Future of A mount

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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the_hefay
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by the_hefay »

I remember back when I bought my a100. I told my friend and long time Nikon film shooter that eventually all cameras would mirrorless. He replied that I was out of my mind. But it is the trend and so I won't even consider a system based around a camera with a mirror. Ironically it was Sony that had the biggest influence in this movement.

Barry, you're absolutely correct in asking, "Question is where you go then?" I don't really know. Personally, I want an aps-c sensor. That helps me narrow down the decision. I have a little m4/3 camera and it's fine for what it is, but I don't want that system as my daily system. I'm looking pretty hard at Fuji, especially the x-s10. But I haven't the money to buy any system just yet and so I'm sure there will be various other offerings from Fuji or other companies when I get ready to buy. I only know that I'm done with Sony as a system. When the a77ii dies this time, that's it. I'm not looking at lenses new or used for a-mount. I'm not looking at e-mount. I have less invested than others. I only have 3 lenses and and one hot shoe flash. That in itself will make it less expensive and perhaps easier for me to switch systems than someone that has a bag full of active lenses and bodies.
ValeryD wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:31 pm For Sony, this is a common practice: release something good, stop producing and start producing other products. From the very birth of this company. Examples include cassette tapes, cassettes, Sony trinitron TVs, mini CDs, DVDs, and the list goes on and on. :)
Betamax for life!!! :lol: :lol:
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Sony are pretty good at getting into things then bailing out, makes you wonder how reliable the company is long term.
I'm sure with their super investment in E mount they will be around for a while - it is also pretty clear they make far more money off other areas of their business and imaging is a very small area.

I think it was obvious to all the camera makers they could save a lot of money on production costs with mirrorless. Just look at the small bodies, minimal parts compared to the complicated SLR style cameras, no question at all manufacture costs are much much lower. Yet here we are in 2021 and moving forward, and the so called entry level prices are near to what mid level was 10 years ago. The consumer gained no savings only higher prices on bodies and lenses!

Overall I have a pretty heavy investment in A mount, but I fortunately was prudent with purchases, mostly used equipment, never bought a new Sony lens, just a couple of bodies, and I stopped at the A77 buying new bodies. Sony made not much off me on A Mount, and I prefer it that way ;-D
Disappointing the new adapter is mostly a waste of time and not a serious gift to A mount users, merely a sales tactic. Who knows I make wake up one day and something crazy might happen offloading gear, but the time and cost alone is off putting, to gain? Well this stuff can get the job done simple as that

The Fuji XS-10 that does look interesting, IBIS at a reasonable price. Two things bother me slightly, the weedy battery (nothing new there A6xxx has that most of them), also there is no electronic first curtain just pure mechanical or electronic. If the readout speed is good in electronic might not be a problem, but a double action on the shutter maybe shutter shock? I mostly always use EFCS on the SLT's and not had a problem. Just something to consider, otherwise it's quite a nice body from what I can see
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bakubo
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bakubo »

Probably the best thing to do for those of you who use A-mount is buy up a few extra bodies (don't forget batteries) so that you are covered for many years. Probably easier and cheaper than finding and switching to a new system which almost surely would also have downsides after you got familiar with it.

I recall a guy on another forum back around 2008 or 2009 bought 4 A700 bodies so he would be set for the rest of his life. He thought it was ideal for his photography and worked well with his set of lenses, flashes, etc.
classiccameras
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by classiccameras »

There is an old saying, buy in haste, repent at leisure, I've been there
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bakubo
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bakubo »

You and Barry have been talking about this for probably a decade or even longer. :lol: I think the last thing you are in danger of is acting in haste. :lol:
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

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With used gear I just had a dig around on MBP Europe and nabbed a 50mm F1.4 Sony boxed for 104 euro plus postage, I can turn a profit on that selling it myself ;-D Might do a 50mm F1.7 v F1.4 video the 50mm 1.7 was popular
Only thing is they don't do Minolta used, which is mostly what I have - however there are some not bad at all deals there on A mount bodies and lenses (and plenty of other brands), prices are much lower than eBay and 6 month warranty. I wouldn't use it to sell (no doubt you won't get good prices ok for those who want to offload stuff in bulk (never a good idea). They have bodies too now and then I saw an A99 for just over 600 euro. Higher end stuff like some of the Zeiss/G lenses are now in reach for many buyers. I expect a solid used market for A mount going forward lot of stuff out there and it's good enough for serious work.

