A800 Rumor

[fastson]

I am visiting Japan and we had a very interesting meeting with some friends…

a800…
-15.2Mpx APS-C CMOS Exmor “R” sensor
- ISO 100-12.800
-6.5 frame per second
- New high speed flash sync
-9 double cross f/2.8 AF sensor (23 total AF sensor)
- New metering and AF sensor with tracking and previous focus
- Dual AF Ultr-Speed motor??
- Wi-Fi built-in

Will be announced ON PMA09 and launch ON April with 3 new DT lenses…

Interesting. Exmor R is the back illuminated CMOS sensor, I was hoping we would see it in a dSLR soon.

So how trustworthy is that site?

[pakodominguez]

Inch'Allah!
iof that means they will improve the A900 firmware soon...

[Dr. Harout]

Enough is enough. You will not persuade me...


When will it be announced, you said?

[PhotoTraveler]

The R sensor is the part that should bring a lot of question of the validity to this. From first press release, to spec sheets to working products the R sensors have only been on super tiny sensor, and those are what it was designed for.

Unless Sony has had a big shudden shift and is doing it on all their sensor, I put that highly unlikely and that makes me question the whole thing.

Most of the specs sound right, the pixel count, the speed. The motor thing is goofy. The name is curious too, since it is a 7 series body and sounds like the A700 replacement we expect, but using A800 on that verses just going A710 or A701 sounds a bit strange. But maybe it works. I really want to get to the point where we simply know how the Naming system will work when it comes to replacement bodies.

The 3 lenses sounds like it could be pulling from the info we got on a 1.8/50, 10-24, and 70-300 coming. Obviously 1 of those is APS, the 50 is said to be APS, and I would think the 70-300 would be too. Still, Sony needs a new kit lens, so maybe their is just a bunch more stuff.

I still say it's early for the A700 replacement, I say and A500 at PMA and a A700 replacement a few months later. Unless Sony is thinking they simply need to get the A700 replaced early I'm missing something. That or they are pushing the 7 series down to be advanced amature for good

So far I keep seeing random bits of this rumor which sound like the community building a platypus. Such as electronic shutter (doubt it), and LV with a tilting screen. LV I can deal with if it's done like the canon and nikons, but crippling a body with a stupid moving screen, gah. Of course LV with an electronic shutter works, but I would fear the blooming issues and so forth of cameras past.

Could be real, but I think someone is just having fun.

[David Kilpatrick]

It doesn't sound very realistic. It is possible that 6.5fps might be managed using Minolta AF lens couplings, but Sony did not implement anything faster than 5fps despite using windowed readout for the APS-C crop raws of the Alpha 900 (Nikon did). This was within their reach, they crop the raw data at source. But again, it may be that the larger mirror and shutter was the limit, not the lenses. Also, I am not sure that the physical size 9 f2.8 sensors could be fitted into an APS-C frame. They are almost four times as large as standard sensors, that's why every other camera system also has a limited number of f2.8 sensors - Nikon with its 51 sensor array does not have a single f2.8 sensor, they are all f5.6 (they just never say so). So it sounds made up. 9 cross-type sensors could be fitted, maybe even the double cross type, though again those are much larger than the standard ones. Also, for simple technical reasons, you can't place f2.8 sensors too far off the lens axis, they tend to be placed centrally because that's where they work best with the greatest range of lenses.

David

[David Kilpatrick]

Carl has been told that something new is due at PMA. He thinks these may be real specs. I think they could be partly real, partly invented or not correctly understood. The backlit sensor thing would be amazing if it turned out to be true, it would mean Sony had a whole secret fab line and an unannounced sensor type. Mind you, if that does out to be true, all our existing Sony DSLRs will be obsolete in a year or two.

David

[Dr. Harout]

...if that does out to be true, all our existing Sony DSLRs will be obsolete in a year or two.

David

One way or another they would've been. One of the differences between film and digital is that the former can be used as much as you like without upgrading it, as long as it works (think of Pentax spotmatic, Nikon FM2 and so forth), as for the latter, digital that is, there is always an upgrade for at least the sensor, so you have to change the whole body. That helps their business too (probably ).
It would have been nice to have a very sturdy body with interchangeable sensors... which might be in the future on Nikon and Canon (they told us that in-lens stabilization was better ), but I'm not sure with SSS bodies...

[Dusty]

Mind you, if that does out to be true, all our existing Sony DSLRs will be obsolete in a year or two.

David

Okay, I'll buy up those obsolete a900s at 10 cents on the dollar!

Dusty

[alexramos7]

Maybe the AF sensor be bigger than a700...

The D300 AF sensors are on a wide area than D3/D700/D3x, is probably these new AF sensors on "a800" will be used on a future new FF camera.

[David Kilpatrick]

Well, Sony has already done the impossible with the A900 - full frame plus an adjusted viewfinder to produce a perfect 100 per cent framing (more accurate than the Nikon D3X by the way, I've compared and the D3X focus screen crop can vary significantly from the position of the sensor). So they might do the impossible and fit a load of f2.8 sensors into place. The AF array would end looking like a fly's eye magnified.

