Photoclubalpha

I don't have a clue because apparently here in my locality most of people go after Nikxx and Canxx.....and what if these cameras are making profit after all?

I think model line-ups are very much like good photographs. You can have a hundred bad ones and they just don't count for anything..but one good one really does stand out. I'd trim the range down to just one entry model and one upper entry one..and I would restore the removed features..CMOS sensors 12mp for lower entry 14mp for upper entry. Sony are just re-hashing the same tired stuff..don't really see the point if you don't make at least some effort to win customers.

Mark K wrote: I don't have a clue because apparently here in my locality most of people go after Nikxx and Canxx.....and what if these cameras are making profit after all?

Maybe it's because Sony does not know how to spec feature sets for anything above entry level.

Walt

Apart from Nex, the first position Sony has is no 23 by a330 according to here
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html
The second is A900

WaltKnapp wrote:Maybe it's because Sony does not know how to spec feature sets for anything above entry level.

It isn't rocket science. If Sony can't figure it out on their own then they could take a look at the Pentax K7 for an excellent primer. Also, look at Nikon and Canon. Sure, Sony can also put some of their electronic bells & whistles in just so that they can still say it is a Sony.

Those Sony entry model are neat looking and probably well made, it's the downgraded functionallity I don't like, plus the small battery and the Nikon style on/off switch. Some of the removed features should be left on them so beginners can discover their use (or be shown), at some point. If features and functions have been removed how will they learn, even if they wanted too?
Also those are the ones that should have some sort of video novelty however ordinary it is.
Maybe if they had a mask that lifted up when the mirror flips up (switching too video mode), that reduced the APS-C format down to 4/3'rds (or slightly smaller, who cares), and the AF and exposure sensors were in the edge of the mask (but still in the image circle), then they could have a reduced format video with AF and exposure control.
The people who buy these cameras most likely don't expect cine quality video, but the video quality should still be very good anyway. And as a bonus, slightly more DOF and telephoto effect.
Greg

It's amazing what features were left in those cameras, considering what was taken out, and what features an P&S stepper-upper is likely to use; stuff like custom white balance and fine-tuning of presets.

Kevin breaking news here but a lot of compacts have a custom WB setting (ala shoot the white card)! That's not exactly mind blowing stuff. They removed the Kelvin WB settings..which was a great way to learn about light temperature.
You have locked settings for scene modes..in auto you can't use exp compensation. My finepix has more custom functions than these do..and I can set my auto ISO level too..something that Sony are unable to offer.

Yet again dumb it down rules the day..these are poor learning cameras as they are so limited and basic. Put them up against a K-x and the Pentax blows it apart all over the place..

bfitzgerald wrote:Kevin breaking news here but a lot of compacts have a custom WB setting (ala shoot the white card)! That's not exactly mind blowing stuff. They removed the Kelvin WB settings..which was a great way to learn about light temperature.
You have locked settings for scene modes..in auto you can't use exp compensation. My finepix has more custom functions than these do..and I can set my auto ISO level too..something that Sony are unable to offer.

Yet again dumb it down rules the day..these are poor learning cameras as they are so limited and basic. Put them up against a K-x and the Pentax blows it apart all over the place..

And a lot of compact cameras have a dedicated AF assist light, too. Making the pop-up flash serve this duty in an Alpha camera spoils the immediacy of response for which a DSLR is built. How this feature makes it to so many Sony compacts and not to the a2xx-3xx series is beyond me.

Different companies have their own take on this. Look at Canon for example you don't even get an AF assist on the 5d MkII. Yet Nikon have them even on the lowest end bodies (albeit the less discreet white light variety)
Not really something that bothers me on lower end bodies. My comment was in general regarding these new entry Sony models..I just don't see why anyone would bother with them when there are clearly better offerings from most other makers. Very little effort here from Sony and that's disappointing to say the least.

I think they don't bother with the active type PDAF system on those cameras, it's probably expensive and the one contained in an F56 F58 etc. flash red beam is much more effective. When one of those is mounted on a camera (even a camera with the red beam window), the flash one is used to assist focus in very poor light, even if the flash is turned off. Those upgraders will just have to get a flash if they want accurate AF in very poor light.
Greg

ps. At least the Sony entry models still have the AF drive motor, unlike the Nikons, not that I care, but you have to give credit where credit is due.

Sure they have the motors..but it's a bit sad to talk about "what wasn't ripped out". Really I don't think it was possible to simplify these models any more bar maybe taking out wireless flash!
This was a great chance for Sony to address the weakness of their entry models..and all they did was change the grip and re-cycle the 14mp CCD from A380 bodies
Whilst I find the A450 model lacking for an upper entry camera in many ways (again too over simplified) it would have made a far better lower entry model than these offerings. I'd say even Nikon will have to start using a CMOS for their entry model soon..the old CCD is getting a bit dated. I sure hope Canon don't update the EOS 1000d, Sony will be in real trouble if they do.

Yeah I guess, it's just not an area I get bothered too much about, sortof don't care...I suppose I should care more...but haven't got the energy.
I took my A700 for a quick spin around the yard for the first time in what seems like ages, too see if I could find anything worth photographing...yep some non moving things, a couple flowers, even an orchid flowering in the middle of winter, and some moving things that were too quick for me, birds, butterflies (an electric blue Ulysses was one)... Now THAT is a camera Baz, it's a joy to use, something like an RR version of the KM5D...sortof, a camera like that I could get enthusiastic about.
Greg

I should have got an A700..but at the time I was not laying out for a camera with NR on raw! That killed it for me..by the time Sony fixed this problem (IMO they took far too long to do that) I no longer had the funds at hand for one. Shame really..
But still I'm not overly convinced that Sony is the right system for me at present. They've moved so far away from where Minolta were it's almost unrecognisable. (sub FF bodies that is)

Maybe the A7xx will blow people away..but the problem of a reasonably well featured mid level body (or lack of) remains.

Yep I totally agree with that, there seems no urgency to do things and fix things that would give their existing and potential customers confidence in the future of the system as a whole, and it's no use asking them because nobody in Sony knows what is going on either, apart from an isolated handful at the top in Japan, who seem to operate in a vacuum.
Macro shooters must be very low priority indeed, we are so far under the radar I think we no longer exist, and why can't they at least put out the equivalent of the Minolta i-shoe to ISO shoe adapter, that would be a handy accessory for many who need it. The lens linup is missing some important lenses, still no shift lenses and a few high quality more portable lenses in the f4 area.
Greg