Some of the eBay prices are completely unrealistic on used camera gear, people selling old stuff for not that cheap cost. I imagine most don't sell. It was useful for the 80-200mm and some others I nabbed some really nice deals 28mm F2.8 for 70 euro, I got my 24-105mm for not much just over £100 years ago, 30mm SAM Macro, 100mm Macro. Total cost wise I saved a fortune v buying new
I didn't need that it's just a well at that price I can sell it myself lol
Buying new in 2021 is just plain dumb IMO regardless of what you are using
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by classiccameras »

Yes, I learnt my lesson many years ago. I noticed that Barry has dipped his toes on occasions into the Fuji cameras. so I guess he has a slight interest, as I do. Its a system I have always been tempted to go with, I like their concept, In many ways the Fuji cameras ( the ones I can afford ) such as a second hand XT20 would tick many boxes ( no camera is perfect ) for my type of photography, picture quality, especially Jpegs, landscape and general use. Some very tempting lenses too. and a nice retro style which is smaller than your average DSLR but larger and less cramped than the Olympus OMD EM cameras, plus of course APS-C vs Micro 4/3. I'm beginning to think I have too many cameras of different brands, something must go.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

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I would like to try some more recent Fuji's I admit the XS-10 did catch my eye as it has the IS in body and isn't a bad price (cheap enough on grey market too). The early ones were not IMO great, the XE-1 was nice enough output, but the EVF was completely unusable in low light (frame rate was absurd like flipping cards must have been single digit refresh!). XT2 I played with much improved, grip on these style cams isn't the best rather small.
But they are coming out with more interesting stuff.
Lenses are mixed, they have some nice primes at fast speeds (perhaps a bit pricey IMO for crop), but there are good ones no doubt about it. The zooms more hit and miss, the 100-400mm is very good not cheap but quality is there no question. The 50-140mm F2.8 cannot be compared to the Minolta 80-200mm F2.8 it just crushes the Fuji optically in every way (sadly) also the Fuji has pretty poor distracting rendering. It's just not up the legendary MInolta (IMO the Minolta is also great for APS-C). That's a really important lens for the system

55-200mm I used and it was good but £600 at 200mm the 100-200mm Minolta is actually a bit better optically (I paid 29 euro for mine!) 16-80mm is poor wouldn't touch that the old Sony Zeiss meh build aside is vastly better. 10-24mm is good, though the WR new one pricey for F4 So I would say it's more a system for primes IMO. I don't care much for Xtrans myself in raw (using various software), but I have always liked their jpegs and their simulations are also nice. I'd consider it if they changed a few lenses, updated some and dropped the Xtrans eventually.

Fuji are interesting, but even with those examples you can see how much of a bargain A mount is
I do see a lot of Nikon Z stuff around used, more than I would expect. I tried the Z6 before and it was fine but no wow for me (nice enough just nothing special), they did update it quite a bit perhaps that made it faster.
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by classiccameras »

Good incite to your experiences on the Fuji, As far as I know there are no 3rd party lenses available, which is a pity, The Tamron 17-50 F.2.8 is probably the best standard zoom for A mount and for the price, there are a few used on the second hand market, be careful many have been abused by videographers The Sony 16-105 gets fairly good reviews and is very useful as a walk around lens, quite old, it first appeared 2013
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Fuji have a few of the cheapo makers (ie manual focus stuff) for third party. I tried a few they're not bad 7artisans etc - fine for the asking price
The lack of third party stuff hurts them big time IMO. Not everyone wants to splash the 16-55mm F2.8 asking price. Ditto for Sony E, I'm sure the new 16-55mm F2.8 is great but both of these lenses leave little change from £1000 new. Way way too much IMO for APS-C lenses no matter how good they are.

