after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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classiccameras
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by classiccameras »

If they removed the in body focus motor on next generation bodies, I would jump ship and dump Sony. Why, because most of my system is KM lenses.

In the end, I can see me using a Canon as their HQ and UK labs are 1 mile from where I live. Now that is useful if you need a quick fix while you wait with no shipping costs.
I'm reluctant to move to M4thirds as I am not convinced 'yet' they are as good as a APS-C camera.

Quite a few people on this site seem to have strong views [and why not] on various makes of camera and I suspect that some times brand loyalty can mask reality. I have a A37, great camera [in my opinion] and I have no illusions about its weaknesses and limitations, however, I concede there are equal and possibly better cameras from other makers at around the same price.
There's non so blind as those who don't want to see. I experienced this first hand on the 4thirds forum.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I think the 4/3 thing is a predictable part of a sensor size which is ok but has no upgrade path to full frame. Might work for micro 4/3 for the travel light brigade and why not..but it's not a DSLR replacement for the stuff I do. You get a sort of angst on those forums that you don't get with APS-C users v FF. Because we're on A mount where most of the lenses are full frame anyway you have a choice here. Happy enough with APS-C myself but having a choice isn't a bad thing either.

Canon, well I was using a 5dMkII the other day and I quite like it nice solid build, decent VF (though not as big as my film 7's still good) takes me a while to get used to the handling but overall a very good camera. Get's a bit heavy if you grip it, shove a 24-105mm IS and flash on there IQ was good and it's a well liked model for wedding/portrait work very popular camera in this segment. Ok it's knocking on a bit now but Canon are blowing it out for sub D600 prices £1200 odd. Why Sony couldn't do an A850 for that I'll never know would have made a good affordable FF option for A mount users.

I don't think they've ever really grasped the sell older models cheaper tactic that the top 2 use. I think that hurts them quite a bit really. A580 was stopped they could have run that model too.
alphaomega
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by alphaomega »

I also think that it is difficult to predict or understand Sony's camera and lens development plans. If SAR is to be believed they are very much in a flux just now. The SAR chap is "sticking his head out for a potential chop" here with a SAR SR5 rumour http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-full ... megapixel/
so any talk of a successor to the A99 or any other DSLR/SLT FF camera is probably a waste of time.
(SR5) Full Frame mirrorless from Sony coming in almost exactly one year! 24 or 30-32 Megapixel!
It’s Christmas time and what bad administrator would I be if I wouldn’t give you an SR5 rumor

1) These last two weeks I contacted all my best sources and they now all(!) confirmed that the next Sony Full Frame camera will not be a new SLT camera. It will be a Full Frame mirrorless camera!
2) Plan of a FF SLT release in 2013 have been dropped to fully focus the development resources on that FF mirrorless camera. Sony’s main priority is to create a real High End camera. A camera that can have all the functions and capabilities of a DSLR (that means for example fast AF). Sony sees that camera as the one that should bring back some significant interests on Sony FF system.
3) The camera is still in the final stage of development. We can expect the release of the cameras by end 2013 at earliest but early 2014 sounds more likely for now.
4) The camera has some key tech not seen on any Sony camera yet. I am still working on this rumor to get some detailed info. So stay tuned!
5) The camera is a bit bigger than the current Sony NEX-7 and not that much different in terms of the design.
6) The camera has a native E-mount and both E-mount and A-mount lenses will be fully supported.
7) One of the trusted sources said that Sony is right now testing two different prototypes. One features a 24 megapixel and the other camera features a new 30-32 Megapixel sensor.
I actually thought that there was a problem covering the full E-mount sensor size with an E-mount lens. I wonder what magic Sony will employ to get round this minor issue. Will the E-mount also be able to cover the full sensor size with an FF lens fitted on a converter such as LA-EA2? With the enthusiasm for the RX1 I can see why Sony are pursuing this road now. If you can't beat them at their own game start a new one and remain the in the lead. One thing is for sure, they will need to develop new E-mount lenses for a FF NEX as the current ones don't have a large enough orifice. That can only mean that the current ALpha lens gaps won't get filled.
agorabasta
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by agorabasta »

alphaomega wrote:I actually thought that there was a problem covering the full E-mount sensor size with an E-mount lens.
There would be less of a problem than to do so with an A-mount lens with adapter, as the reg distance is shorter. And the adapted Leicas have no problem with that either.
The problem is that you can't have IBIS with adapted A-mount if it goes through E-mount throat, so they could try some wide universal mount for both A and E mount adapters; or simply make some interchangeable front mount plates for both A&E with integrated tripod mount thread.

