Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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bfitzgerald wrote:If I were you Walt I'd make a move I don't see OVF models on the horizon from Sony. Hope I'm wrong but it's looking fairly likely. Sony are in a desperate hurry to abandon OVF's that alone was enough to make a move very easy indeed.
While I agree the chances of Sony actually getting back to truly supporting a700 level pentaprism OVF DSLRs is near zero, I don't feel I need to make the change yet. It's a very large system I have that was put together specifically to survive without support for some time and a very complex task to economically accumulate such a large system in a different mount. Using Minolta was a lesson in how to survive being cut off and abandoned several times over.
Combine that with I'm happy with my present system and the results I get currently and I'll wait until my a700s quit to get the most out of the money I've spent. Then decide on the basis of what's there then. If it's only EVF/SLT I will be going to a different mount. And if the Foveon came in and is debugged I've already set the groundwork with my wife that I might get one, just not first in line. Even if I move, it would be to yet to be produced generations of cameras in other mounts, nothing current.
That also gives some time to see if that tiny chance of Sony with the Foveon OVF DSLR takes place. (realize if it does take place it almost certainly would evolve in both APS and FF) The a700s and my high end lenses are built well, so it could be many years before I have to take the economic bath.
Combine that with I'm happy with my present system and the results I get currently and I'll wait until my a700s quit to get the most out of the money I've spent.
Just been going through some of my A700 pictures from 2008 and developing some unused RAWs in LR3 new process. Nothing wrong with the A700 and what it can output. Any number of new cameras will not belittle this lump of metal.
And if the Foveon came in and is debugged I've already set the groundwork with my wife that I might get one, just not first in line.
If it materialises and is based on the one rumoured for Sigma's next generation DSLR it's 15 or 16Mp per layer or at least 45Mp total. Shooting RAW to get max DR it will be min. 65/70Mb and in TIF 24bits only 120 to 130Mb. Forget about converting to 16bits first. Big capacity fast cards, fast PC and 64bits software. Stacks of 1 or 2 Tb external HDDs.
As the Amateur Photographer said about the current Sigma DSLR it is a very good 4Mp DSLR. It will still probably only equal Sony's A900 for definition. I wonder if when it comes out HDR or a variety thereof will have developed to provide the same DR at less storage and processing requirements. Can't see such a sensor going into anything but for special purposes and reserved for people with deep pockets. Just an opinion.
Neonsquare wrote:@Walt
Would Sony FF be an option for you, if they come with OVF?
Really comes far down the list for me. APS suits my photography better. ie when I get to the point of having to jump it will of course be an option if it still exists in it's present form.
But I do not expect Sony FF to be any different than Sony 7 level APS, ie it will be SLT real soon now. It cannot continue as it is due to the claimed requirement that all cameras have LV and Video. So say goodbye to the viewfinder of the a900, killed by LV and Video.
And if Sony does have LV and Video with the FF while still having the a900's pentaprism OVF viewfinder, then there is no reason left for not doing the same design in the a700 level.
RubberDials wrote:If Sony posted a picture of a banana on their website and called it a grapefruit would you believe it? Apart from the lack of visual acuity to discern a production camera from a model you seem to be unaware how marketing - or even language works.
Your rage should be directed at Sony. Hope you don't bust a gasket...or maybe that happened a long time ago.
Your original argument was that this couldn't be the finished A77 design and a production chassis because Sony had called it a concept model.
As my recent post showed Sony were happy to call finished production designs (and probably fully working lenses) 'concept models' at PMA '09 so your argument cannot stand - yet you're insulting me? You must have no shame.
RubberDials wrote:Your original argument was that this couldn't be the finished A77 design and a production chassis because Sony had called it a concept model.
Show me where I did that. Doc asked me to translate, but there was nothing much of interest to translate except the part about the model/mockup which came up. You really should contact Sony in Japan to register your displeasure with their words.
RubberDials wrote:
As my recent post showed Sony were happy to call finished production designs (and probably fully working lenses) 'concept models' at PMA '09 so your argument cannot stand - yet you're insulting me? You must have no shame.
Anyone who wants to can easily go back in this thread and see what you have done.
You are really obsessed with this and just won't let it die. You keep reviving it days after it has died.
Last edited by bakubo on Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
alphaomega wrote:If it materialises and is based on the one rumoured for Sigma's next generation DSLR it's 15 or 16Mp per layer or at least 45Mp total. Shooting RAW to get max DR it will be min. 65/70Mb and in TIF 24bits only 120 to 130Mb. Forget about converting to 16bits first. Big capacity fast cards, fast PC and 64bits software. Stacks of 1 or 2 Tb external HDDs.
As the Amateur Photographer said about the current Sigma DSLR it is a very good 4Mp DSLR. It will still probably only equal Sony's A900 for definition. I wonder if when it comes out HDR or a variety thereof will have developed to provide the same DR at less storage and processing requirements. Can't see such a sensor going into anything but for special purposes and reserved for people with deep pockets. Just an opinion.
I'm assuming if Sony gets into this they will come up with their own design so it's probably not much point of discussing details of the Sigma design.
