Olympus is out...

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bakubo
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Re: Olympus is out...

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bakubo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:50 pm I think JIP takes over the Olympus camera division pretty soon, but no one knows what the future holds. Yesterday Olympus announced their newest, biggest, and most expensive lens though:

Olympus 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x IS Pro officially unveiled; ships in January for $7500

https://www.dpreview.com/news/596175601 ... ly-debuted

Olympus also announced a bunch of firmware updates for cameras and a minor new camera. The last hurrah or does JIP/Olympus really think they have a future?
The camera company is now called OM Digital. People have started receiving their expensive 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x IS Pro lenses.

They have also started publishing a new magazine so the marketing seems to be in full swing:

https://t.co/6O8xDXnynK?amp=1

https://twitter.com/getolympus/status/1 ... 2068120580

We shall see what lies in store for the future.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Olympus is out...

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I suppose the acid test is going to be what new products turn up. I wonder what they will brand the cameras as?
Perhaps if there is a change in direction, it might work. I think things looked a bit shaky for Olympus with the OMD EM1X, a camera that just didn't seem to fit the micro 4/3 ethos. I know Oly was pretty popular in Japan, remains to be seen how they can do in other markets with micro 4/3.
Lot of people are writing off crop sensor formats, I personally don't share that view. However, with full frame models flying around at lower prices, I think the days of pricey crop bodies, maybe with the exception of sports/action/wildlife D500 type cameras..are limited. For this reason I see no reason to look at models like the Fuji XT4, at it's current price. Evidently the new Pentax K3III is going to roll heads on it's expected retail.
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Re: Olympus is out...

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From what I am seeing and reading it seems like m4/3, Olympus in particular, is becoming pretty popular with bird and wildlife photographers so that explains a lot of why the E-M1X, E-M1III, big, expensive telephotos, etc. have come out. The E-M1X got a big firmware update at the end of 2020 that added AI bird AF among other stuff. While it is all rather big compared to other m4/3 it is quite small to somewhat similar FF choices and there are lots of people who want that. Many think that even with the 4/3 sensor the performance is fine for the ISO settings they typically use. Some are quite excited about DXO Deep Prime and Topaz Denoise Ai these days too because, apparently, they do quite well and many say they feel like it gives them about 2 additional ISO settings that are useful, particularly DXO Deep Prime. I just pass all this on. I don't have much opinion about it because these are not the types of photography that I am most interested in.

I currently have 4 Olympus m4/3 bodies and 2 Panasonic m4/3 bodies plus a dozen lenses. And for the last year I have not done any travel. I still go out on photo walks everyday, but it is not the same as traveling, being in a big city such as Tokyo and doing street life photography, etc. I just don't have much use for any new gear right now because what I have all works well and I am pretty happy with it.

Take this for whatever it is worth. May turn out to be true, may not:

(FT5) Sony has one newly developed MFT sensor ready for early 2021

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-sony-has-o ... arly-2021/

I see that a camera store I sometimes buy stuff at in Tokyo that sells lots of used gear has excellent condition E-M1X bodies for about US$1600 (at the current exchange rate). I am not interested, but that price is much better than the US$3000 launch price.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Olympus is out...

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I don't know much about wildlife photography, but tough area you're up against the D500 and similar and it was hard to see the EM1X compete on price alone. Yes it's come down quite a bit, but it had to really launch price wasn't realistic. Fuji made the same mistake with the XH1 it wasn't going to fly at that price. So for me, I think how they price it is pretty important, not just long tele lenses which are not big sellers and expensive - but the system overall.
I'd expect a new sensor Oly got stick for that area, keeping the same one for years or very similar ones. What's going to happen now is I think more pixels (fairly predictable). Maybe more 32mp cameras, possibly even some 45mp ones as they jump on the 8k bandwagon. How that's going to hold up on crop sensors, not so sure. Seems it's nowadays about the spec sheet v anything else. For photography I don't see a problem with 16-24mp is plenty for me!
It's a tried and tested formula though, more pixels you get some people excited, I'm just not one of them lol!
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Re: Olympus is out...

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Yeah, I don't know that much about wildlife and bird photography either, but I have seen and read quite a few things in the last couple of years of a fair number of people switching to Olympus. That doesn't mean most, of course. But apparently Olympus started seriously marketing to that group pointing out the advantages with regards to smaller size/weight for people who often do lots of hiking and carrying big gear and lenses. Hence, the 150-400mm F4.5 TC1.25x IS Pro (1.25x TC built-in and turned on by a flick of a switch) and E-M1X. I make no predictions about how successful they are or even if the new OMD has any success, of course. Just passing on what I have been seeing and reading in recent years. Of course, Olympus and Panasonic still make and sell smaller stuff too. There are rumors that Panasonic will have a GH6 and GX10 (aka GX7IV in Japan) this year.

