Sony quality control problems

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Javelin
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:06 pm

Henry Yes! I was trying to dupicate what you say. and your right. I'm just in the habit now of letting the 5 second timer time out before I let the camera settle against me which worked fine for me. this has only been a problem since I got the G and my 28-138 lens. I normally carry the camera by the root of the lens (with the strap wrapped once around the hand) because I often have to navigate the camera through something where i'm walking and also so I know where it is so I can land under it if I fall (which reminds me of a forum post I made that horrified people on DPR I'll make a poll here, it'll be fun) But with these rear focus lenses it's way uncomfortable to carry like that so I'm sort of trying to work out something more comfortable, but in the mean time it's been around my neck, which is not well practiced yet... damn near killed the weiner dog last wheek when I stooped to pick her up and the camera swung down. But I have the habit now of just waiting for the timer to run out. I was going to experiment with the control lock and forgot all about it untill now you mentioning this.
Last edited by Javelin on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:13 pm

On the A700 the joystick as about where the Fn button is on the A200 and only sticks out.. well I can tell you eaxctly sec.. 5mm from the bezel. which seems like a lot except the screen is also off the bezel by 2.5mm and the meter mode switch sticks off 4.3mm so it doesn't seem like.. a "pimple on a ducks ass" ... it's more like the camera back is debossed from the buttons and doesn't seem to get in the way. and Don's right it sure makes the whole thing easier to operate in gloves or with frozen fingers for that matter,

bfitzgerald wrote:I was just wondering aka position of the joystick, being left eyed..it pushes my face across that area!

Hence my question. Any left eyed shooters around??
A200 and 5d joypad is somewhat lower. Any issues with nose jobs on the A700 :mrgreen:

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bakubo
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:39 pm

Sonolta wrote:FTR and IMO the Sony top plate button positions just suck (unless you are wearing gloves, which I never am). Sony should have used a different scheme because my fingers and thumbs do not easily bend in L shapes. I never had that L problem until Sony decided to redesign proven and time tested button layouts and arrays. Sony Quicknav is cool but I prefer to make almost all of my setting adjustments on the fly through the finder..via the buttons, dials, wheels, and knobs.


I am not a big fan of the A700 top plate buttons either. They say they were designed for use with gloves, but since I don't shoot with gloves that doesn't help me.

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:48 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:I was just wondering aka position of the joystick, being left eyed..it pushes my face across that area!

Hence my question. Any left eyed shooters around??


I am left-eyed. I don't use the joystick when I have the camera up to my eye. I never change the AF sensor -- always use the center one.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:27 am

I bet the A230 is fun to change AF point with :D

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonyelectr ... 542955854/

That guy spotted something I missed! No self timer light? So where is the IR receiver then??
And the front dial looks "really comfortable" :mrgreen:

I''m just reaching into my bag to get a feel of the 7 film..ah..back when companies knew how to do ergonomics :lol:

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:28 am

LOL...As I say they were? Ask DK. Ask Phil. Ask almost anyone that has ever used them


What? You don't know what you are talking about...The Dimage 7 series and the A series are HIGHLY regarded and were HIGHLY regarded. Those two series of cameras were the most professionally featured and spec'ed prosumers on the market. In-fact body based ANTI-SHAKE was INTRODUCED to the camera world with the Dimage A series!


Sure they were. but they didn't really figure in the market.. the main battle was Sony/Canon/Nikon and eventually became Sony vs Canon/DPR

Lets see what Phil says. lets start with the first Sony prosumer:

Sony DSC D700 1998/Recommended/ "Dull images require digital darkroom work"

Sony F55k First articulated body. Phil liked the sensor but data was lost in the database crash along with trashing peoples history and a lot of the forums. not considered a pro level camera despite the resolution. but was compared to the pro70 anyway

Sony 505 1999/ Highly recomended

Sony 505V 2000/Highly recomended

Sony F707 2001/Highly recomended

Dimage 7 2001/ recommended/ "I'd loved to have given the DiMAGE 7 a highly recommended rating, but I just can't ignore its shortcomings and problems, this leaves only one rating it really deserves"

Sony F717 2002/Highly recomended

7HI 2002/recommended/ "The DiMAGE 7Hi doesn't improve image quality (over 7I), which while good isn't up to the levels of the competition."

