what is the real advantage of the alpha system

[KevinBarrett]

I have to agree and say that the a700 is the best feeling camera I've ever held, with the exception of the a900 (which I held only for a moment). The controls are fast and intuitive, relying more on muscle memory than menu diving than most other cameras out there.

The vertical grips for their respective Alpha cameras continue the philosophy of "more is better" for switchgear, and enhance the experience by giving an ergonomically contoured hand grip that the competitors can't even approach.

Then there are so many other things little and big, that are awesome, combining to create the whole ergonomic experience; SSS in the body, dual cross center AF point with F/2.8 sensor, DRO, percentage battery life in the LCD display, quick navi menu, etc...

[peterottaway]

I own both a Nikon F100 and a D90 both of which are always now on centre weighted exposure rather than Nikon matrix exposure because then I know what is going on with the exposure calculations. A major stuff up is my fault rather than a rogue error by the camera.

I find over many different lighting situations the Alpha system to be much more consistant.

[Dr. Harout]

I personally thank Phototraveller for his wonderful explanation and input. Now I have an extra item to use against C/N fans here. Though I have to admit I have an eye on Pentax (specially K7)

[Greg Beetham]

Thanks for that PT, I'd already heard that it was a bit of a struggle for anyone with KM/Sony experience too get used to the Nikon control interface but I didn't realize it was that bad. Hard to comprehend that the PASM control dial doesn't work like the KM one...how does it work then?
I thought that both Canon and NIkon were beginning to copy the KM interface with the rear flip flop prox sensor settings screen, amazing that the D700 doesn't have that, it's a fairly recent model too.
And yes I totally agree with you on the on/off switch, that is definitely going backwards putting it around the shutter button, I always liked the Minolta design where you could turn it on with your left thumb while already having the index on the shutter, and being able too glance down to see if you had left it on or off, not so with the shutter button switch and the camera hanging from your neck and a lens that makes it tilt down, as most of mine do.
Lets hope this is not a sign of things to come for the more advanced models.
Greg

[PhotoTraveler]

To change PASM you have to hold a mode button and turn the rear control dial. There is no knob-dial like KM-Sony's, it's basically "in the menus", not a physical control like most cameras. So you look at the top LCD and see it saying "P" and start wondering how to change it.

Once you figure it out, it's not that big a deal (not that I leave A very often), but it's a real head scratcher to just pick up the camera and figure that out.

I basically look at cameras as something if you understand the fundamentals of photography (Focal Lengths, DOF, how ISO/Shutter/Aperture interact, and various other such items), then you should be able to pick up any camera, and within a short time know how to use it. I think this was very true with manual focus cameras, and probably fairly true with at least early AF cameras. But it's clearly not the case with some new DSLRs.

[Greg Beetham]

Seeing as how you brought the GPS subject up PT, Sony must have heard you on the subject before and now are offering a couple of the new models with accessory GPS units...here at least. I haven't had time too find out how it works or how good it works etc.
Greg
http://www.sony.com.au/productcategory/ ... slr-camera

[PhotoTraveler]

Actually, they haven't been listening at all. And the item you link to is an anti-solution. It's actually worse than a solution, because they think it's the answer and thus they won't do things right.

See, that is a GPS tracker. It does not plug into the camera as it should. It makes a track during the day. Then you have to sync them later. And this is where is gets worse still. The software is Windows only (no mac support). And it only works on JPEGs (no RAW support). So it's worthless in at least 5 different ways. 1) doesn't connect to camera direct 2) Involves after the fact work 3) No mac 4) No raw 5) High potential for not working.

As long as Sony makes such things, they won't be making proper GPS support. How and why they created such and idiotically stupid way of doing things when they integrate GPS into just about every other product the make defies all comprehension.

For GPS today, I need to use a different tracker, and find a mac based tool that writes to raw. This gets GPS, solves the mac and raw problem. But has other issues, such as now trusting some 3rd party to fuss with my RAWs which makes me nervous. It still has the chance for things to go wrong, it's still a tracker. It doesn't have ability to do direction either. Also means separate batteries.

So I most definitely have to give Nikon this one. Just plug the device in, turn on the command for GPS recording and go. It's very very simple and just works. Plus Nikon sells a GPS, but you can also by 3rd party units which is what I had. The GPS was one of the simplest and nicest parts of the whole thing, just works. Only building the GPS into the camera would work better, and Nikon of course does that on the P6000.