The m4/3 lens lineup from Olympus, Panasonic, and Sigma for AF lenses and whole bunch of companies for MF lenses seems quite extensive and hard to figure out what to add. There are rumors of more lenses coming though. Here is a list of all the Olympus and Panasonic lenses and a few of the 3rd party lenses (there are many more 3rd party lenses that are not listed here though):

https://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/lens.html

This is from today:

(FT5) Confirmed: New Sony MFT sensor records 8K video

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-confirmed- ... -8k-video/

At the beginning of November I got solid info that Sony will launch one new MFT sensor in 2021. I now got the confirmation this sensor will be able to record 8K video and have a 30+MP resolution. Now I have little doubt this is the sensor that Panasonic will use on the GH6.

So much of this is all academic to me though. I am fine with what I have, but if something cool came along at a price I am willing to pay then I would get it. You can get very excellent condition E-M1II bodies for about US$700 in Japan at a big used shop I have bought from before. I have no need for it, but the price is quite nice.
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Re: Olympus is out...

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Looks like a potential GH type sensor and I think Panasonic will keep doing those, though I'm not sure why they have 2 formats now. I wasn't sure the FF move was a smart one - too much competition. With 4/3 the first format I knew that had limited appeal, so I wasn't surprised when it got dropped and they moved to micro 4/3. That seemed to make sense, the form factor and ultra compact style was IMO a better fit for the sensor.
Still lot of people say crop sensors can't survive, and it's only going full frame over time. As I said I don't necessarily agree with that. On the other hand I can't see the point in having a crop sensor and spending quite a large wad of cash on a say a 16-55mm F2.8, when you can buy a full frame camera and 24-70mm F4 it makes IMO 0 sense to invest that heavily in a crop body.

Things were different when Sigma/Tamron used to offer budget but decent lenses aka 17-50mm F2.8. Now both seem to be quite a lot more expensive with their offerings. Longer tele perhaps is something different, I see crop being more appealing and perhaps the lens cost is less an issue for those types of shooters. I remember seriously considering Fuji for a system switch, but I started to price it up and some nice lenses aside, they do have a few turkeys too. I had no problems buying a Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 for €480, but why would I buy a Fuji 10-24mm F4 for €1000 or a 55-200mm for €700? I couldn't find a reason I would ditto the nice buy pricey compact Fuji primes. Same thing with the Olympus 25mm f1.2, does it make sense to have such a lens? Not saying everything needs to be dirt cheap, but there are probably things they should just skip
If the prices on crop systems are not more cost effective v full frame, then it is obvious people will be less interested in them.
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Re: Olympus is out...

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I guess I don't have much opinion about Panasonic having 2 formats (sensor sizes). So does Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony, Pentax, Sigma, etc. so nothing unusual about it.

The attractive thing for many people about m4/3 and APS-C is that overall the lenses and systems can be smaller. Of course, sometimes in particular cases of a lens or a body it isn't true, but overall it is. For people who don't care about any of that though then a FF system makes sense. Throughout time some people have been willing to spend more for smaller things. Not just camera gear. Not everyone equates bigger with more expensive.

A lot also depends on what one does with the photos. Many people see most photos on their phones or tablets. Some people make the occasional print. For the last few years I have made a few photo books and I am working on another one right now. And I continue to put photos on my website. That's about it for me in the last few years. Having 40mp or 50mp or 60mp or 100mp is not something I care about or even want. Years ago on this forum I said that the 12mp of my A700 seemed sufficient most of the time for me. The 20mp and 16mp of my m4/3 gear is plenty.

See this thread from 2018 and remember that the photos were taken by older cameras. m4/3 cameras of the last several years can in most cases do as well or sometimes better than the cameras used to make the gallery photos from 10-20 years ago).

National Geographic photo gallery big prints

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61682138

Yesterday I was at a National Geographic photo gallery. It is very similar to the Peter Lik galleries with dim lighting, black walls, and big, beautiful, glossy, very well lit photos. Of course, they are trying to sell them so the presentation is very nice. The info for each photo was a short caption, location, year, name of photographer, and the size in meters (longest dimension) of the print. The smallest prints were 1 meter and the largest prints were 3 meters, but most were 1.5 and 2 meters. Most of the photos were taken 2004-2015, but I saw one that was in 1999 and another in 2002. A few of the photos were landscapes, but mostly animals in Africa and elsewhere. A few photos included people, but not many. I guess it is harder to sell people photos. Of course, they all looked wonderful and I think the prices are pretty high.

