A500/550

[Filmmaker]

My guess:

Sony introduced some new technology in HX1, which allows to take a quick series of shots. These are combined in software to reduce noise in the final picture. This is the feature which Sony will bring to their other platforms, and also the auto panorama mode. These features will be added to the new A500 series cameras, demonstrated at the Twilight Football games. Don't expect EXMOR-R!

The low light performance will be excellent, but again, just as with HX1, don't expect the little canon boys at the major review site to determine in their tests that that is the case.

The 500 series will have similar magnification mirror box as A100.

Both models will have the Sony's tilt-screen LV.

A500 will be 14 MP; A550 will be 18 MP.

Don't expect anything of A700 quality.

Sony attacked the low end market quite successfully the last time. Now they are going after the next bracket. They want market share first.

The A700, A800, A900, A1000 series will continue to be of a different built quality.

I still predict that Sony plans to have 10 models, It started with 1, dropped to about 7% market share; now we have 5 with about 13% share; soon will have 7 models, and eventually 10 with 25% market share. Canon and Nikon will have some 35% each. Note that Sony is bringing to their products mature new technologies, not LV and video modes that are more or less useless, as Canon and Nikon do. Add the growing advantage of Zeiss!

A100 (future model, no OVF)
A230
A330
A380
A500
A550
A700
A800 (future FF)
A900
A1000 (future pro model)

Sony can't bring out A100 before announcing A1000 because without A1000, Alpha image would be degraded.

[01af]

Doh. Just another childish crystal-ball thread ...

[alexramos7]

My guess...

Is is true and Sony bring the 500 serie with two models, a500 and a550, I think them will be:
a500 = mirror, LV 2nd sensor, tilting LCD and same CMOS on D90/D5000
a550 = same but with the a350/a380 CCD
Both cameras with video and close to a700 design.

Yes, I think Sony will continue with 700 serie and the a700 could have a substitute with a new APS-C CMOS sensor, maybe 14MPx, LV and video. No tilting LCD. This camera would have the same a700 design with a better OVF and AF system.

a800 FF and < $2000?? I don´t know but I think a FF will be here soon with a new "kit FF lens" Sony 28-75mm SAM

[alphaomega]

I really do not want to speculate on the specs for the A500/550 heralded, but from all the talk about photographing football in twilight there is something on the go indicating that the A500/550 may have improved higher or high ISO capabilities. I think that Filmmaker is probably overplaying a bit but there may be something in the thinking that these new models may be more Sony than Minolta and it will be very interesting to see what that entails in terms of new technology. Going by the A300/380 it would be reasonable to assume that they would feature different Mp size sensors. They may simply be identical apart from the sensor Mp rating for manufacturing simplification and costs. On the other hand they may both feature a new sensor and one have video at a higher price point.

[bfitzgerald]

Well like it or not he might be right!

I have a feeling both are LV models, and both with have better VF's than the entry LV ones. (frankly they have no choice, they won't cut if for mid point)

Honestly this is not what I am looking for at all, 18mp!! Hmmm...I hear the screams of "Sony, King of noise!"
If this is true, and these are just pumped up LV models, then Sony risk losing a load of users, they need some meat in the mid point, and bits of the A700 as well. Users most likely won't be impressed.

As time rolls on it's starting to look like "real sony SLR's" start at the A700 and the new model, which is a shame. Sony are a bit Nikon ish, but ask any serious Nikon users, and they know the company is very strong semi pro and up, weak at the entry level. I hope we get something D90 ish..I doubt it though.

[Greg Beetham]

Well as far as I'm concerned if Sony brings out a proper 5 series camera, one with video (don't care), and one without, I'll be happy, and those who want video will be happy as well....maybe....again don't care.
If Sony does bring out two cameras it'll answer the question of how important video is too people buying this class of camera, of course the results still could be misleading, Sony could even out the costs and have the two not much different in price, making those who buy the non video version pay for some of the cost of the video version, then maybe quite a few will choose the video version just to have it to dabble with for not much extra in cost.
If they can perform a few minor miracles and make a DSLR 'with' video that is actually useful for offhand video and not incur any penalties to it being a good still camera I might even buy one....
Greg

[KevinBarrett]

I'm guessing it will be a700-level control and functionality but with an inexpensive (plastic) body. Slower burst rate (4-ish) and slower maximum shutter speed (1/4000). It may also have an updated image stabilization with "electronic roll stability" as is offered in the Handycams, but I'm uncertain if that is lens-based or sensor-based.

