Sony SLT-A77 DPR review

[bfitzgerald]

Very strange nobody has posted this for discussion..so here you go:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta77/

[alphaomega]

I think this very much sums up DPReview's review "We're pretty confident though that whatever your level of expectations and expertise, the A77's rugged and well thought-out ergonomics, innovative full-time live view and AF systems and exceptionally good EVF will keep you very happy indeed. However, the somewhat mushy JPEG image quality, high noise levels and slightly laggy operation stop the A77 from getting a gold award."
I must confess I would like to study a review of an A77 with the latest version of firmware. Looks to me like a repeat of the A700 v. 1 versus v.4 issue. Not sure how a company like Sony could issue a camera with an obsolete firmware version when the current one was available or at least known about.
In any event I prefer DK's musings and updates as improvements are made available.
I must confess that I am not a potential A77 user. I have firmly made up my mind to purchase the NEX-7 when it has been available for 6-9 months and all snags eliminated. Furthermore I would like to see a reduction in price. What I have at the moment is adequate for my purposes. No need to rush into purchases at launch prices.

[bfitzgerald]

Well I'm not overly shocked about the jpegs I can't say I was impressed with what I had seen from the A77. As for the noise well again the level of chroma noise at high ISO v the older (better no doubt) 16mp CMOS is surprising to say the least.
It wasn't all bad many positive points I can't help but wonder when I said Sony had to make sure there were "no blunders" that they've done some damage to the potential sales by not working on those 2 obvious problems.

[bfitzgerald]

Over 175 views yet only one comment? Strange are folks happy with the DPR review was it fair?

[Greg Beetham]

Barry I for one have to say despite the good points of the A77 it is still a power consuming double action shutter SLT, and Sony managed too add a few more detractions as well, the mushy JPEG’s, the noise and the delay reaction interface.
When Sony fixes those last issues it might become a camera I’d consider…maybe; Sony can’t fix my objections though, that it’s a power consuming SLT that wears the shutter out twice as fast, as apparently that’s all Sony makes now.
As for the dpr review, I’m afraid I read the intro and the specs and then switched to the pros and cons, I haven’t had time to read the whole thing…if it was a review about a DSLR like the A700 then I would study it in fine detail…I’d make the time to do it.
Greg

[David Kilpatrick]

It does not wear the shutter out twice as fast! The action on the SLT in standard mode on the A77 is: electronic first blind (no wear) followed by second curtain (physical); then, second curtain returns to open position. One blind, two traverses.

If you enable the physical front curtain - before the exposure, this closes; for the exposure, both curtains run; then only the second curtain opens. Two directions of travel per exposure, per curtain.

In the A900 - two curtains travel to make the exposure, the two curtains travel back to be ready for the next shot. Two traverses for each curtain.

So - exactly and precisely the same amount of wear on the SLT as on a conventional shutter.

Even in a live view camera with no SLT function, there are still only two travels per curtain required for each shot, just the same as on any DSLR.

The only type of live view which uses two actual open-close actions per shot is the quick focus function of Canons and Nikons, where the cycle is: to initiate LV - mirror lifts, first curtain opens; to shoot, second curtain closes, mirror falls, AF is executed, mirror rises again, first curtain opens, second curtain follows, both curtain return to start position as mirror falls again. The 14 fps mode in the Canon 1D X uses the same shutter open close pattern as the A77 with the mirror locked up and no viewfinder.

So, this stuff about the A77 shutter getting twice the wear is simply untrue, it gets exactly the same wear as any SLR shutter if mechanical first curtain is enabled - and either less, or the same, with electronic first curtain. No doubt a two-way travel for one curtain gives it much the same life as a two-way travel for both.

David

[Greg Beetham]

The description I was given originally about the SLT shutter was that it does double duty, it is open to begin with (a standard DSLR shutter is closed), the SLT shutter has to close first, then take the shot (open and close) then open again, and that is the description I have been using, and David it might even have been your good self that gave it.
If the way it actually operates is how you just described then you’re right the total amount of travel is the same except the SLT shutter isn’t ready to shoot when you press the shutter button, it still has to finish the cocking cycle from the previous shot before it can actually take the current shot. I guess the new electronic first curtain does make the SLT more attractive, but I’m not sure of the speed and response times etc. as compared to a standard shutter, wasn’t there a read problem to be overcome to get maximum shutter speed?
In any case they could put the electronic first curtain feature in a standard OVF DSLR with mirror up MF LV design if they wanted to, too me that is a real photographer orientated camera. Then you have the non power consuming lag free OVF for action stuff, and the camera on a fluid head using the rear screen MF LV with peaking if you really want to do video....I’d be using it for macro instead.
Greg

Ps. I have a big old Manfrotto fluid head, bought it many years ago because of hazy notion about doing movie clips, it’s as smooth as silk in pan and tilt but I have never used it for video so far, I guess it might become useful…one day.