The rumor did say the net would be equivalent to 25MP. In any case the internal disk capacity of my 8 core Mac Pro is 4 TB, Plus another 4 TB external. Not that I want to see continual increases in file size, but my photography files are nothing compared to sound files from nature recording.
Shooting RAW? Even less need with Foveon.
If the only way to get a proper pentaprism OVF DSLR in A mount is Foveon, so be it. The price I have to pay. Bound to be cheaper than buying a entire large system like I have in Nikon.
alphaomega wrote:
...snip... If it materialises and is based on the one rumoured for Sigma's next generation DSLR it's 15 or 16Mp per layer or at least 45Mp total. Shooting RAW to get max DR it will be min. 65/70Mb and in TIF 24bits only 120 to 130Mb. Forget about converting to 16bits first. Big capacity fast cards, fast PC and 64bits software. Stacks of 1 or 2 Tb external HDDs.
As the Amateur Photographer said about the current Sigma DSLR it is a very good 4Mp DSLR. It will still probably only equal Sony's A900 for definition. I wonder if when it comes out HDR or a variety thereof will have developed to provide the same DR at less storage and processing requirements. Can't see such a sensor going into anything but for special purposes and reserved for people with deep pockets. Just an opinion.
The "it takes too much computer" argument doesn't stand. I remember when a 20 MEGA (not giga) byte hard drive was $800. I also remember the 'joy' I had when I was able to buy a 345MEGA byte HD for a 'measly' $315. My local Micro Center now has 2 TERA byte drives for $80. We had to order a new computer yesterday at work - 4 cores, Win7 Pro and 1 TB HD, 6GB RAM, $450. I remember when 486 chips alone cost that much.
Computers, like many electronics, have a shelf life. They may be usable far longer than that for limited purposes, but have to be replaced to keep up with the times. I hate it, and have to do things such as convert my old XP machine to a Linux box to keep it usable, but I know if I want new hardware features and the cores, memory and HD capacity to run new (often bloated) software, I have to buck up every 3-5 years for a new system.
Thanks Walt and Dusty for your considered answers to my points about Foveon sensors and their Mp "greed". There is a saturation point in everything. I have Vista on my Internet PCs but my other two used for images manage fine on XP. I have upgraded one to SP3 to accept new software. Need Xp for my Minolta 5400 II scanner and other devices. Would not use more than 1TB HDD whether internal or external (Think of problems with failure). A580 with 16Mp if fine for me. Will buy a NEX with 16Mp if made available (this is vanity as I don't need it). I have reached saturation point in some areas. My current car is so good Volvo V70 so why change? I could go on. The Foveon - if it is a Foveon it will have three layers like the Sigma or it is not a Foveon. Who needs a 16Mp per layer other than a few considering the colossal files. You can store them on your 4Gb HDD but still who needs file sizes like that? Even David Kilpatrick is more fond of his A55 compared with the A900. The A55 will do most jobs well. I am the same. The A580 will do the job. so will my A550 and A700 (and A350 at up to 800 ISO) and I also have a NEX-5. In fact I have bought cameras I don't need because what I had was good enough for my purposes. So the name of the game now is taking more good pictures with the gear that now exceeds expectations. So lack of MLU (set higher ISO). No P shift - A priority is better and easier etc. All they can do now is stuff more tech. into new products that just add further confusion. This is a real problem for producers, but fortunately there seem to be enough hankereing for the next new product as if that will improve on their photography. Need a better EVF - Just wait a bit and it will be there. Start saving. Maybe I am over the top now, so I will stop.
RubberDials wrote:Your original argument was that this couldn't be the finished A77 design and a production chassis because Sony had called it a concept model.
Show me where I did that. Doc asked me to translate, but there was nothing much of interest to translate except the part about the model/mockup which came up. You really should contact Sony in Japan to register your displeasure with their words.
Anyone who wants to can easily go back in this thread and see what you have done.
You are really obsessed with this and just won't let it die. You keep reviving it days after it has died.
I post when I visit the forum.
You disputed my post not Sony Japan, so why should I write to them?
You quoted their marketing literature with the words 'mock-up' bolded. You also did this with DPreview. The implication is obvious, that you disagreed with my statement that the clear camera is a final design produced from production dies. In any case I asked you to clarify your position so you can't complain about any conclusions drawn.
I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with it, but I'm certainly irritated by posters who are quick to rubbish my arguments without addressing my criticism of their own. If you disagree with me then you must believe that the finished camera will not use this moulding and chassis. Can you explain why Sony would go to such elaborate lengths to model a camera that wasn't even a finished design with fully realised internal components such as pcbs, ribbon cables and switches that project perfectly through related openings in the moulding. Please answer.
Please, please, please can Henry not answer, as this is going no where. Henry quoted from the Sony details. You have explained that the clear chassis is more then a "mock-up". We are all agreed. Let's all wait for the blessed thing to be released and enjoy it.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
Javelin wrote:It's going to be blessed? wow the religious angle, Canikon does't have THAT!!
I learned at a recent photography séance that professional cameras and lenses, camera bags, tripods, and monopods are not allowed inside the Pearly Gates.
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