No mention of the camera gear used, but I suspect most of them were taken with DSLRs since the bulk of the photos were 2004-2015 of animals, often in Africa. National Geographic galleries believe they have enough megapixels to print 2 and 3 meter prints from DSLRs made even 14-15 years ago.

https://www.natgeofineart.com/

I think all the worry by some about whether a 20mp or 16mp (or even 12mp) m4/3 file is sufficient for fairly large prints is rather ridiculous.

Actually, most of the worry I see sometimes here about print size is asking about making something like 24x30 or 30x40 inch prints -- that is 0.762 meter or 1.016 meter prints. Just a very small number of the National Geographic prints were 1 meter. Almost all were 1.5 and 2 meters, but several were 3 meters. So, above where I say 'fairly large' that is not really correct. Most people asking and worrying about print sizes here are talking about the smallest or even smaller prints than what they have at the National Geographic photo gallery.

If you don't remember what were the common, high end Nikon and Canon DSLRs back in 2003, 2004, 2005 era that were probably used for many of the photos from 2004, 2005, and 2006 then look back and see. Nikon was selling only APS-C models, but Canon had FF, APS-H, and APS-C. And the megapixel counts would seem modest compared to current m4/3.

Later I received an email advertisement from the National Geographic Fine Art Galleries. In it there was a mention that their prints start at $4600. This 2010 one is $4900:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63169520

This 2007 one is $6750:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64219750
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Olympus is out...

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I think it's more about marketing and perception v what gets the job done. Sure back in ye old days the resolution was pretty modest and DR was certainly an issue, we've about a decades worth of blown out skies to attest to that ;-D. However at a certain point things get to a level where it's just more than adequate/good enough.
Camera makers do want to sell more gear so revert back to the usual routine of more pixels, more advanced eye AF and things like that, 30fps. It makes you wonder how anyone got a shot with manual focus lenses or pre motor-wind era - but they did albeit I'm sure timing was more important. Things about crop/FF is does the system become cross compatible, I often use FF lenses on APS-C. Hence I wonder how sustainable EOS-M is or how wise it is for Panasonic to have two systems, surely one will become the main focus. The crowded FF market seems a long shot for them.

I know quite a few people who are still using somewhat dated gear, and just have no interest in buying into the new swanky stuff, plenty of 5dMkII users who bagged a bargain camera used, some of the pro level bodies even my crop ones would easily out do them. But good enough is just that.
As for buying into a system, I just didn't fit the typical use some might have for micro 4/3. I didn't really see much advantage over APS-C, but I also regularly consider just selling off my crop gear and using FF only, some advantages to crop means it hasn't been got rid of yet. Point remains though I think price levels are a factor. There is no way I'd buy an XT4 when for the same or less I could buy a full frame - it's just a non starter from my perspective.

Sony have put a lot into marketing, Nikon have not and the results are there to be seen. Even though arguably that doesn't mean the final result is the best. Cameras like the A1 at 6.5K cost, even if someone paid for one and gave it to me for nothing, I would have no use for it I would simply sell it and do something else with the money! There are a lot of incorrect perceptions out there, I've seen a local photographer product stunning landscape photos and huge prints. He was using a 5d MkI mostly at the time, a mere 12mp camera. Yet a quick visit to sites/YouTube would lead you to believe even 24mp is just not good enough for fine art photography. That's you need a 40mp+ camera or should be using an A7RIV, until the new batch of 100mp FF bodies come out, and then how could you possibly go back to using a "low res" camera lol.

I mostly lost interest in the gear, other than trying an A6300 out for testing lenses - some good points aside it's a camera made by engineers, and not photographers. Nice tech wrapped up in a sub par user experience. I'll hang onto it (for a time) for the reviews I'm making with it, but it's not much fun to use - except the results are good. I would say it's fairly unlikely I'd ever buy any new gear or cameras again. The weird designs of modern cameras are not grabbing me much, they almost forget about the user experience entirely.
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bakubo
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Re: Olympus is out...

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Someone posted this link today.

Chief Technology Officer of OM Digital Solutions says: We plan to launch many products this year including one that will make you “WOW” by the end of this year

https://www.43rumors.com/chief-technolo ... e-you-wow/
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Olympus is out...

