Photoclubalpha

Greg I'd think they would have to "pay" staff to attend that event, but as they've laid off so many recently (including DK's pal) maybe they have a numbers problem.
I know some makers would "event company it out" for the PR bit or girls with logos glued to various body parts, but they're not answering questions they are just there to look nice

Has to be said Sony's PR has been iffy, the PS4 launch event was hilarious..note to Sony new product launch "it helps to actually have the product there to show"
Me, I miss the old Sony days when we has wooden mock ups and showing some fine carpentry skills it has to be said

Yep for sure the staff that go would probably have a nice earner on top but in Sony’s case if I worked for them I’d be very cautious about putting my hand up to go and answer everyone’s questions at a shindig like that and do it without actually letting some small cat out of ze bag accidentally at some point, I bet some have in the past at various events and suffered the consequences.
Yes the good ol days of the mockups, Sony doesn’t seem to have any nowadays, maybe they got mocked too much. No mockup of the 500/4G for example, I guess they could show an actual one now, but it’s not the same thing is it? It’s not as easy to mock a real one or as much fun.
Maybe they could have shown a mockup of the new Zeiss 50mm (if they went to the show), I don’t think it’s out yet in the flesh, that would have been cool.
Greg

Heidfirst wrote:that's not really Kodak though - they have licenced their brand name to a 3rd party.

As I said, it is the "new" Kodak. If you know of another Kodak then let me know.

bfitzgerald wrote:To me it's quite obvious if a company like Ilford can turn up (niche product maker for the rather smaller film market plus papers) and other makers like Tamrac and Lowepro who are bag makers, then a company the size of Sony can def afford to buy a stand and send a few "knowledgeable" staff members to man it. Heck even Samyang have a stand and they're far from a huge lens maker.

Not really any sensible excuses from Sony on this one major UK photo event and Sony are nowhere to be seen.

Heck, even Minox is going to be there!

Dusty

Heidfirst wrote:but you could have got a refund & bought another A57 albeit not from that dealer.
[snip....]

I think that is an excellent explanation and conclusion. It's what I would have done. Oldfashioned retail businesses suck, the customer never wins. However I am afraid Barry is not looking for any solutions, blaming an international business like Sony is much easier than asking a retailer to do his job.

Funny, and slightly unrelated; I popped into the Sony store up here in Seattle, and they're sending their employees to run around with Sony cameras at the Emerald City Comic Con this weekend. Their Alpha counter sales person had an A700 hanging from her shoulder, with a shiny (read "well-used") Sony 50/1.4 attached. She was complaining about having to wear her Sony shirt and insisting that she be able to take an RX1 at the same time. At least Sony is going to have some kind of convention presence this weekend.

Winkler Prins wrote:

Heidfirst wrote:but you could have got a refund & bought another A57 albeit not from that dealer.
[snip....]

I think that is an excellent explanation and conclusion. It's what I would have done. Oldfashioned retail businesses suck, the customer never wins. However I am afraid Barry is not looking for any solutions, blaming an international business like Sony is much easier than asking a retailer to do his job.

I'm sorry but that is not a fair comment in any way. Any buyer has the option of returning a product to the retailer or sending it off for warranty repair. I'm not taking the heat for a 5 week delay on this, that's Sony's problem and I actually have found it interesting and quite revealing in how poor Sony's after sales service is.

Again the ball is in their court. They could have had sufficient parts to repair it at hand (seems sensible to me), or they could have replaced the camera. As a buyer I have done nothing at all bar follow the instructions I was given. Sony could easily have replaced the camera by now, they have not. I can't see how anyone bar some die hard Sony fan/nut could come to any conclusion other than Sony's support sucks. It's easy to blame me but it's their product, they are obliged under law to fix the problems, the delays are their own fault as I followed instructions to the letter.

An international business that was worth anything would have dealt with this in a far more customer focussed way. If that hurts Sony fans sorry but that is the reality of the situation. Had I had this sorted out weeks ago I would have happily shared that information.

Back to the show it simply "shows" how out of touch the company is and it's something that apparently is infecting their service department in the UK too (ie don't give a damn about the customer) It's easy to blame me for not taking it back to the retailer, when the obvious smacks you in the face Sony's service/support is poor very poor and it's something some people don't want to hear so put your ear plugs back in and tell yourself how great Sony are, you put yourself in my situation and see how impressed you are.

bfitzgerald wrote:I'm sorry but that is not a fair comment in any way.