I couldn't care less about the sensor, I've no reason to believe it will have a higher resolution than any current design...probably either the 14.2 MP CCD or 12.24 MP CMOS. Remember when they put the same sensor in 3 generations of entry-level cameras? Yeah, I'm not sure Sony is in the megapixel war anymore.

The number differentiation could be a video model and a non-video model, or, as is historically the case, a higher and lower resolution model, the latter does not rule out the possibility that they both are video capable. Video capability is exciting not only because DSLRs offer a uniquely large format for that media, but because video almost certainly means main sensor live view, and in turn, a less compromised optical viewfinder.

[Filmmaker]

Follow what Sony did with A300 and 350. 50 extra numbers in the model No., 4 extra MP's. 18 MP will put them in the top of the MP race in APS-C. It costs them basically the same to make either model, but allows them to sell one for more. Technology is marching on and Sony may be able to squeeze as little noise from 18 MP as previously from 14. The new cameras will use CMOS.

I think the low light performance is overrated. If 99% pics are not taken in low light and if the camera can produce better normal light pictures, it may be an advantage. Look at the 5DII vs. A900 performance. It fits this scenario. Unfortunately the major review little canon boy site does not see it that way. Of course, if the brand performance would be the other way around, little canon boys would have a different philosophy and would be screaming Canon good, Sony bad, Canon noise good, Sony noise bad, Canon noise very film-like, Sony noise too phony! Phony Sony!. Canon good! Add the fact that all Sony lenses are stabilized and you now have Sony low light advantage - if you average all the lenses out. The little canon boys are just too corrupted to see it differently. It always comes down to money. If Sony would be putting in salesman's pockets the spiffs that Nikon does, they would be recommending Sony.

Every time Sony makes a prosumer or pro video camera in the low to medium pro price point - $3 to $40k, it always does it in pairs. We'll see the same thing in DSLRs.

As for lower quality and less features on the A100-A500 series? Actually Sony's philosophy is very similar to Minolta's. Minolta too cheated the low end models. You had to get higher Minolta models to get DOF preview - compared to Canon. Minolta was always very innovative. So is Sony. So it may not be so much that Sony continues with Minolta philosophy, but rather that the philosophy is the same. KM 5D being different from A200? Minolta would had moved in the same direction.

Sony IS gearing up for higher pixel count. That is one of the reasons the kit lenses were upgraded. See the march stopping at 100 MP for FF. It will actually be 2x the current pixel count with the ClearVid pixel pattern. Sony will be the first one with a 100 MP camera. It may sound like a joke now, but it is already achievable and Sony has always somewhere on the shelf a prototype to up the competition with something. Just as Minolta, Sony is a very innovative company.

I have a feeling both are LV models, and both with have better VF's than the entry LV ones. (frankly they have no choice, they won't cut if for mid point)

Honestly this is not what I am looking for at all, 18mp!! Hmmm...I hear the screams of "Sony, King of noise!"
If this is true, and these are just pumped up LV models, then Sony risk losing a load of users, they need some meat in the mid point, and bits of the A700 as well. Users most likely won't be impressed.

As time rolls on it's starting to look like "real sony SLR's" start at the A700 and the new model, which is a shame. Sony are a bit Nikon ish, but ask any serious Nikon users, and they know the company is very strong semi pro and up, weak at the entry level. I hope we get something D90 ish..I doubt it though.

[Greg Beetham]

Thing is there are so many problems in putting video into a DSLR, as David pointed out sound is one of them, if the onboard mike is the only means of sound then it picks up all the sounds that DSLR's make by manner of operation, focus noises, mirror noises, shutter noises, button press noises, even zooming the lens most likely, so either you turn the sound off or have a sound guy that can record the sounds seperately and add them in later, or as Barry said, have a cable boom mike mounted with a non sound/vibe transmitting mounting.
Then like you say Kevin, there is the rolling shutter effect, from what I've read it's in the sensor with the way it's scanned in a DSLR from top to bottom, so if you pan (especially with a telephoto lens) you get an in frame distortion from top too bottom (the bottom half of things displaced sideways), then there is the problem with focus, with rather shallow depth of field (in comparison to a video cam) the subject has to remain in focus at all times, no easy task when the subject/s are moving all the time and the camera doesn't have full time AF and the ability too remain focussed on the subject regardless of movement.
Then there is composition, if there is no power zoom the composition might not be ideal either, and may be difficult too adjust on the fly whilst keeping an eye on the AF side of things.
I still haven't heard how the frame rate is affected by light conditions, ie. what frames per sec you are able too achieve at what ISO at a given EV at a given f-stop. (look Olaf I've got it right twice now)
So all in all it will be fun to watch.
Greg

[bakubo]

Follow what Sony did with A300 and 350. 50 extra numbers in the model No., 4 extra MP's. 18 MP will put them in the top of the MP race in APS-C.