Dimage 7i 2002/Highly recommended/ The only darling of the bunch you mentioned according to Phil.

Sony V1 2003/Highly recommended (Phil himself put this one into the prosummer bracket)

A1 2003/recommended/ "Unfortunately it's not as easy as that, I put a lot of weight for my final conclusion on image quality. And that's where this otherwise unbeatable package is let down"

This is where DPR screwed KM Nikon and Sony and when DPR jumped the shark and started trying to shape the market they were supposed to be reporting on. They did 2 things. They started comparing these tiny sensor cameras to the DSLR's in the same reviews. Also at the end of the reviews for these cameras he points out that people should be looking at DSLR's in this price range.

A2 2004/recommended/ " I think the lens is being used beyond it's capabilities" everything else he said was praise

Sony F828 2004/ recommended "Where the F828 starts to disappoint is image quality, many observers had concerns about the very small pixel pitch of the camera's eight million pixel sensor knowing that it would most likely lead to noisier images"

Sony R1 2005/Highly recommended. To me the last prosummer. anything nowadays seems to be superzooms of lower quality.

I'm surprised you used Phil in your argument. He's only ever given 3 HR's to Minolta cameras in the whole history of DPR. and only one of them could be considered "prosumer" In every case where Sony got only a recommended they upped the ante with their next release


.
LOL...Sony put out the 7 series and then people started bitching at the 8 series..


Sony started with prosumers long long before the 707

M/KM produced several killer cams the Dimage 7, Dimage 7i, Dimage 7hi, A1, A2, were all KILLER prosumer cameras that were HIGHLY regarded, and even the A200 was a blaster.


KM delayed Minoltas entry into the digital market. they even had a head start with the RD175.. KM did nothing with the name or the line except maintenance. Those cameras should have been out 4 years earlier



Sony had the 7 and 8's and M/KM had the 7 and the A's...everyone knows the M/KM's offered more professional feature sets than the Sony's did.

Even Phil would agree. but as most of your posts here show. it's more about the IQ

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:55 am

Problem for Minolta users is..well erm Minolta ain't making cameras anymore!

Not that everything they did was perfect..it was not, but they has some great ideas, and pushed them over the years. Sony have yet to really do something similar. As much as I would love A mount to still be Minolta..it's now over to Sony.

If only they listened to user feedback...that's the biggest problem to date :!:

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:28 pm

You brought Phil up not me. I can't help you from looking like a fool you did care what Phil had to say when you thought no one would point out how badly he treated the cameras. You post reams of stuff everytime someone dissagrees you and it really sucks for you when someone uses your own sources prove you wrong. all I did was point out that Phil dissagreed with almost everything you said.. again he was YOUR example. The Cameras didn't sell Don.. KM failed and Sold out. They failed because they couldn't sell their ideas and never put any effort into the line.

I don't care how many highly recommended ratings Sony has at DPR, and I don't care what point and shoot peeps like you like to use for a camera.

-Sonolta


You need to get a clue..or stay out of discussions with photographers that are more than just daytime snap shooters...Some of us actually use things like SSS, AdobeRGB, Manual Focus, Wireless Flashes, etc, etc, etc....Sometimes it is a cameras specific feature set that allows you to capture an image in the first place...that's part of IQ. You do need to get that through your head.


Yawn... you have nothing to teach.


#2 Phil NEVER has GIVEN PROPER CREDIT to in body SSS....


You brought him up... Fool


A camera is only as good as the sum of all of it's parts and features and imaging qualities. Minolta and KM were designed much more as a craftsman's tool and not a slow raw writing IQ only machine...Again...if you miss the shot you have ZERO IQ. If you can't submit the shot you have ZERO IQ. If you can't focus a shot you have ZERO IQ.


If you don't have a camera you can't get any shots. KM stopped Minoltas advance into digital and never even tried to make one until it was to late and didn't bring enough goods to the table to compete when they did.


