Alpha 580 review is now up

[peterottaway]

Stevecim, just a point of clarification. Are you criticising those who are fed up with Barrys attitude here and elsewhere and say so, or are you including Barry in your criticism ?

[bakubo]

Barry is quite clear about what he likes and doesn't like about cameras, but I don't recall him ever getting personal or calling people names.

[braeside]

David, Seasons Greetings, I appreciate the excellent reviews, probably the most trusted on the net.

I was not sure what my current subscription status was, I think I cancelled the automatic PayPal subscription as I hate those automatic things that catch me out. I have been receiving the printed magazine OK though, so I guess I was still in credit. Had not used Yudu for ages, never seemed to have a moment to browse it, while the printed version is always fully read and studied.

Anyway, Today I have managed to subscribe for the Premium option (despite the blank text) via PayPal. Trust that I am now fully paid up!

Keep up the good work.

[Neonsquare]

@bakubo
Yes he is very clear on it - the only nuisance is, that he seems to be completely unable to express his opinion. Instead he always proclaims it as "facts". Critics are told to be just not critically enough with Sony (which is the gentleman variant of declaring someone a fanboy) or they are just no "real photographers". Last not least he demands getting things for free by arguing he himself would always do it for free too. Ever tried this with your doctor, car mechanic, or tailor?

I'm against calling people names or getting personal - but perhaps it not only "some dpreview fanatics"? There actually is a chance, that Barry may not be absolutely innocent in spreading utter bu11sh1t.

[bakubo]

@bakubo
Yes he is very clear on it - the only nuisance is, that he seems to be completely unable to express his opinion. Instead he always proclaims it as "facts". Critics are told to be just not critically enough with Sony (which is the gentleman variant of declaring someone a fanboy) or they are just no "real photographers". Last not least he demands getting things for free by arguing he himself would always do it for free too. Ever tried this with your doctor, car mechanic, or tailor?

I'm against calling people names or getting personal - but perhaps it not only "some dpreview fanatics"? There actually is a chance, that Barry may not be absolutely innocent in spreading utter bu11sh1t.

Sounds like you have made the case for ignoring Barry, not calling him names.

[alphaomega]

Yes, let's back to the A580 and it's capabilities. I noticed that sonyalpharumors.com referred to a brief comparison of Jpegs out of A580 and D7000 at Cameralabs here http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_ ... JPEG.shtml
Not sure how good these people are but altogether they seem to think that the A580 can hold its own although the Nikon seems slightly better above ISO1600.

Both cameras deliver very clean results at their lowest sensitivities, with only a hint of noise at 400 ISO. At 800 ISO, both cameras begin to exhibit more noticeable noise artefacts with minor speckling and a little softness, but it's really nothing to worry about at this point.

There's a bigger drop in quality at 1600 ISO though, with a noticeable increase in speckles and softening, not to mention a slight loss in saturation. Despite differences in image processing though, both models remain pretty much neck-in-neck.

The story's much the same at 3200 ISO, with similar degrees of real-life detail versus noise artefacts. The Sony A580 appears to suffer from worse noise at this point, but that's only because the lighter image delivered by the D7000 at the same exposure manages to hide some of the speckling.

At 6400 ISO, we'd give the D7000's image processing the edge at retrieving the maximum detail, but to be honest both cameras are looking ropey at this point, and you'd only want to use this sensitivity for emergencies.

Interestingly the only point where the pricier D7000 takes an obvious lead is at the A580's maximum sensitivity of 12800 ISO. Neither look great, but the D7000's image is definitely preferred. Sony sensibly bows out at this point, leaving Nikon to bravely offer a 25600 ISO option. At this point the noise has become very obtrusive, but it may get you out of a tight spot.

So despite a minor advantage to the Nikon at the very highest sensitivities, we'd rank the Sony A580 and Nikon D7000 pretty much neck-in-neck here. Tweaking their default settings or working with RAW files allow you to closely match their output, and the choice between their in-camera JPEGs is entirely personal. So a good result here for the A580 considering its lower price.

While this is the end of the story for the D7000 and most conventional DSLRs though, Sony has an additional trick up its sleeve. The A580, like other recent Sony cameras, can actually fire-off six frames in quick succession and automatically combine them in-camera in an attempt to lower noise levels. This was firsat seen in the company's Handheld Twilight mode, with the only disadvantage being the automatic selection of exposure and ISO. Now the A580 offers an additional Multi-frame Noise Reduction option, which allows the camera to perform the same compositing trick, but at the sensitivity and exposure mode of your choice.

RAW comparison to follow. No mention of other factors such as AF, metering and other features, where the Nikon will probably score higher as it is specified to a higher price level than the A580. The Sony 16Mp sensor is doing well as DPReview also gave the Pentax K5 a Gold Award including a positive review of the sensor.

[bfitzgerald]

That's just a comparison of jpegs at NR "default" which is fine as it goes but you should be able to turn the Nikon down for jpeg NR. The Sony has a lower NR setting but it does not appear to be that much lower than the default. I'm also not entirely convinced with camera labs and their consistency either but that's a side issue.

I think the case for a user set NR setting for jpegs on Alpha DSLR's is a strong one. High, medium, low and off. All you need really then everyone is happy. I'd agree with the newer models Sony's jpegs are "better" than previous ones but that's not a hard thing to do as they were not very good on older ones.