Doable, but may turn out clumsy...
Wes Gibbon
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Wes Gibbon »

bfitzgerald wrote: Personally I don't really mind what makers call models consumer or not makes little difference to me or most buyers.
You get a different level of support, at least in the UK. Perhaps their professional support team is so busy cleaning D800 sensors that they just couldn't take on doing the same for the D600.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Looks like another ill fated attempt to work themselves into a niche market.
E mount is entirely uninteresting for some photographers, a NEX type body is not going to be a working tool for photographers.
What a waste of resources, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the market in general.

Small body ILC cameras are fine, but are not the tools of choice for many photographers for obvious reasons. They are too small body wise, they have weak handling, and mounting a flashgun makes them unbalanced.

I'd rather buy into the Fuji ILC system than look at that
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Dusty
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Dusty »

It seems that the SAR admin thinks Sony is going all mirrorless. If that's the case then they'll be big abandonment of Alpha mount among users.

I'm not going into SLT territory, so I'm debating the switch now vs. s/h 580/850/900 and staying around a few more years.

With the death of SLRs, the hot-shoe change and now no further A mount bodies, I don't see any possibility of of using A mount in 10 years.

Dusty
An a700, an a550 and couple of a580s, plus even more lenses (Zeiss included!).
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I hope you are wrong Dusty, but this is what I mean about no consistency and constant worry among A mount users.
I really wished my mount change had worked out it would put an end to this continued concern with Sony's direction or lack of.

The reality is quite simple with SLR type systems and ILC ones. They meet the needs of quite different users, ILC's are not a one stop solution that will appeal to many SLR folks. Maybe I'll just tick along with what I have right now, pick up a few s/h A mount bodies next year and ponder if I should do what just about everyone else does...just buy a Canon and quit worrying about what happens next.

Sony seem to hit a cross road and almost always take the wrong path. SLT is tricky enough to get used to, but the prospect of A mount dying is not a good one.
Sometimes I wonder why they bothered to buy it off Minolta
classiccameras
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by classiccameras »

If the future of Sony cameras is NEX type bodies only, no thanks.
NEX tech in an A mount DSLR type body, may be.

The same Alpha rumour site some time ago predicted that all Sony cameras will eventually be using mirrorless NEX technology, surely that must be an advantage over SLT tech.

Panasonic, Olympus and Samsung already have mirrorless tech and they are proving to be quite popular. However, with the exception of the Samsung and its APS-C sensor, I don't think the other two have quite reached APS-C picture quality just yet, although the OM-D is knocking on the door.
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bakubo
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bakubo »

I can imagine that Sony is trying to come up with a new mirrorless body that more or less seamlessly can use either E-mount or A-mount lenses, have PDAF and CDAF, etc. Olympus has also made comments some time back about doing something similar. There are rumors of a higher level m4/3 body with on-chip PDAF that can use m4/3 lenses and 4/3 lenses. It isn't something I care much about (I don't have any 4/3 lenses anyway), but some people who own some of the excellent and expensive 4/3 lenses are hoping it happens. Olympus seems to have stopped working on further 4/3 DSLRs so they are ready for a new body to use their lenses on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony ultimately wants to get to a single range of bodies that can use both E-mount and A-mount. It would be shame to lose the Sony IBIS though.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

One reason I would never look at Olympus is their dumping of 4/3 DSLR users in a bad way. It's move like that which can have a significant impact on a company. I said years ago 4/3 was the wrong format for DSLR type cameras and that has proved correct.

Anyway I do not see a NEX type product as even remotely meeting the needs of SLR users if Sony did follow that path they will lose a majority of their users to other mounts quite quickly and it would prove a disaster for the brand. I am sure that the mirror will go and I expect A mount to continue. However until I see movement from the top 2 players regarding EVF type SLR cameras the jury is very much out on this. Let's put it like this I do not see it happening nor any evidence that having "old school" OVF type cameras is in any way a hindrance to the top 2. I think Sony's issues are one of consistency, product range not really meeting the needs of users as well as they should, lens range again isn't as good as it should be, and prices also an issue in some regions.