BOTTOM LINE HERE IS SONY NEEDED MINOLTA PEOPLE, TECHNOLOGY, FACTORIES, DESIGNS AND LEGACY LENSES TO LAUNCH A DSLR DIVISION....LOL IF SONY KNEW HOW TO BUILD A REAL STILL CAMERA THEY WOULD NEVER HAVE NEEDED TO PURCHASE KONICA MINOLTA...


Yes and..? And now Sony is Retooling KM's shortcommings into cameras that will sell. aren't you paying attention?


WHERE HAS THAT LASER FOCUS GONE LOL
erm.. FDA (CDRH compliance) is what happened.. whats your point? my 717 will focus faster in zero light on zero contrast scenes than any DSLR with AF lamps or flash assist AF.


Sony has not upped any ante....THEY are living off of Minolta tricks! Not Sony stuff...Think eye-start AF, think eye-start, think SSS, think traditional shaped cameras, think compact flash, think battery style, think flash systems, think remote systems, think legacy systems, think legacy lenses, DUH....Sony did not know beans about making a true photographer's tool. Yeah they got the R1 and the 7/8 series mostly correct...but those cameras did not have many of the features a lot of us needed.


Bought and paid for.. CF's gone. Infolitium beats anyone elses battery hands down. KM's flash system seems to be broken (don't worry Sony's in the process of redesigning it and still supporting some of the broken stuff) And this is still the early days for Sony. in perspective KM spent more time with their fingers in their ears while everyone else made digital cameras.

YOU sir are a Sony fanboy and always will be a Sony fanboy!


This is an alpha site I belong here.. gonna get mad an run away again ?


Again every one of the Sony's had control wheels and they never came up as an issue until KM came along.. Sony has always taken care of their problems. you like to bring up the CCD recall a lot... which is a great example. if this wheel probem becomes as wide spread expect it to be looked after.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:38 pm

Sorry Javelin, it's too crude to say they "didn't sell"

5d sold well so I heard. Ever hear of the Konica merger, that's what really stuffed things up for Minolta.
Yes they were late to market DSLR wise as well, that was also a factor.

But I will say, Sony are heading in a direction where I couldn't give a damn how many units they sell, if they don't make products I like..I don't care! End user, just cares about end product, not selling crippleware to soccer moms.

What kind of company puts a product out without an AEL button? I want to know how folks are going to lock exposure in CW and spot metering..not my idea of fun. IMO Sony are heading in the exact wrong direction to what I like, and making money or not..is not my measure of "good"

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:53 pm

"not selling crippleware to soccer moms."

Haw! good one BF

What kind of company puts a product out without an AEL button? I want to know how folks are going to lock exposure in CW and spot metering..not my idea of fun. IMO Sony are heading in the exact wrong direction to what I like, and making money or not..is not my measure of "good"

Probably the same company that doesn't know the difference between a ring light and a ring flash, I'd say.
Greg

ps As far as quality control goes, so far I can't complain about my two cams.......zero problems on either my KM5D or A100, touch wood.
And regarding the advent of the KM DSLR's, it seemed the bringing to market a 6MP cam at a time when Canon already had their 8MP out there and thinking about releasing their rumoured 10MP in the not too distant future, it was too little too late in marketing terms, even if they were damn fine cams with some more advanced/ergonomic features than the current 'comparable' opposition,ie. AS, 2.5" large rear screen (Cannon 1.8" for example) that had easy to see flip-flop menus/settings, eye start, KM colour, great lens list, the moment that most punters realized they were yesterdays news in the Megapixel war they tended to wander off in the general direction of Canon or Nikon, and KM did announce that the situation as far as they were concerned, would most likely not improve much in the future as far as always playing catch-up goes, being dependant on external chipmakers, (ie. good ol' Sony, who would never play hard ball or use that as leverage for the acquisition of the A-mount) for all aspects of sensor technology.

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:12 pm

Sorry Barry your right it is a crude way of putting it. But I replying in kind. I actually have nothing against the KM cameras they wewre just too obscure for me to buy into. the 5D and 7D are great cameras I just didn't want another SLR so they were never on my radar.