Maybe I shouldn't step into the middle of this , but I agree with Barry here. Sony made the camera and it is under the Sony warranty so it is not fair at all to blame this on Barry for expecting Sony to take care of a problem with their camera under their warranty.

Atgets_Apprentice wrote:I'm no expert in marketing, but isn't part of that talking , and listening, to your customers, and potential customers, to find out what they think of your products, what the want to see in future products, and acting on those opinions?
.

That's not what happens in these shows. The people who are hired don't even know that much about cameras. It's a show, not a "customer input poll." If Sony has decided that this show is a waste of time, good for them. They get to make the decision how they want to spend their money on advertisement -- not you and not Barry.

If the show is a complete waste of time then I wonder why 2 of the biggest camera makers on the planet are there? Or many smaller makers who clearly feel it's worth their time setting up at the show.
Yes sometimes these shows are more a "grab and talk" affair but it at least gives people the chance to "in the flesh" try the cameras and ask some questions. That is worth far more than it might seem, people might look at Sony products and possibly want to buy one!

Sony's advertising campaign is ok (but really not that great printed or on TV) events like this are important for makers to attend. I'm sure the cost of going there isn't that much, and yet the company spends money on stupid campaigns like "DSLR gear no idea" Money better spent going to real trade shows IMO, meeting people and getting feedback.

Sony are out of the loop on this, they are detached from customers and buyers, it's time to engage people on the ground (who buy the products) now more than ever

OneGuyKs wrote:

Atgets_Apprentice wrote:I'm no expert in marketing, but isn't part of that talking , and listening, to your customers, and potential customers, to find out what they think of your products, what the want to see in future products, and acting on those opinions?
.

That's not what happens in these shows. The people who are hired don't even know that much about cameras. It's a show, not a "customer input poll." If Sony has decided that this show is a waste of time, good for them. They get to make the decision how they want to spend their money on advertisement -- not you and not Barry.

Boy, I'm not sure what you do in the U.K. for trade shows, but they are very important on this side of the pond for the reasons stated by Agets above. If you don't get real feedback from customers, you have no idea why your line is or isn't selling. Usually, it's the dealers that give that to you, and if you don't listen to them, How are you going to know how consumers perceive your product vs the competitor?

It's hard to do consumer based competitive research because the guys who bought your brand usually didn't buy the other guys, so they liked something of yours better: price, availability, features. Dealers, OTOH, see the guy choosing x over y and z because of a, b, and c. That's why trade shows are so important.

Disclaimer: I work for a marketing and research company.

Dusty

OneGuyKs wrote:

Atgets_Apprentice wrote:I'm no expert in marketing, but isn't part of that talking , and listening, to your customers, and potential customers, to find out what they think of your products, what the want to see in future products, and acting on those opinions?
.

That's not what happens in these shows. The people who are hired don't even know that much about cameras. It's a show, not a "customer input poll." If Sony has decided that this show is a waste of time, good for them. They get to make the decision how they want to spend their money on advertisement -- not you and not Barry.

I'm not referring to just trade shows. Sony isn't listening, FULL STOP.

It is all very well being an innovator, but if people don't want your innovation, and you don't listen to them, and your competitors produce an alternative, then they will go to your competitors. The grass may not actually be greener on the other side of the fence, but those that want to see it through an OVF will still prefer to photograph it that way.

I spoke to the Sony guy at FOI today. He stated that their marketing budget had been cut for the last 2 years and they are now concentrating on in-store 'Sony day' type events. As far as I am aware, they have attended other shows in different countries. N.b. I think it was 2 years ago when Canon were not present at FOI.

I had an A99 in my hands for the first time. I was quite impressed by the EVF - much faster response than the A55 I tried 2 years ago, or even the A77 I tried at the Sony Centre last year.

What is in store "Sony day" events? Seems a bit vague really.
I'm sure the budget has been cut, but it can't be that expensive to attend a show like this.

Not when you splash TV ads around now they are probably expensive

Barry - the regional sales rep turns up with a carload of the new gear and joins the store specialist if they have one, to meet customers and maybe have some free coffee and sometimes a model or a studio, chance to borrow lenses and so on. Wilkinsons Cameras have done them, Sony ACE centres when those existed once did them.

I also believe that Gustav Kibert (the kingfisher man) was flown over from Holland for the Wilkinson one which was well publicised and more of a big open day with talks and stuff, and of course, special one-day discount deals to persuade more people to come.

These events often have very good deals on selected stock.

David