My real hope is that the new higher end models A500/A550 "A730" "A930" etc bring a change to this problem.

[UrsaMajor]

I personally thank Phototraveller for his wonderful explanation and input. Now I have an extra item to use against C/N fans here. Though I have to admit I have an eye on Pentax (specially K7)

If you follow Michael Reichman's web site (Luminous-landscape.com), in each of his reviews of Minolta/Sony cameras since the A2, he has commented that they are among the few cameras he has encountered that appear to be designed by people who actually use cameras to take pictures. He has often compared the Minolta interface favorably with that of Canon, which buries commonly used features a couple of layers deep in the menu system - and has asked on several occasions when Canon will learn how to design a good user interface.

FWIW, after using Canon DSLR cameras for a number of years, he has switched to two A900 cameras, plus a set of Zeiss lenses. I'm not certain exactly how the traffic at his web site compares with that at other photography web sites,but I am reasonably certain that it is in at least the top 10% in terms of the number of readers. I suspect that Sony has been turning handsprings over Michael's very public switch from Canon to Sony last year - especially since Michael makes a big point of always buying his equipment at retail.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[Greg Beetham]

Okey doke PT my bad, I thought it would be a lot more functional than what it apparently is, non sync is almost worthless.
Greg

[Filmmaker]

The real advantage of the Alpha system is the company that is backing it up. Sony! World's most advanced sensor maker. World's foremost miniaturization specialist. World's biggest camcorder maker; 99% of studio film productions are made with Sony digital cinema cameras. With the starting of convergence of video and photography functions, Sony will eventually be the leader. It was Sony, the word's biggest CCD maker, that used CMOS first in video cameras. They are the first to use rear illuminated CMOS. From the type of lenses they are bringing out it is clear that they are moving primarily the FF and pro direction. So expect quite extended FF product range, both below and above A900. If Alphas have worse low light performance, maybe they have different design criteria or are not as commercial as Canon, which will make cameras the way they will be reviewed better, whether Sony's better in most shooting and real life situations, where you don't need superior low light performance, where you look at prints, not the computer screen, or maybe they are still learning their priorities. But they will excel. hey will definitely march to their own drum.

In their best professional video cameras they still use CCD's - on cameras from $20-200K; in less expensive stuff they moved to CMOS. When they are threatened with a competing system, they come out with a better system. They don't come the the discussion boards to push their stuff. They instead come out with superior stuff and let it speak for it self. Sony is a company with class.

Now, in each product category they are in, they cover the whole range, from the cheapest to the top of the class. One exception is Sony Ericsson, where they have straight 50% and can't call the shots alone. DSLR's are an extension of their P&S line, just as R1 once was. It too excelled over their competition.

They are in the high end in every product category they produce. They are in high end audiophile audio. No major audio manufacturer is. They are in high end video with their digital cinema cameras. They make the best digital cinema projectors. The ones in theaters are primarily either 2 MP Christie, or 8 MP Sony. Look at their microphone line. They make top class professional microphones, used by major studios for tens of years. Check ebay, which new studio microphones are most expensive, and the best at the same time. See how many microphones are there from each manufacturer. Sony is the only major electronics manufacturer that makes quality microphones. They pioneered the electret condenser microphones. Before that they made the world's best condensers. In the 60's Sony microphones started to replace Neumans in recording studios. They sounded better than the word's best brand at that time.

So what can we expect from Sony in DSLR's? Wide range of products. From the cheapest to the most esoteric, but they will not rush. So far they just put out some models to satisfy Minolta lens owners and not to lose market share. The major introductions of products with superior video function are still being designed.

The SSS is an advantege. Each lens is stabilized, and probably can be made a lot more reliable, because the part that is moving most is missing. You change bodies. You keep lenses.

Add the new Sony Zeiss lenses and you'll see that Sony is moving steadily in the FF pro direction.

So if you are serious about photography, with Sony you are in good hands. If you don't like Sony and want the copier brand, I'm sure Sony would care less.

[PhotoTraveler]

Oh well, time will tell on what sony does.