[stevecim]

Stevecim, just a point of clarification. Are you criticising those who are fed up with Barrys attitude here and elsewhere and say so, or are you including Barry in your criticism ?

Just don't want to see these forums end up like dpreview, I just don't like any posts that personally attack someone or try to bait someone into a fight (sorry about the delay Peter been away from the computer )

[David Kilpatrick]

I don't have an issue with Barry's responses but sadly they have lost me some forum members, including one a couple of days ago who preferred to ask me to delete their entire account and all posts, than stick around.

David

[alphaomega]

David Kilpatrick wrote

I don't have an issue with Barry's responses but sadly they have lost me some forum members, including one a couple of days ago who preferred to ask me to delete their entire account and all posts, than stick around.

I don't have an issue with Barry Fitzgerald's criticism of Sony per se. In fact I agree with many of his points, although I must admit to a bit of fatigue when I see MLU and lack of P shift repeated again and again. I object to him apparently not being able to see anything good in Sony's varied camera line-up. As an owner of DSC-R1, A700, A350, A550, A580 and now also NEX-5 I have some experience in using Sony's cameras and I cannot agree that they are all bad. They may lack some functions, but even C Garrard at Alphamountworld has come round to the idea that Sony have produced a good and competitive camera - The A580

Sony's A580 is the most fun to use DSLR that Sony has produced to date. I've used every Sony DSLR they have manufactured, owned most of them, but this one has yet to leave my side. While Sony's other DSLRS can be more competent to use for some other tasks the A580 is a camera that is hard to set down. There's a lot of fun features in there that I wanted to use constantly, and some tools that just flat out rock.

He has to suggest improvements (why not?), but concluding

In the end the A580 is a camera I will definitely recommend to Alpha shooters (granted with some reservations) who are fully aware of its capabilities and limitations based on their own current needs. This is the most fun I've had using any Sony DSLR to date (all considered) and is a redeeming model compared to the camera it replaces. Pick one up and try out the features sometime.

Not that I pay much attention to what he says, but having the A580 myself I can only agree with his conclusions. So Sony do some good things and other things that could be improved upon. they still lack the A700 successor and a replacement for current FF models. Having acquired the A580 and also NEX-5 I feel no urge to delve into my pocket for probably £1,000.00 for a successor to the A700. I have no intention of departing from Photoclubalpha as I very much appreciate the hints and advice from David and other knowledgeable contributors on this Web site. I also note that quite a few DPReview users have a look at what is available here. I wish you all the best in the new year and happy shooting with your Sony equipment.

[bfitzgerald]

With forums you have to take the rough with the smooth but it's in no way personal nor should it ever be. I never had any problems with the previous well known poster who was very vocal on this forum...no problems at all with his views. It's not what is said it's how it's said and folks deserve some degree of respect. This was a problem when a lively debate turned sour and mud gets thrown around.

The same situation occurred in the DPR forums even when I didn't actually make that many threads fans complained about views that didn't agree with their own or when they started topics which almost always ended up with personal insults.

I didn't do an A580 review and I don't interfere with what Carl says on his ones either it's all down to the individual and how they see things, we agree on some things and disagree on others. I don't think I would give the A580 a bad review not at all, but I would probably be more vocal on some annoyances that would be especially irritating to me for my type of shooting (ISO in VF for one) and some other stuff too.

On a more positive note I see the photo stuff has moved to the top of the forums page so that's some encouragement for all of us to get more involved in that and less on this type of stuff.

[bakubo]

I don't have an issue with Barry's responses but sadly they have lost me some forum members, including one a couple of days ago who preferred to ask me to delete their entire account and all posts, than stick around.

Which forum members have departed?

[David Kilpatrick]

In the case of the last one, asked not to say. It's someone who feels that he has been stalked and negative comments made about his posts. I didn't even check to read the said posts, I was asked to delete the user and did so. Others have not been so 'terminal' and have just told me they're off to pastures new and will pop back in some time in future, but find some of the posts negative or provoking argument rather than discussion.

I don't make a note of such things, it's a forum, and that happens. Similarly some regulars have returned after a break, some say so.

David

[stevecim]

Thanks for the review DK, If I did not already have a A550 I would buy a A580 the moment in landed in Australia. has yet there is no indication that Sony will even release the A580 here
My only complaint of the A550 is lack of ISO100, apart from ISO100, I find the A550 improves on the A350 in every way ( for someone that mainly takes holiday snaps )

Sony do have a habit of stuffing some things up, but the current line up, Nex 3/5 A33/55/560/580 are cameras that suite the markets they where made for and I do not hesitate in recommending any of these for friends and family. What a lot of people are waiting to see is what will Sony release to replace the A700?

[alphaomega]

I was trying the video function on my A580 over the weekend and impressed with the image quality but the sound (outside recording) was more wind than what I wanted to record. Looking throuogh David's excellent review of the A580 I could not find any comments on the sound and how to fit an external microphone. Any suggestions from a current user on what model to purchase. I guess that one fitting on to the flash shoe (with a short lead) would be ideal. Has to be suitable for outdoor recording. Thanks in advance.