All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

OneGuyKs wrote:Keep in mind that all professional camcorders ever made use EVF, and Olympics you watch on your TV is shot with EVF camcorders. Poor DSLR could not use EVF like professional camcorders due to PDAF that only works with mirror. Now Sony has solved that problem. OVF is for amateurs. .
AF is not the problem, realtime display in the viewfinder is the problem. Realtime display is not near so necessary, if at all, for video. For stills it's critical for composition in stills of moving objects.

Walt
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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

alphaomega wrote:
Also where did the information come from that the A700 was a poor seller? I have never seen any supporting information, links or references to support that claim, it’s most likely just another pro EVF supporter justification, like the claim that Sony HAD to go SLT or sink out of sight.
This is just a bit taken out of Greg Beetham's post above. I made the claim based on my recollections of what was written and postulated around the place at the time.
My recollection is that at the same time Sony was saying at several points the sales of the a700 were exceeding their expectations. People like Mark Weir and others in Sony management were saying that. That counts for a lot more than what some people in a forum might say. Sony never said it would replace all Canon and Nikon sales, in fact they said the opposite.

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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

bfitzgerald wrote: Only the more recent A560/580 models go some way to bringing the range back to competitive levels
And those have been available for only a few months, with very little supply in the stores even in that time. Bottom line is that Sony, even with the a700 and a900 made almost no effort to sell their DSLRs or to compete. It was not Canon and Nikon beating them with DSLRs, it was Sony beating themselves with DSLRs. A clear half hearted effort.

Leaving DSLRs is more an admission that Sony cannot compete period. Not at the high end particularly. They will still have to compete with the rapidly growing OVF DSLR market on the DSLR grounds. It expanded 30% in increased sales last year alone. That or they can just lapse back into Consumer cams, which is what they appear to be doing.

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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

alphaomega wrote:I did'nt see this until after I had posted above
Sony may control about 15 percent of the global market for single-lens-reflex cameras by the end of March, Masashi Imamura, president of the Personal Imaging & Sound Business Group, said in an interview in Tokyo yesterday. The maker of alpha-series cameras and NEX models had an average market share of about 10 percent in the previous four years it has been in the segment.
found on http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-2 ... odels.html (through sonyalpharumors). So Sony may be at 15% by March and they want more. As I said I think they will make major inroads and it would appear they have Nikon in their sights. I am sure they will also want to take Canon down a peg as less Nikons sold means fewer Sony sensor dispatched in that particular direction. Canon shows no signs of urgency towards SLT/NEX type products. Perhaps they are a bit like Microsoft before they discovered the importance of the Internet. Who knows what is going on in the Canon camp.
Actually it's interchangable lens cameras they have those statistics. Not in DSLR where they are rapidly losing ground while DSLR is a rapidly expanding market.

Walt
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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

bfitzgerald wrote:I have a solution you could simply make a post and get your point across..or you could (as you did with my 6mp v 10mp CCD thread) simply rant about something entirely pointless and complain about not getting your point across :mrgreen:

The choice is yours!
Even though I get plenty of lumps I express my opinion and try to explain why because I consider it important to represent my opinion. If I can survive that firestorm no one here has anything to complain about. Either take your chances or don't complain without saying anything on subject.

Walt
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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

David Kilpatrick wrote:I think we only have to look back at the KM A2 to understand where the development direction can go. While the AF speed was not stunning, for CDAF it was not bad; same goes for the EVF, it had a choice of 30 or 60 fps. And that was a basic design from 2001, updated in 2003 - eight years ago.

It was abandoned, in effect, because DSLRs arrived and took over that market - including the price-tag, which reflected its features at the time.

Another forgotten bit of camera history can be found in early 35mm SLRs such as the Retina Reflex and Contaflex. These used a rear lens group incorporating a shutter, effectively sealing the mirror box behind a glass barrier. There are good reasons to revive this concept, with or without a shutter, for APS-C digital. First of all, the dust sealing aspect; secondly, with clever design such a rear optical unit can perform floating group corrections never built in to those 1960s cameras - and it can also, possibly, include a universal optical stabilisation group providing a type of in-body SS but not sensor based. Under electronic control of two or more elements in a rear group, other functions such as macro focusing or soft focus could be provided with different front units.

The use of a common rear optical unit restricts the range of 'converter' front units that can be used, but not in the same way as with those old SLRs. It would be quite practical to have any degree of wide angle, and any type of superzoom including 18-270mm or similar. The rear group would standardise the telecentricity and sensor shading.

This approach is the only historic lens design which has not been revived, and it's only a matter of time before it is rediscovered - whether for APS-C DSLRs or not. It would marry perfectly with EVF live view and CDAF.

David
You did not include that every current Minolta and Sony A mount lens would be needing replacement to even work with such a system. I'd not be the only one facing complete replacement of their system.

And with manditory replacement of the mount system comes full freedom to move elsewhere. Which is why mounts don't get changed often. It's like the prison turning all the inmates loose and free. Not many manufacturers want to try that.

Walt
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WaltKnapp
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by WaltKnapp »

bfitzgerald wrote:I've no problems with hybrid viewfinders if it can be done if being the big question.
Definitely time to watch Nikon, they may actually do it if their patent is any indication.

I have no problems with a design like that if it's still photography oriented.