Tamron have their new 17-70mm F2.8 and looks decent enough, that's about £780 though! Where did the affordable lenses go? I paid just over £200 for a grey market Tamron 17-50mm used it extensively and it's working great and earned it's cost many many times over. These affordable Tamron's and Sigma's don't exist anymore. That's the other problem with MILC, unless you adapt lenses you're going to be paying high prices. I think Samyang are the new affordable lens maker they do some AF lenses and reasonable prices. Other than that it's wow how much? To build a basic system new these days its many thousands, in contrast I probably spent a few grand but built up an entire multi body system for that with extensive lenses and flashes (I didn't pay for the Godox gear it was review samples). Today I'd get one MILC body and one lens, OK maybe I have too many lenses still most of them were quite good value. Bang per buck on A Mount was and still is through the roof
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I hate to link to this because the article is just pure trash IMO, and the so called journalist behind it has no real idea of what he is on about..
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/uk/n ... n-obituary
Don't get me wrong I was never a fan of the SLT concept, it was surely a transitional step with the light sucking mirror. What surprises me is someone who is supposed to be experienced hasn't got a clue about A mount, or why it was appealing and still is to some.
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bakubo
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bakubo »

bfitzgerald wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:58 am Buying new in 2021 is just plain dumb IMO regardless of what you are using
In January 2020 I bought a used Panasonic GX7II (GX85/GX80) at a shop in Tokyo. Very nice camera. I wrote a user review and have continued to update the thread as I find new things:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63703723
classiccameras
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by classiccameras »

Firstly, I have never fully understood why Sony went down the SLT road, they had some pretty good traditional DSLR's with OVF etc.
SLT never received good press, with a couple of exceptions when reviewers compared them to other brands in the same price range.

I bought a used Panasonic GX7 some 2 years ago and can't really fault it. I fitted a Panasonic 12-32 on it, but never got round to increasing the kit, may be the 35-100, used of course. Its interesting to note that lens for lens price for price Panny budget lenses out perform Olympus lenses, most by a narrow margin but some by quite a lot. Also the build quality on Panasonic lenses is excellent.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Yes for some reason Sony went from mostly trashed/hated in the reviews, to the darling of the camera industry. Quite why I am not very sure.
On the forums they are suggesting DPR and many review sites were "anti A mount", I'm not sure I would go that far - but some were near to that. I think DPR credit themselves with the "boom of mirror-less" in fact I would say DPR were anti DSLR more than anything else in the last 4-5 years.
I don't take much notice of the site, this isn't a news article or moment it never was. Any half clued in person could see most of the A mount stuff was out of stock 12 months ago, with many lenses on special order or not available. DPR news is more in common with Petapixel and Fstoppers than real news (not a good thing I avoid both)

SLT was an experiment, perhaps they thought it was cutting edge. I tolerated it but wished they continued to make DSLR's on A mount. It remains a mystery to me why Sony started E mount, and put so little effort into A mount. Now today we see the similar strategy, tons of models, lots of releases. Their lens line up is huge (possibly too big how many 50mm lenses do they have? and no 50mm F1.4 lol) Do we need a 40mm F2.5 G lens or 50mm F2.5 G? Probably not! The big days of sales are gone, perhaps DPR don't get that, so whatever new tech/gear comes out it's going to be much more expensive and sell in far lower quantities than 10 years ago. I have to be honest the whole modern camera industry "bores me silly", their innovation is in spec sheets and little else.

I did think about that Panasonic as a camera for video it's fairly good from what I see and the cost is pretty low
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread post by classiccameras »

Some say the photo press killed Off Olympus 4/3 E mount system which left them high and dry as to where to go, now we know where, there was no ware else except M 4/3. The Sony A 580 was a great camera, but it died along with the other sensible A mount cameras.

Amateur Photographer renowned for their bias towards the big 3 Canon, Nikon and Pentax, nothing else existed but now we see them singing the praises of the mirrorless revolution. If E mount is the way forward for Sony then I won't be joining them, Panasonic seem to get things right both for Video and the stills market, they are a very large global company like Sony but with a completely different strategy.
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