Feature set on cameras that are far simplistic for the people here don't really matter. we aren't who they are for. you would really like the A700 .. you have an A200 which aside from the little niggles you complain about I think you like quite a lot, which I imagine will serve you for some time to come. Don't forget those were the very first Sony on their own DSLR's I'm willing to let some stuff slide and continue to put up with Sony's tightlippedness (I claim this word as mine) just because they are new in a feild there not top dog in. I'm not going to complain about their marketing decisions untill there is shown a proven failure, how Can I . I don't have enough information. they make sensors for everyone and know precicely what the market is biuying how can I second guess that even if it's not producing something I want. If whatever they do continues to strengthen their position then so be it. When they do chace Canon in earnest they will have the base and resources at hand.

bfitzgerald wrote:Sorry Javelin, it's too crude to say they "didn't sell"

5d sold well so I heard. Ever hear of the Konica merger, that's what really stuffed things up for Minolta.
Yes they were late to market DSLR wise as well, that was also a factor.

But I will say, Sony are heading in a direction where I couldn't give a damn how many units they sell, if they don't make products I like..I don't care! End user, just cares about end product, not selling crippleware to soccer moms.

What kind of company puts a product out without an AEL button? I want to know how folks are going to lock exposure in CW and spot metering..not my idea of fun. IMO Sony are heading in the exact wrong direction to what I like, and making money or not..is not my measure of "good"

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:54 pm

Well we can complain, to a point.
A200= Dirt cheap = Reason I bought it. I can just about live with the missing stuff...just, for the price...which was very good. Enough there for the money. I would have paid a bit more for the stuff I miss, but not loads more. I will say that.

A230/330/380 EU prices are not very good right now, even more cut down..too small, silly newbie help stuff that is frankly insulting to most folks. Not meant for me fine, but if I could live with the A200..why not have the bargain camera that is appealing to new and current users? Instead we are likely to get sony trying to upsell some of us to the not yet seen A500 series. And how much is that gonna cost?? £600-£700??? Bit of a difference between £250 and that..

The bargain decent enough not too badly featured camera is now dead, that's not something to celebrate. Sony are mistakenly trying to make the SLR fit P&S users, and yet the SLR was always for the more interested in photography folks, a serious error IMO. I would not be shocked if they got laughed off the review sites. The need not have chopped out even more stuff..it's not hard to make cameras easy to use. Even stupid things like the FPS, instead of making the A380 3fps, they downgrade the entire line-up to 2.5fps! Huh!!! :shock:

If we end up with D5000 A500's, with just a silly sensor change, minus of course video..we could have 5 models which have about as much appeal as a dead cat soup for Sunday dinner :twisted: And the prospect of dumping the best part of £1000 for a camera that isn't toymaster influenced. Sony will lose a lot of users if that situation happens. Let's hope it does not..
I am not optimistic..

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:41 pm

I dont expect to have a D5000 featured camera yet. I really think Sony won't do video untill they can have a feature the other guys don't have like they did with live view and the focusing. it'll be interesting for sure when this 500 and whatever happens in September is released and should indicate what their timeline is like for the higher end stuff.

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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby Javelin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:54 pm

LOL! bet you spit on your screen ..

Sonolta wrote:Javelin...you are the biggest hack idiot on this forum....you never have had a clue and you never will have a clue. Your a f'n know-nothing Sony fanboy pNs puke and you know it. You never will have a clue and why DK allows you to post your lies and nonsense on the board is beyond me. The biggest problem with you is you would not know what a good camera was even if it were dangling from your neck. You are a MP race pNs moron plain and simple...

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2535&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p23147

-Sonolta

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artington
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Re: Sony quality control problems

Unread postby artington » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:23 pm

Whew! Hard to tell amongst the red and green print whether the control wheel issue has been forgotten over the course of this thread.

If not, and assuming this link doesn't already appear somewhere in the thread, here are some suggestions from Dyxum

http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/a700-front- ... 44702.html


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