Only if there is no alternative. Why do you think they invest 10s of thousands of $ in their equipment?

Dude...We have NO pro video peeps in here! dSLR video is not targeting pros, it is targeting amateurs just like Sony dSLR's do! Get a freaking clue!
How do you know? Have you taken a poll? And if it's for amateurs, why do keep begging for it in a Pro camera?

2) Of course they would! It's called advertising, and advertisers are only 1/2 step behind politicians when it comes to lying!

To bad you have ignored the hundreds of dSLR videos made by REGULAR users.
Not ignored, just thought they could be done better with dedicated equipment!

3) If his profession is photography, no videophotography, he may, since it would be something he rarely did.

OK then...Sony does not make a pro dSLR so what good are any of Sony dslrs?
If they're no good, why do you keep using them? Also, "Pro" cameras are an evolving standard. Don't you state you have been making a living off of photography for several years? Don't you use Sony cameras? If so, they're pro cameras!

4) No more likely than a professional photographer selling all his equipment to by a video camera that also shoots stills.

Get a clue....editorial (and many other) guys will be using dSLR video on a regular basis one day.
Yes, just like the local news station will buy your video of the plane going down, because they had no one there to shoot it! They spend 100's of thousands of dollar$ for PRO video equipment BECAUSE it produces superior results!

5) Ye, yes, yes, yes, Sonolta.

Dusty prefers to pitch VHS tape and not digital camcorders!
Re-read it. I wasn't pitching it, I said I already had one for several years and it suited my needs. You seriously need a reading comprehension course!

6) touchscreens will eventually come, whether or not the pro accept them remains to be seen

Pro EDITORS do use TOUCHSCREENS! It's called a wacom tablet you rookie.
We're talking on the backs of DSLRs here. I've used a touchscreen for years, too. It's called a Palm Pilot.

6b) Both of those will probably also come, but I'll do you one better: How about a robotic camera that we just tell to take pretty pictures for us?

It's called a good surveillance system.
Again, reading comprehension. A robot that moves, listens to our desires, and goes out and finds the pictures we want. An extension of Doc's futuristic projections.

7) I don't have a problems with rat's pee, as I keep the poison out to eliminate the rats!

Try living in a different neighborhood where you have less rat infestation.

Dusty

-Sonolta

Dusty

[Greg Beetham]

I won’t quibble with the implementation of Video, LV or touch-screen flim flam in DSLR’s provided that:

1. It doesn’t divert or distract funds and R&D from making an even better DSLR in the traditional sense, that is, a camera which has as it’s primary purpose the taking of the best STILL image possible in all of the STILL photography pursuits that DSLR’s are capable of and used in.
2. It doesn’t increase the cost of a DSLR, eg one that may otherwise have all the necessary attributes I need in taking STILL images.
3. Doesn’t hamper or interfere with the function of ANY of the traditional functions of a DSLR.
4. Doesn’t cause any degradation of the OVF whatsoever.
5. Doesn’t interfere with AF function at any time.
6. Doesn’t interfere with the standard DOF preview.
7. Doesn’t interfere with the Flash function and performance.
8. Doesn’t cause premature failure of shutter, mirror, or lens mechanicals.
9. Doesn’t interfere with normal STILL image quality in any way.
10. Doesn’t interfere with the layout and function of the controls in taking STILL images.
11. Doesn’t interfere with SSS.
12. Doesn’t cause excessive battery consumption.
I still say the best way is, build a completely new camera, complete with a shutter-less, mirror-less, interchangeable lens (that will probably have a worse problem with dust than we have now) live view main sensor.
Oh! wait a minute, they do that already...it's called a movie cam....
Greg

[Dusty]

1. Get a clue...with VIDEO Sony will make MORE $$$$ therefore leading to MORE R&D money and BETTER CAMERAS!

2. Then get rid of the scene modes, DOF preview, and 1/2 of the other bullsnoot features and functions I don't use on the camera now! Geesh, man....Video will allow SONY to stay COMPETITIVE!

3. Like what function? Geesh, are you paranoid, or what?

4. LOL...One day OVF's will be almost OBSOLETE!

5. LOL....my a700 needs af fine tune NOW...maybe I should dump my a700 since this is affecting my AF function!

6. Screw DOF preview..I HAVE NEVER used it in my life..A waste of MONEY on a dSLR! VIDEO will be much more useful!

7. Flash? Have not used one of those things in years. Man...you had better take your paranoia pills!

8. Get a clue! MY a700 AF already failed! Front and rear dials are already failing as well!

9. Get a clue! Notice the 5DMKII is beating up on the a700 in many areas of IQ, and the D90 is trumping it in some areas.

10. Get a clue....paranoid boy! The Sony top control layout interferes with my shooting but I use it anyway.

11.LOL...Video has been implemented on still cameras for years with no ill effects. My gosh, man, even my Minolta xT shoots video!

12. It won't use the battery if you don't shoot video...old photographer's trick.

Many of us want VIDEO before we switch systems just to get LV, Video, or af fine tune, or all of the above.

Don't you understand that Sony is late to market with LV, Video, and Lens Fine Tune on upscale models?

-Sonolta

1) Perhaps, perhaps not. Have you seen their marking research, and compared against the possible loss of video camera sales?
2) The first 1/2 I agree with, a simpler, cheaper, 'starter DSLR' like I argued for the other day, but even in this forum, there is a big devide over whether or not people would want or pay for video in their DSLRs.
3) Not wanting to interfere with currnet functions doesn't make anyone paranoid, just cautious.
4) One day everything we currently have in will be obsolete, but until there are quality replacements that meet our requirements, we'll stick with what works. If you don't like OVF, get yourself a P&S camera.
5) Maybe you should get one of those Canon or Nikon systems you are always praising and stop bothering us with your diatribe.
6) Just because you never use something doesn't mean others don't find it useful.
7) Just because you lack the technical ability to properly use a function does not make that function useless to those who have no such limitations.
8 ) Then replace it. You shoot an excessive amount of photos. There are limits to durability. If you want a more durable camera, pony up the bucks for it or quit complaining!
9) Again, pony up the bucks for the one that meets your needs. In every field there those who try to get by on the cheap, then complain about inferior results.
10) Obviously, you didn't do proper recearch before you purched the product, now you want to blame your problems on the product YOU purchased that was not right for the way YOU shoot.
11) Then stick with your xT, if it suits your needs. If however, as I suspect, it doesn't, BUY WHAT WIILL.
12) Old photographers never had the option of video.

Many do, many don't, that's why we're having disagreements.

Late to market? They are the newest DSLR maker in the market, and already they've grabbed the #3 slot. Not bad.

Dusty

[Greg Beetham]

You don't think battery consumption will be a problem Don? hmmm let's see, you like low light action...right, most HQ video sensors need some artificial light sorce in low light situations otherwise the quality goes too the dogs, so besides running an EVF, a rear screen, a focus motor, SSS, a main sensor FULL TIME, a power hungry dual processor, you also have too provide artificial light as well, all from a DSLR size battery??? I don't think that is going to fly for long, better get the dual battery grip at least for all that.

Greg
ps Just because YOU don't use DOF preview Don, are you trying too tell me it's not a needed feature anymore????
also it's still early days with the video feature on DSLR's, it remains to be seen just how reliable they are going to be medium-long term....shutters, mirrors, lenses, wise.