Okey doke PT my bad, I thought it would be a lot more functional than what it apparently is, non sync is almost worthless.
Greg

Ursamajor,

Yes, I think MR has done a lot for promoting the system. I think his site is good in that many of the right people look at it (serious shooters/pro's) and I think camera makers pay attention to him, as they know he is a user, not a reviewer. In many ways, he is the anti-dpr. DPR reviewers I often feel don't use cameras. They are deep in their charts and graphs. They have preset ideas of what controls should be, and skip along, and if you aren't like a Canon or Nikon, your wrong in design. Just look at the things they have found negative over the years, and the far stretches of problems "my nose hits the button", really? a 3rd gen of a chassis that has had the same basic placement for 3 years and it's suddenly a problem and does come up with it's sister bodies, and we now learn the bulk of the DPR staff is left handed and looks in cameras using their left eye??? I don't think DPR staff do a good job of going into a camera clean, and just letting it show them how it works. And as a result, sony is butchering the low end models to make them more DPR-able.

MR on the other hand clearly picks up new cameras with a fresh mind. And it's not a fake liking. Have an email back and forth with him, he is a real person and gets Minolta-Sony cameras. MR uses the gear, he drops whole systems cause someone did it better. I really like that. Of course, it won't be long and he very well will up and drop the Sony stuff. But will be fun while it lasted. MR gets things like what works in the field, what is important. And I think he has converted a few people to Sony. I really hope Sony listens more to folks like him than folks like DPR.

But you can read other forums when MR covers something on Sonys, people go after him like he is full of it. How dare he point out flaws of C or N. It's always an excuse. No different than DK finding issues with gear. Anytime DKs work gets linked to say a Nikon forum, even if it's not on this site, someone will catch on it's a DK, and then try to get the mob to invalidate what DK says. I don't always agree with DK, but I definitely find him balanced between the brands.

It's these problems that cause the advantages of Sony (minoltas) system to be hid from people. And that's the real shame. By the time people catch on to what Sony had, sony will have messed it all up trying to make the system canon, nikon like.

[PhotoTraveler]

Filmmaker,

Well, Sony in the end is really a very keen electronics house. In college for one of my degree, it covered various case studies of companies and how they conquered. Sony was the primary example very often. Where they rule is platforms. The develop a platform and per-mutate over and over. They get ideas for the future lined up. Every time the competition gets close, they can just deploy some of them and just always be one step ahead (but always with ideas in reserve, only using just as much as needed). This cases the competition to work double hard, which just burns them out, in staff and money, and they are still behind so they don't make the money back. I assure everyone that Sony has the lineup of alphas planned way far out. And at any moment they can change the plan to react to what the competition does. That's how they work. They leverage platforms. We have seen it now with the entry levels. The took a 5D platform, had KM tweak it to make an A100. Sony then tweaked it to make A200/300/350. Then in a short time they tweaked it again to make A230/A330/A380. The short life of the previous models is very expected. This is what Sony did with Walkmans, Diskmans for ages. It was the same thing, just tweaked constantly, spawning endless models. All cheap to do, and kept folks buying new ones (apple has since learned and mastered this). You see this in many Sony products. Everyone should expect Sony to bring out new entry level models every 12 months, and the changes be minor, often cosmetic. The current models were probably due for PMA launch, but was pushed back do economy. With almost absolute certainty, they will be replaced next PMA.

Sony has probably shifted so much production into japan simply because they are using their plants, plants which they have optimized and set up just for such things. No one should be surprised by short lifted products. They discontinued the 24-105 shortly into it's life. The 55-200 was barely here when they bring out the new SAM model. They put a fair bit of effort into updating the 2.8/28. It will be gone with the 2.8/30DT out.

Also noticed how they made 3 models from one for the entries. And 2 are identical aside from pixel count. It looks like the A500/A550 will be the same. We could even see an "A730/A780" run in time. Make more models from the same thing is the sony way. Hopefully they will put this to better use and give us things like monochromatic (B&W only) versions and such. We see Sony make special color versions, because they can. Give them another year or 2, they could have 10-15 current production models out there.

[Filmmaker]

Sony's only problem is that they were mismanaged after their founder had a stroke, but they are coming back now with full force. All, and I mean ALL companies that competed with Sony in electronics learned fast that they could not and that they had to play second fiddle. Now the situation is a little different; it was only a temporary management, or rather mismanagement, glitch.