[Birma]

Over 175 views yet only one comment? Strange are folks happy with the DPR review was it fair?

For me the DPR "Final Review" has lost a lot of relevance. The Pre-review is interesting; it comes out on launch day, has lots of pictures, and the specs in detail - great stuff. By the time the "Final" is out there has already been much discussion/debate and further detailed reviews which leaves a certain amount of "so what" for the DPR final view. I would hazard a guess that many people (especially here) have become pretty jaded about DPR's 'judgement' score etc. Like Greg, I checked out the pro's and con's list and moved on. There is now so much review information for new equipment that DPR is just becoming one voice amongst many by the time of the Final. I read a far more interesting review on this site some time before DPR came out with their 'Final' scores .

[Dr. Harout]

+1

[Magnar Fjortoft]

I have played with the A77 for a some days now and compared it with my A900 (sold, but will not be sendt away until tomorrow). After using a full day for testing low ISO performance I am impressed with the image quality, which is close to the A900. I find this exceptional for an aps-c camera! I also made some quick ISO 1600 and ISO 3200 tests, and there is not that much difference between the two cameras. So image quality is sufficient for my photographic work (high quality books, large prints and some news reportages).

The images were evaluated as fully processed files (who are using non-processed or poorly processed files?) and from large format prints made with an Epson 9880. Pixel peeping is not an important part of my photography, so overall quality and appearance is what my quality test is about.

What I find really interesting is the set of features this camera is offering, like fast & reliable autofocus with center group AF points, high frame rates, a really nice and smooth EVF with excellent tools for focusing (peaking and loupe view), etc. This makes the A77 much more useful for me than the A900.

I think the Dpreview review is pretty well balanced, except for their high ISO approach. Concluding high ISO performance from default raw converter settings and/or standard in-camera jpeg settings seems a bit odd to me. On the other hand, I find Dpreview more a kind of summing up figures than real life reviewing. In this respect I find David K. much more informative -- and exciting.

[Steve4D]

The various tests that you posted on DPR were very interesting - Thank You.

I am interested in going the other way - and do/see some low(er) 100-200 ISO available light candid portrait and flora comparisons, between the a900 and a77 using the 85CZ and 2470CZ........that is, when I can find some spare time.........

Still have my a900 and now have the a77, which I have decided to keep after two weeks of basic tests and general playing around.

I did a comparison shoot at a race track last Friday between the a77 and a900 with the 70-300G - a mainly overcast day, but still using 100ISO as I was wanting to pan @~1/250th. Generally, I found that the a77 outperformed the a900, however AF was a bit more hit/miss on the a77 than I had expected, but most likely related to the fact that I need to become more tuned in to the a77 AF system.

I am (very) reluctant to let my a900 go, as it has constantly pleased me in those areas that I mention above and has offered superior IQ to the a700 - which I also still have.......but which is the more likely to be moved on.

I am doing an indoor concert this Friday evening, and I will take the a700, a900 and a77 along with the 2470CZ and SAL70200 - to shoot different 'stars' than those that you excel at! .

I will only test the a77 @1600-3200 RAWs, rather than trust it at this time. These outcomes will then guide me further on what course I should take with my alpha bodies.

[edrice]

These outcomes will then guide me further on what course I should take with my alpha bodies.

I shall hang upon your every syllable.

Ed

[bfitzgerald]

Just something I noticed or rather didn't on the DPR review I can't see a mention of quick nav unless I missed it?
What's the story on that one? Minor point but still puzzling

[redsim74]

Just something I noticed or rather didn't on the DPR review I can't see a mention of quick nav unless I missed it?
What's the story on that one? Minor point but still puzzling

Quick nav is gone, unfortunately.

[twm47099]

Just something I noticed or rather didn't on the DPR review I can't see a mention of quick nav unless I missed it?
What's the story on that one? Minor point but still puzzling

Quick nav is gone, unfortunately.

Isn't something like it accessed by pressing the Fn button? From what I read in the unbelievably lousy manual it appears to work like QuickNAV. But that may have been wishful thinking combine with the difficulty with the manual.

I guess one thing would be if all of the Fn settings are on one screen or if you have to scroll through more than one.

I'd appreciate it if someone with both the A77 and A700 could explain the similarities and differences with Quick NAV vs Fn.

thanks
tom