Are there lots of lenses out there that can benefit from 18mp or even more in APS-C?

Sony IS gearing up for higher pixel count. That is one of the reasons the kit lenses were upgraded. See the march stopping at 100 MP for FF. It will actually be 2x the current pixel count with the ClearVid pixel pattern. Sony will be the first one with a 100 MP camera. It may sound like a joke now, but it is already achievable and Sony has always somewhere on the shelf a prototype to up the competition with something. Just as Minolta, Sony is a very innovative company.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essay ... wall.shtml

If someone produces a 35 mm full frame camera with 100 Megapixels, beware. Given the limitations of the wavelength of light, no lens can live up to that resolution. I suggest that the Megapixel race is over. Marketing people may produce one of these cameras, but no physics expert will buy one.

[Filmmaker]

How about if Sony implements the video (high speed electronic shutter) functionality properly and uses it to take a few frames before you press the shutter? Forget getting real video, but it could start recording frames the moment you touch the shutter, or put your eye to the viewfinder. And how about having the ability to add video sequences to your still pictures, or in between shots, from which you could also extract frames later? The shutter speed would not be anything spectacular, but it could be OK for most shots, and you'd have a lot less missed pictures. Let's see how innovative Sony gets. As for microphone noise. Here's a solution: Taped-on wireless shotgun microphone to the photographer's head. Just don't grind you teeth or pop a gum, and hide well, so the anti terrorist squad does not shoot before you do.

I think that you could get 100 MP from primes with a new mount, with close distance of the rear element to the sensor. OVF would have to go, but I still believe that 100 MP and video function that takes pictures before you do will be the way future cameras will be. Your shot will not be tied to a pint in space and time. You could extract a frame before you push the shutter and you could use a small section of the whole picture and still have excellent resolution. The Japanese plan for decades ahead. I'm sure they already envision 1GP cameras. 100 MP is so much turn of the century stuff.

With EXMOR-R and future digital processing and other technologies, the FF cameras will take place of today's MF and LF ones. EVF will give better low light visibility than OVF. The mirror box will become history! 100 effective MP from a 50 MP FF sensor will be the future 35 mm FF standard. Just a guess. Maybe it will be 3D too with 4th dimension of time, 5th dimension of smell... Stinking Canon! I would not want to look at their pictures!

[Greg Beetham]

As long as they leave me with the choice of a nice quality plastic bodied still camera 'with' an OVF that is somewhere between the A100 and A700, an AEL button and a DOF button that works like the ones on my A100, add an x-sync socket that the A100 didn't have (a seperate ISO button like on my KM5D would be nice), 12 or 14MP low noise sensor....fix the Macro flash system and I'll be perfectly happy....
They can build a 100MP video capable DSLR if they want, but I'll just watch from a safe distance.
Greg
ps. Some attention too the requirements of the travel/sports/nature photographer in the lens department would be good also, ie. a couple of high quality f4's would be nice, at least let us have a confirmation on the 24-105 G SSM f/4 that was rumoured, is it real or not? and when is the 400mm f/4 going to be announced?

pps. BTW I never even touched on the issues of processing power, bus band width, storage, battery usage and probably most important of all a real time fold out EVS like you get on an actual digicam....we'll let the angle adjustable EVF slide for the moment.

[bfitzgerald]

As for lower quality and less features on the A100-A500 series? Actually Sony's philosophy is very similar to Minolta's. Minolta too cheated the low end models. You had to get higher Minolta models to get DOF preview - compared to Canon. Minolta was always very innovative. So is Sony. So it may not be so much that Sony continues with Minolta philosophy, but rather that the philosophy is the same. KM 5D being different from A200? Minolta would had moved in the same direction.



Hmm so what decade are we working in here? 300si era?

Let's take the 3L, 4 and 5 series...not the last gen of film bodies, but still recent enough. 3L was indeed pointless crippleware P mode auto shooting only, the 4 was decent with a plastic mount, minus DOF preview, fewer AF points, slower FPS and other 5 features etc. Then the real deal started at the film 5, which was a mere £200 I believe with a kit lens.

