here we go again -

[PhotoTraveler]

I'm all for a USP if it gets me GPS support.

I am completely indifferent on Video, LV. I just want GPS. Something like DNG would be a bonus.

After spending a lot of time messing with the service parts page, and the service manuals for bodies I have. I'm come to realize Sony doesn't make things easy. Even identical parts get different part numbers based on application. So you can't link a part to multiple models. Grr. no fun.

Anyways, it's interesting that the sensor module for an A900 will cost you almost 2900 USD, the A700s is 840. So even removing their profit/cut/etc, you can get a wonderful idea of the price difference from APS to FF. I think they price those parts are the rough cost of the body so folks just buy a new body. Just like Apple when your laptop dies. The replacement cost of the mainboard is amazingly always just a bit more than what the current equivalent model cost.

[alphaomega]

I don't deal in hand guns (I live in "peaceful" Scotland like DK) so I would like to revert to the new Sony DSLRs. I posted this "flyer" on DPReview and so far a couple of contributors agree. this is, of course, pure speculation, but I think there could be something in it. I am sorry if my line of reasoning disappoints those hoping for a 16Mp FF A850 with a load of goodies such as lens adjustment, GPS and what have you.

[quote] liquid stereo wrote:

I think an A850 would be FF because its number would be too close to the A900 to not be.

Let's just do some "Blue Sky Thinking" on this. Sony go to Nikon and suggest they make a 16Mp FF sensor and they share it between a Nikon D4/later D800 and a Sony A850. Nikon thinks about it. They reason that Canon will upgrade their 1D to FF and upscale the sensor to around 12 Mp to retain or improve on 10 shots/second to be in front of the D3. Nikon thinks that the sports shooters do not need more than 12 Mp and decline as a bigger Sony FF sensor will also have inferior high ISO performance and slower shooting speed. Sony then decides there is not a market big enough to justify the investment and the A850 becomes a +- 16Mp APS-C sensor to also feature in a new Nikon D400.

This to me is the likely scenario and, therefore, I believe that the A850 will be APS-C but possibly around 16Mp to match the 50D.

I cannot see Nikon migrating to Sony on a FF sensor needing high ISO capability for the D3/700/1D market. I can see Nikon bringing in a D700X with the Sony 24 Mp sensor at some stage. Time will show who is right. [quote]

So basically I think the A850 will be APS-C although I also agree that if so Sony are not going to introduce a FF below the 24Mp A900. Without Nikon such a development would never pay. Sony would not be strong enough in this segment dominated by ardent prof NIK/CAN users.

[Mark K]

I have one alpha 807si, another dynax 800si. They do not look similar to their siblings, Dynax 7 and Dynax 9. Please do not give us plastic toys instead of solid performers. I really wish, if alpha 850 uses APS-C size CMOS, it is better than the rumoured D300s in every way

[Dulaney Ward]

Do I remember correctly that DK said in a post that there would be a Sony press conference this week? the 29th or 30th or 31st? Do we expect announcements for the three new cameras at that time?

Dulaney

[stevecim]

I think he said 29th and I remember he once said he only gets invites to high end camera press conferences , he never got an invite to the a230,330,380 press conference

[Mark K]

Nikon is going to announce in a few days.....

[marktuma]

One thing that surprises me is that Sony as a whole seem to be completely indifferent to building relationships with people like David or the owners of dyxum. There's never any sense of a personal touch and I think that's a shame and a missed opportunity.

I'm sure they have marketing teams and focus groups, but wouldn't it be good for them to add a little informal research with key people who have: a) deep knowledge of the mount and its history; and b) a finger on the pulse of a lot of current users.

[Dulaney Ward]

On another string on this site, Alphaomega Monday quoted DK as saying that there was to be a "Press conf. on 29th. We are invited. Richard will go."

Alphaomega assumes, as I do, that there will be significant announcements today at this press conference, and that we'll end the day with a much better sense of Sony's direction. There have been just too many serious hints of cameras in the wings.

Dulaney

[stevecim]

One thing that surprises me is that Sony as a whole seem to be completely indifferent to building relationships with people like David or the owners of dyxum. There's never any sense of a personal touch and I think that's a shame and a missed opportunity.