Walt
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Greg Beetham
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

I think it's truly amazing that Sony has 15% of the DSLR market considering their haphazard marketing/distribution etc. and their disregard for the US market itself, the mind boggles at what they could do if they decided to get more presence happening at the coalface. I personally think in the US market they need to be able to show some linkage to Minolta, (even today) so that the vast majority can identify with the Sony DSLR's, SLT's; I think many people still don't know that Sony cameras have the Minolta lens mount.
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by bakubo »

tom power 53 wrote:The entire argument will be mute soon enough though when PDAF is good enough and there will be no cameras with any type of mirror box assembly and thus no OVF's except for a few very expensive specialized applications. Of course the global shutter will probably be replacing the mechanical shutter by then also and cameras will be quite differently constructed and certainly not be called SLRs anymore.
It may be moot at some point, but on the forums nothing is ever mute. :D
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by bakubo »

David Kilpatrick wrote:Another forgotten bit of camera history can be found in early 35mm SLRs such as the Retina Reflex and Contaflex. These used a rear lens group incorporating a shutter, effectively sealing the mirror box behind a glass barrier.
Not forgotten by me, although all of your cool ideas I didn't know about. When I was in high school and saving money to buy my first SLR I got to know a woman in her 60s who lived nearby. Her husband had passed away some years before. While in the Army in the early 1950s he had been stationed in Germany and bought a Contaflex. She brought it out one day in a brown leather everready case along with a selenium cell handheld meter. She didn't know where the instruction manual was, but she insisted I take it home and use it for awhile. I found a photo of the Contaflex here:

Image

Later she wanted me to keep it, but I just couldn't accept it. It did not have a rapid return mirror so after a photo the vf remained blacked out until you cocked the shutter again by turning the knob. I don't recall if winding the film and cocking the shutter were done at the same time or separately. As you say, the shutter was in the lens.
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by Lonnie Utah »

Greg Beetham wrote:I personally think in the US market they need to be able to show some linkage to Minolta, (even today) so that the vast majority can identify with the Sony DSLR's, SLT's; I think many people still don't know that Sony cameras have the Minolta lens mount.
For legacy users, yes. For new users, no. I don't think new folks coming to Sony care about the past link to minolta.
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by tom power 53 »

Lonnie Utah wrote:
Greg Beetham wrote:I personally think in the US market they need to be able to show some linkage to Minolta, (even today) so that the vast majority can identify with the Sony DSLR's, SLT's; I think many people still don't know that Sony cameras have the Minolta lens mount.
For legacy users, yes. For new users, no. I don't think new folks coming to Sony care about the past link to minolta.
Agree I think most new Sony users really don't care much about the Minolta connection until they start buying lenses and then are happy to find out that they can get some older Minolta lenses on Ebay. Vast majority of new DSLR buyers only buy one or two lenses and then end up with the camera parked in a drawer till it is well past it's technology era. To these folks Minolta option a non issue.

Same with snow skiis - fancy bicycles etc. the thought is there but a real hobby takes up too much time for many people who just don't have the time or energy.
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by alphaomega »

Was in Leith (Edinburgh) today to take some pictures and met a chap with an A55. Asked him how he found the EVF response time. He kind of looked puzzled and indicated that there was not a problem as far as he was concerned. He also liked the light enhancement when it was dark compared with OVF. Just a single person, but Walt is also such a single person. I am sure that people like Walt Knapp do have a real problem with that issue and will only purchase OVF but for 99% I think that EVF display delay is a non issue. May be more of a problem with a higher end camera.
I am sorry that this thread deteriorated into the usual pro/con Sony with the same arguments trotted out. As I said before we should just wait and see what Sony have up their sleeve and each individual can then act as required. I had my A550 with me and it is really so good (for my kind of picture taking) that I wonder why I purchased the A580. Vanity I suspect. I really don't need 16Mp. I won't need 24Mp either, but I am sure I will buy another NEX if it comes out with 16Mp and maybe even an inbuilt EVF. So even I may succumb to the EVF "plague".
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

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Lonnie Utah wrote:
Greg Beetham wrote:I personally think in the US market they need to be able to show some linkage to Minolta, (even today) so that the vast majority can identify with the Sony DSLR's, SLT's; I think many people still don't know that Sony cameras have the Minolta lens mount.
For legacy users, yes. For new users, no. I don't think new folks coming to Sony care about the past link to minolta.
The reason why showing a linkage to the Minolta legacy is more to offset the camera store/ big box store salesmen comments that only pros use Nikon or Canon. Around where I live (and travel) I have heard that line so often I feel I should remove my hat and salute. Along with that is the follow up that Sony has no real photography experience and their only experience is with cybershots. When I'm around, I usually earn myself a stink face from the salesmen by launching into the great history that Sony picked up from Minolta and how Minolta made world famous exposure meters and color meters and incorporated that into their ( and Sony by association) cameras.

Now for some Sony being a consumer electronics company rather than a company with photo background that could be a plus, but typically its not. Camera fans who follow dpreview or other sites, may know about alpha. But for most newbies and mid level users (Sony's primary sales target for the past few years) man of them will buy the Rebel xyz so they can fantiasize about being on the 50 yard line with their big white lens.

tom
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Re: All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

Unread post by Scooterman »

Now for some Sony being a consumer electronics company rather than a company with photo background that could be a plus, but typically its not. Camera fans who follow dpreview or other sites, may know about alpha. But for most newbie’s and mid level users (Sony's primary sales target for the past few years) man of them will buy the Rebel xyz so they can fantasize about being on the 50 yard line with their big white lens.
And where I go I see lots of those, they were SOLD them by the shops where they bought them, “Sir you want one of these” followed up by
“most people use this brand” the poor person who is buying said bit of kit has no idea what he or she is buying and it is sold usually by a shop assistant who has no experience either.
This is why eBay is littered with cameras that, are not being used, find it to complicated etc etc,

Richard
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