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Well lots of noise there so let's hope there is a "wow" couple of products this year. Makes you wonder why Olympus couldn't find the wow factor?
I know they're popular in Japan, from what I hear very popular - not sure how well they do elsewhere though. They do have the benefit of a pre-built system. If that pans out I'll have to move Pentax to my "no. 1 most likely to fail" company.
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Re: Olympus is out...

Unread post by classiccameras »

Although Micro 4/3 has a dedicated following albeit small compared to Canikon, it is on a global scale not that popular and people prefer APS-C for their lens versatility and huge used market. Olympus just seem to bring out the same bodies/format with more and more added tricks and gimmicks.
I'm surprised Pentax has lasted this long, May be there are going to be some amalgamations between the companies
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Olympus is out...

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Pentax have their new K3iii coming out this month evidently, and if the gossip is correct it's going to be at full frame prices or near there.
That's pretty certain to be an instant fail for them, bar the odd die hard hold out. Ricoh don't need Pentax they make a lot more money off office equipment and copiers v camera gear. There was a reason Hoya kept the Pentax medical division (and also why this is now what Olympus are doing and yes even Konica Minolta have fingers in that pie) - it makes money. In 2021 and beyond I'm still sticking to my predictions of another couple of casualties.
I'm putting Canon to get back to 1 spot, Nikon we're not sure on and long term Sony again look at their profits (buried deep in their quarterly returns for a reason).
I bet they hope the market recovers - but I can't see how that's going to happen. Prices are terrible on new gear, MILC turned up way after the boom times. It's all a bit late really ;-D. If I had a good zoom on my phone I'd probably offload the entire lot. If they can nail that I'm outta here!
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Re: Olympus is out...

Unread post by classiccameras »

Sony are a huge global media and entertainment company where their camera section is very small in the big scheme of things, They also make TV cameras used all round the world.
Its because of current 'silly' prices that I equipped my self with a used A 58 and 2 Minolta lenses, It seems they are all marketing Full Frame cameras which must be going to a very small section of photographic community, I don't see the marketing logic. I think Covid 19 has put paid to any any recovery in the industry
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Olympus is out...

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Prices will be good on A Mount gear, and even better now Sony have abandoned A Mount. At least from what I see some nice deals out there. Perhaps more so lenses - there will always be a good used market as there are a lot of A Mount lenses out there.
Covid did throw a large spanner in the works, it will be interesting to see what happens this year if things pick up, I'd be amazed if there is some kind of boom for camera gear.
I'm still pretty torn on my direction, from a cost perspective it makes a lot of sense to stay put and try to get my head around Sony's oddball designs. But I'm struggling to see if Sony are going in a direction I could warm to - it seems to have nothing in common with Minolta thinking. My problem is finding something I do like, little point in wandering off to another DSLR maker, that leaves only quite expensive gear even if I cut it down to a handful of lenses.
Jury is still out lol
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Re: Olympus is out...

Unread post by classiccameras »

It can be a bit of a quandary as what direction to take if any. Or stay as you are, I'm happy with the availability of Minolta lenses and their prices. I'm not a Pro or earn any money from Photography, its just a hobby which I get lots of pleasure from. I do belong to a local camera club, but I have seen so much snobbery on equipment in my life. Then you have judges who pixel peep pictures. I did point that if you are looking at a Monet or Rembrandt, you stand well back and take in the whole picture not how many brush strokes you can count per line mm.

In a way Olympus put all their eggs in one basket leaving no escape from M/4/3. They should have capitalised on the old 35 mm OM bodies and gone over to APS-C or even full frame. May have opened up new markets. I for one would jump at a APS-C Olympus, and of course there would be all those used Zuiko lenses. If Sony can do it with the old Minolta lenses then Olympus should have taken notice. Now they have the mirrorless technology it should be easier.

I know the original Olympus philosophy was to start their digital journey with a completely new system tailored to the 4/3 format, but when they wound up the 4/3 E system cameras it would have been a good opportunity to move to APS-C or even full frame. The Micro 4/3 system came about because of their obsession with 'small' and trying to re live past days of the OM cameras, Sadly, most people who buy M/4/3 have no idea of the heritage and reasons why or even seen and held an old OM camera, I did, An OM 2 N
As for Sony, I have a love hate relationship with A mount. I'm still loving my Canon 650D though and my Panasonic FZ 330 bridge camera, the 330 comes out most trips because its so useful and a joy to use.
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