I'm sure they have marketing teams and focus groups, but wouldn't it be good for them to add a little informal research with key people who have: a) deep knowledge of the mount and its history; and b) a finger on the pulse of a lot of current users.

There is alot of things Sony don't seem to do with sales and marketing. today I was walking through the melbourne Myers store, the largest department store chain in Australia, , they have 48 PnS on display , only 3 sonys, 14 canons
the only Sony DSLR they had was the A200 single lens kit. When I was running my own IT business , Sony Australia would not allow me to sell their range of laptops I was to small a business. I only turned over $400,000.00 a year in hardware sales.

[Birma]

On another string on this site, Alphaomega Monday quoted DK as saying that there was to be a "Press conf. on 29th. We are invited. Richard will go."

Gaaahhh! After 2, and still no news. The tension is killing me. I will have to go and find something to do to stop me checking web sites. (Too wet outside for pictures )

[David Kilpatrick]

It is embargoed until Monday, Richard did not go in the end (it is quite expensive to do so - around £300 costs to our company to get someone there for the day). He didn't go because all the information has already been leaked - the D3000 and the D300s. The sensor revision in the D300s may perhaps have some bearing on an APS-C Alpha 850, if that turns out to be what the 850 is. Video and fast frame rates and very good high ISO. But we know, Nikon has done that before with Sony sensors, Sony has not generally been able to match like for like.

No D700X, no D4 - etc.

David

[Dulaney Ward]

Oh, it was a Nikon press conference. Thanks for the clarification, DK--I misunderstood and I think some others did.

When do you think we'll heaqr about the new Sony cameras?

Dulaney

[alphaomega]

Reference DK above on Nikon this site quotes a likely D300s specification:

http://nikonrumors.com/2009/05/28/nikon ... specs.aspx

Extract:

Nikon D300s
Type Single-lens reflex digital camera
Lens mount Nikon F mount (with AF coupling and AF contacts)
Effective picture angle Approx. 1.5 x conversion factor (Nikon DX format)

Effective pixels
Effective pixels 12.3 million

So this would appear to be basically the A700 sensor evolved to include video. Probably very close to the D90 sensor.
We can probably now expect a version of this sensor in the much awaited A850. It would appear that those expecting a lower Mp FF model will be disappointed and so will those expecting a higher res. APS-C to equal the Canon 50D. It will be interesting to observe what sensor will then be featured in the A500/550. Will it be the 10/14 Mp mix as in the A330/380?
If that turns out to be the case I must confess I will be a bit disappointed. So what about the twilight September foodball match? Are Sony now confident that they have a 12 Mp sensor that can perform well at higher ISOs?

[rush2112]

Many of us wanting 12-16MP FF won't be too disappointed if Sony delivers us an APS-C camera that gives us close to a two stop increase in noise performance over the a700. Depending on the feature set I may actually prefer an APS-C camera that delivers great high ISO performance to a low resolution FF release.

What you've presented would be a much better seller for Sony than a full frame 12-16mp camera as well. The question is, do they posess the technology first of all to accomplish that, and can they implement it without too much of a monetary sacrifice to themselves or the consumer?

I hope they can truly, and APS-C is the place to do it. If backlit technology lives up to its claims for handy cam, and is implemented into future exmor APS-C sensors, that will be a huge leap and advantage for Sony. I think many Alpha shooters who know about this possibility are really hoping that Sony will do it.

[alphaomega]

rush2112 wrote:

If backlit technology lives up to its claims for handy cam, and is implemented into future exmor APS-C sensors, that will be a huge leap and advantage for Sony. I think many Alpha shooters who know about this possibility are really hoping that Sony will do it.

I think that a backlit APS-C sensor is some way away. I remember writing that it is strange that Sony has not commercialised a new sensor and I thought that possibly that was because its existence was kept a secret between Nikon and Sony as the only two possible users. I now know why there has not been a commercialisation - simply there is not a new sensor to commercialise. Maybe the technology does not exist yet to produce a 16Mp APS-C sensor that can also generate quality high ISO pictures. I believe there have been questions raised about the the high ISO performance of the 50D. Maybe the answer in the short term is the 12 Mp CMOS sensor with its larger photo sites. Anyway it is all speculation until the new cameras are released although the D300s spce. looks realistic. I would have thought that a larger sensor would have warranted the designation D400.