Until Sony accept they are the bargain brand and price accordingly they won't get near to Canikon. Simply buy your market share with lower prices simple strategy really.
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bakubo
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bakubo »

bfitzgerald wrote:One reason I would never look at Olympus is their dumping of 4/3 DSLR users in a bad way.
I am not up on all the ins and outs of every camera company, but I hadn't heard that Olympus announced that they were dumping 4/3 DSLR users. Do you have a link for that? I think the E-5 DSLR came out in 2010 and it is now 2012 and it is still for sale new at lots of places so it doesn't seem to be discontinued. You may recall that the A700 came out in 2007, was discontinued, and then much later the A77 finally came out in 2011.
bfitzgerald wrote: It's move like that which can have a significant impact on a company. I said years ago 4/3 was the wrong format for DSLR type cameras and that has proved correct.
I was never interested in 4/3 either since the sensor was so much smaller and yet the cameras and bodies weren't. I didn't see much point. I think m4/3 makes much more sense though since they finally got the bodies and lenses much smaller to correspond to the smaller sensor. Also, finally got quite a good sensor for the E-M5 and the other smaller Olympus bodies from this year.
bfitzgerald wrote: Anyway I do not see a NEX type product as even remotely meeting the needs of SLR users if Sony did follow that path they will lose a majority of their users to other mounts quite quickly and it would prove a disaster for the brand. I am sure that the mirror will go and I expect A mount to continue. However until I see movement from the top 2 players regarding EVF type SLR cameras the jury is very much out on this. Let's put it like this I do not see it happening nor any evidence that having "old school" OVF type cameras is in any way a hindrance to the top 2. I think Sony's issues are one of consistency, product range not really meeting the needs of users as well as they should, lens range again isn't as good as it should be, and prices also an issue in some regions.
An E-mount NEX camera doesn't have to be the size and shape of a NEX 7 or 5N. Sony could make a larger, chunkier body that might even look sort of like a DSLR with the E-mount close to the sensor and then an adapter for A-mount lenses. With careful design it could work well for both and have on-sensor PDAF plus CDAF. I posted many months ago about this sort of thing. A body such as this would probably be more attractive to A-mount users and a smaller NEX would be more attractive to E-mount users, but both a large and a small body could work with both types of lenses. Losing IBIS though would be sad. Of course, I doubt if there is any reason why Sony couldn't have IBIS in a larger body.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Quick history lesson Olympus OM users will give quite a rant even to this day on "being dumped" by Olympus
The E-5 was out of date even before the boxes hit the shelves..little more than a token offering for 4/3 users. Olympus effectively dropped their DSLR line and I doubt they will do another one, more to the point they have no range at all nothing at the entry point. 4/3 DSLR is as good as dead in the market

Whilst I agree micro 4/3 might be the way forward for this sensor, it's when we start to look at who buys these cameras. People who want a small body/travel etc etc.
I cannot see how even a bigger body E mount camera using A mount lenses as a tack on option would be very appealing. Too big for travel light people, might be too small for dedicated users. I said a number of years back that this type of camera is not a one fits all solution, and I retain that view today.

The notion that "all cameras must be small" is a very flawed one and you can be quite certain that if A mount is dropped in favour of E mount Sony will be about as popular as John Hinckley, Jr. turning up at a Ronald Reagan appreciation society meeting :shock:
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bakubo
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bakubo »

bfitzgerald wrote:The notion that "all cameras must be small" is a very flawed one and you can be quite certain that if A mount is dropped in favour of E mount Sony will be about as popular as John Hinckley, Jr. turning up at a Ronald Reagan appreciation society meeting :shock:
That is what is called a Straw Man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Who is promoting the notion that "all cameras must be small"? I have yet in all my years of photography, reading photo magazines, reading stuff on the internet, and talking with people I never even once read or heard that.

Barry, after all the years you have written so many bad things about Sony and all the bad things you have written about SLTs and all the bad things you have written about EVFs it is truly ironic that you have bought a new Sony A57 SLT with an EVF. :lol: I bet in a year or two you will have switched to an m4/3. :lol:
alphaomega
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by alphaomega »

Barry Fitzgerald said
The notion that "all cameras must be small" is a very flawed one
SAR said
5) The camera is a bit bigger than the current Sony NEX-7 and not that much different in terms of the design
I was recently at a presentation by Colin Prior and he was bemoaning the weight of equipment he had to carry to the top of mountains to take his famous vistas. The global market is large and I can imagine a sufficient number of professionals interested in a weight and bulk loss if they can get the same variety and quality of images as they require. So the Sony future FF NEX may be bigger than the NEX-7 and yet small enough to entice a sufficient number of buyers to make it viable. Note the intention to provide fast AF and the hint of new technologies. I think the name of the game is to wait until the product is launched and tested. I don't think that Sony can just buy a market share. The other players may just follow and at some point they will have to return to profitability or go out of business. Canon could match Sony for as long as required. Sony are not all that cash rich.
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