Have a look about, you will find a significantly higher number of film 5's, than 4's. Reason is the 5 was only a "bit" more (I think £40 odd) than the 4. So guess what most people bought?? Oh it's got a DOF preview as well. The only 2 features it did lack (of any significance) were MLU and DMF.

I know back then some folks who bought a film 7 back then were unhappy, complaining the 5 was "too well featured for the price", and we got exactly the same thing with the 5d v 7d. I am not talking handling, but features spec etc.

So £200 buys you a DOF preview on an 8 year old film camera, well more like £20 now on ebay

Today, the A200 is the only passable choice for budget shooters who want something decent ish. My views on sony ripping out MLU and spot metering AEL toggle, DMF etc still hold, but..the price is good. When the A200 is gone, you have the even worse spec A230 as the only choice..unless you want to pay more for the LV ones (which are still weedy on spec and features). I very very much doubt Minolta would have gone back to P mode ultra cut down cameras, and no maker would dare do that nowadays. It might have passed back in the film era, but not any longer. And even if you don't like the 3L, 4, 5 series..there was, unlike today's 3 line up entry models, significant differences in spec, even the 4 to the 5 had a fair few.

This 3 line entry Sony experiment has a lot more in common with compact cameras, than DSLR's. People forget time moved on, and Minolta just like all makers ended up putting more into cheaper bodies, as the tech matured. Sony are taking a very different line, aiming 3 models very close on spec, to a specific user type. Take a poll of film 5 folks who bought it, and it probably ranged from new users, to more experienced ones. And unlike the new newbie models from Sony..most 7 and semi pro film users would be happy to use a film 5 as a 2nd body, I wouldn't be seen dead with the new Alpha entry level. It will never grace a camera bag of mine, if Sony gave me one for free, I would ebay it

The major problem for Sony is, you pass on the A230, and spend more..and get simply a different sensor and or LV (and a worse OVF). Nothing else at all, you don't get a better spec camera. That's the point that is puzzling and odd. Pay more get nothing much more..Unless the A500 and 550 are priced so amazingly low as to shock everyone, Sony are going to have a real problem with their one hit market girlie entry Alphas.

If I were starting off now with nothing, I wouldn't even look at Alpha, I would with the last batch of entry models. It's going to be a costly mistake for Sony this time around.

[Greg Beetham]

Actually I'm sort of surprised that Sony didn't make them in a range of colour choices as well, with an anodized pink one available for example...kaf kaf...
probably would have if they'd had some pink lenses.

Now if Sony really wanted to get the jump on CON and do something innovative, they could figure out a way too upgrade the sensor in an existing camera..it being more like a simple service upgrade, drop the camera in and pay a reasonable fee (if you want it that is) and get the latest upgraded sensor for that model fitted in a day or so, nothing huge in the way of MP, just when or if a more advanced lower noise sensor comes along a year or two after you bought the camera, also comes with a service, a clean and a firmware upgrade.
When you stop and compare film cameras to these new fangled digital ones, with a film camera when you drop a roll of film in you get 24 (or 36) brand new dust free sensors and each one is it's own memory card, alas with no EXIF tho. With digital too actually get a new sensor you have to buy a whole new camera from the ground up.
That's why I can't really see the point in having a magnesium this and a titanium that in a DSLR when it all goes to waste in a couple of years anyway...just a high quality plastic body for me is fine, with at least the same features and interface that the KM5D, KM7D, A100 has/had, unless they can figure out a way of upgrading the sensor that is. (they can put video in as well if it can be done without affecting any of the pre-existing features, if not, put it in a co-existing model)
(would have an A200 if really pressed, and the A700 as well, although the A700 has a magnesium chassis and is twice the price, great features though)
Thing is, all these models above that have a great user interface for still photography are starting to show their age when compared to a similar Canon or Nikon model in sensor performance and implementation, and nothing on the horizon (except it looks as though the writing is on the wall for the A700)...but still no hint of a pending replacement...not even an 'accidental' leak..
Greg

[KevinBarrett]

I actually got the a700 for its level of control. I was still learning about photography and didn't want to risk getting a camera that I'd quickly outgrow. Looking back, it was a good call to receive the camera as a wedding present, to boot! But seriously, if you want to talk about durability of plastic bodies and obsolescence of older cameras, check out John De Bord and his deviantART account, populated with hundreds of fine images from a plastic-bodied Konika-Minolta 5D. That camera is still working for him in the Rocky Mountains today.