David

[PhotoTraveler]

Here is some of my take on what we could be seeing, this could be the same kind of confusion we saw in the run up last year where we had a mix of bodies and specs got crossed.

I have said for a long time I expect and A500, with a A700 replacement due a bit later. We very well are seeing folks merge things some if any of this is true, mixed with a bit of speculation.

An A700 replacement will be 14-16MP, and it will probably have 100% view finder and some of these other specs. But we also see people talking about fold out screens and such. I think we might be seeing some specs that go to an A500 or a new entry level body. Not all of one body.

Stuff like the Exmor-R sounds like people are making assumptions based on Sony's newest video camera. What many people miss is the sensor in that camera is tiny couple MP sensor that is designed for video and cell phones (many of the Sony tiny CMOS sensors are both for Video Cameras and Cell Phones). Sony hasn't put anything out on Backlit sensors for large sensors. As David mentioned, backlit for the big sensors would be a big shift with no prior notice by Sony of this. I don't think any any of the press material they hinted to such a move, or commented on it being cheaper or easier to make.

An A700 reborn as an A500, with LV added to me is highly likely. But this would mean ditching the second sensor method, which I think Sony will ditch unless they do it again by ditching the OVF and keeping the mirror to give it phase detection AF and a bounce to the second sensor. Sony could plow ahead and skip 12MP for such a body due to Canon and Pentax/Samsung having more MP.

[bakubo]

Well, Sony has already done the impossible with the A900 - full frame plus an adjusted viewfinder to produce a perfect 100 per cent framing (more accurate than the Nikon D3X by the way, I've compared and the D3X focus screen crop can vary significantly from the position of the sensor). So they might do the impossible and fit a load of f2.8 sensors into place. The AF array would end looking like a fly's eye magnified.

Yes, and Sony also did the "impossible" and came out with a camera, A900, that has FF *and* SSS. Lots of internet "experts" claimed that was impossible. Actually, KM did the impossible too. Lots of internet "experts" claimed that an APS-C sensor and AS was also impossible back before the KM 7D came out. I have had the good fortune to have only worked with a very few of these self-limiting, it-can't-be-done types of people. As I have posted before, about 20 years ago I had something on my office wall that said:

Old Chinese Proverb

"Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man who is doing it."

No, idea about the rumors concerning a new Sony DSLR though.

[alphaomega]

I must admit I am getting confused. Some time ago there was a rumour that Nikon would release their D400 shortly with a Sony 16 Mp sensor and an Alpha would probably follow. I assumed that Sony were determined to match or exceed the sensor size and performance of the Canon 50D and they were quite happy to have Nikon join in on another pincher move on Canon as the common "enemy".

If there is anything in the rumour it would appear to me that Sony are looking for a technological innovation in the sensor to beat Canon on noise hence the 12,800 ISO upper limit. Sony may have decided that the best they could do with firmware upgrades would be to come close to Canon (and Nikon) rather than beat them, so why not use their superior sensor technology knowledge to deliver a "knock-out". I am purely speculating as I have absolutely no inside information.

What about A1000 keeping us posted???

[PhotoTraveler]

Witty quotes are one thing, but when Someone says something can't be done, and they are correct, not talking out their butt, they should be listened too. Sure lots of people say something can't be done and are wrong, they were talking true and just don't know what they are saying. Still others tell you it can't be done, and they are correct. (Sorry, I just hate the idea of quotes like the one previously mentioned, because it's a tool to doing things that can result in bad results if blindly applied).

In the case of SSS and FF, the idea of it not being possible was always non-sense with no actual support for the idea.

On to the Nikon, that was just another rumor, and largely a person guessing. It's not rocket science to guess that around Q2 of the year both Nikon and Sony will bring replacement for their APS semi-pro bodies. Nor is it a stretch to assume 14-16MP.

In reality, Sony and Nikon don't have a competition from Canon right now. Canon has no real Semi-Pro APS body. They have moved the #0D line into advanced amateur. Or course the current A700 is pretty close to there too. I don't see a Nikon D400 or Sony "Asemi-pro" competing with the 50D at all.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see sony's entry and advanced amateur bodies to have more pixels than their semi-pro body. Sony has this as is, I expect it to continue. Nikon will probably have the same as they will probably come out with a D60X with the 14MP sony CCD at PMA.

[Dusty]

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see sony's entry and advanced amateur bodies to have more pixels than their semi-pro body. Sony has this as is, I expect it to continue. Nikon will probably have the same as they will probably come out with a D60X with the 14MP sony CCD at PMA.

The Mega Pixel race is on! There can be no doubt that in the general consumer's mind, MPs are king. While we'll also see new technologies that reduce noise, improve dynamic range and light sensitivity, the main advances will be in MPs. At least until we get to the point that sensors out-resolve the lenses, or that the file sizes become too ridiculous to handle.

After we reach that point, minor add-ons will be the differentiating factors: FPS speed, video, LV, wireless and GPS. I can see a 30 - 40 MP prosumer camera in the not to distance future that offers ISO 50 - 16000, LV and GPS built in.

Dusty