7 or 9, which would you pick ?

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7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Maxxum 7
Maxxum 7 with VC-7
Maxxum 9
Maxxum 9 with VC-9
Both, I am Minoltan
Neither, I have buried my film cameras
Total votes: 53

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:10 am

David, I am shocked to hear this.

The fact they dumped spare parts, is bad enough, but to threaten action against a club, is astonishing. I really would not have expected this from the company. I guess as time goes on, we will be left with only s/h parts from cameras out there, which is sad really. The last film body I have is the dynax 60, which isnt anywhere near as common as the dynax 5. No idea what would be the situation with trying to fix that, probably a non starter. Fortunate that there are people who look after their stuff, and you can even today buy a pretty much as new 7000, even this time after it's release.

Wonder what the spare part situation is with the digital bodies. I have resisted buying a 5 or 7 digital, as the fear of AS failure is too great! Though the 5 is cheap now, must be said.

What a shame, Minolta acted like this. I remember reading they were a bit nasty to Dyxum too, with regards their manual downloads etc. Maybe the sony buyout is not a bad thing for users in the long term.

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby Javelin » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:03 am

Sony wold act the same way if you put up a web site with Sony trademarks all over the place I think.

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:25 am

Javelin wrote:i'm not sure what the reasoning is but thats pretty common. When Chrysler took over AMC they destroyed everything that was in inventory that hadn't already been distributed along with all the tooling used to make parts all the way back to the 50's must be an accountant thing ..

Accountant and legal. The reason KM destroyed all the service dept stock (at Milton Keynes) and all the remaining warehouse stock (at Feltham) was to prevent unauthorised assembly or repair of products, and to comply with lease terms. And the reason they wanted the club closing was because they held the Data Protection Act authority for the records, and they wanted to bury the association of Konica Minolta with cameras totally. I think that was part of their deal with Sony, to withdraw all evidence of KM branding. Sony polices misuse of trademarks closely and that's why we don't attempt to brand Photoclubalpha closer to Sony styling.

The lease on KM's service dept was terminated on March 30th 2006 (I think - it may have been two weeks later, period of grace). There were penalties in place if ANYTHING - furniture, records, parts, tools - was left behind. Sony had not yet appointed JP, and had no service dept of their own for SLR cameras (etc) able to take the stuff. The Japanese management ordered the complete clearance of the building on March 30 because they had to, after trying every possible way to get Sony to take the gear. At that point someone phoned Camera Repair Workshop - in the evening before the midnight deadline - to come and get everything they could. They only had a van and they filled it with the most relevant stuff. I believe that the disposal skips were sealed to prevent theft. However, as we know, a whole batch of things like 50mm calibration lenses and even an anti-shake testing bench appeared on eBay shortly afterwards, so it looks if the 'recycling' firm had some photo enthusiasts around...

Exactly the same situation applied to the Feltham warehouse. I bid a fixed cash sum for which I was sent an articulated truck full of goods dating back from 1970-something onwards. I had failed to select many items from the inventory because I did not know they were of any use (or what they were - most had cryptic codes. My colleague Adrian Paul did the same, and so did Morgan Computers and a couple of other dealers (they got lens and flash stock etc, Adrian and I only got offered bags, accessories, filters, straps and things like that - different warehouses).

Here's what I had to deal with arriving in my yard:


I know for sure that ten times this quantity of stuff was securely trashed by KM from the warehouses.

So don't blame KM, or Sony. Remember, much of the warehouse contents either had to be sold, or high fees paid for waste disposal. I got all their spare batteries for example, including lithium cells and NiCad packs. These goods can not just be dumped in a skip. In the last 24 hours of KM, Paul Genge was meeting Minolta Club members by appointment and selling them lenses which the trade had not bought (or had been overlooked in inventory). I had to make an urgent phone call to one of my regular friends and helpers in the club to see if he wanted a half price 70-200mm SSM, it was the last item to go, and he met him outside the closed doors of the office. The sense of 'last days' and the finality of the property owner arriving to lock the doors and put seals on all entrances must be a really strange thing to deal with.

Remember this when the next few thousand bank employees get told to clear their desks.


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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby PhotoTraveler » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:53 am

Well, that probably gives me a big hint of were my 50mm calibration lens came from (can't remember if the seller was in the UK or not). It's not useful for anything, it's just a nice piece of history for my collection (and gives me one of the rarest Minolta A mount lenses ever). Mine could have come from Phil in NJ far as I know.

I think what went down varies around the world. I know there was issues in the US at first, but in talking with Sony folks at PMA07 when this was a big issue, they mentioned how they had now received the loads of parts from KM. Also for a time, some people reported getting sony badged replacement parts for their 7Ds. I know some other repair centers in the US got some parts. I am having a lens checked out at one and they report they can't get new parts, but do have an inventory of parts they can work from. Sony also told me way back then that many of the early buy out's of broken KM cameras were in turn used as parts cameras for repairs.

It might not be a great market for bodies, but I think you can get some good money on even damaged gear if it is good parts for some good gear. Like lenses. I have been surprised no one has ever created a lens boneyard website (for all brands), just buy everything at yard sales and so forth no matter how much love it needs if the price is next to free. With the right manuals, you could manage interchange of parts between lenses pretty well. Just dumb little common parts like screws and springs could fetch some money for people needing the right part. I know I have lost a pile of those balls used in aperture rings of MC lenses.

I think many people would be shocked by how common gear destruction is. I've seen it where my parents work were mountains of good hardware was continually destroyed, or sold to employees for near nothing. It's the accounting. They just want to get it off the books as an assets. So you destroy it, it's no longer an assets, and if you transfer it to another party, you can get taxed on that transfer. I've know people who worked for companies and built whole warehouses of new product, and before it was announced, the orders came to destroy it. Product never launched, product never spoken of. Happens every day. Market changes and the product doesn't fit. Focus of company changes and they don't want the liability of supporting that product, so they destroy it all.

Just from the way Sony folks talked at that first PMA (07) for them, it came across pretty clear to me the 7Dii was done and has been produced, but all units had since been destroyed. Just the way when I asked them and said 7Dii their response was politics wouldn't let sony use it was a solid hint as they confirmed the name. KM announced they were getting out, right before the beginning of when the 7Dii would have been announced at PMA06. Someplace in asia there is probably a ditch full of them. Think of folks like KM SEA who over time has basically been validated (all the gear he spoke of has been now announced (9D as the A900, new bigger flash in the form of 58AM, 100-400 replacement in the form of 70-400), the 7Dii having been in production was another, and fits the timeline. Why it didn't come out is hard to say. It could be Sony just wanted to re-do it with more identity, or they couldn't handle 2 bodies at once (granted very early only before the Sony launch they sure hinted like 2 bodies would come), or they figured the body was becoming obsolete fast as by the time it would be launched as a Sony the D200 would be heading towards 9months old as is. The world will probably never know. Oh well.

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Goodness, this closure story is a shame.

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:52 pm

Perhaps I should get myself a spare 7 for parts - when my Built-in flash module got damaged, the repair estimate was 3 times the price of a used 7... good thing that the rest of the camera works fine.

As for the question, I'll go for the 7 any day. I don't need the tank-like build of the 9, and the better AF, better (IMHO, but quite similar) interface and lighter weight of the 7 are winners for me. Having said that, unfortunately I don't shoot much film today (favorit film: Ektachrome 100. Favorite Neg: Kodak Ultra Color 400 (UC), Favorite B/W: several films), High price and processing costs (especially slides; The price, after discount, of E-6 processing in Israel is around 8$ a piece) and limited availability of B/W paper, makes this option a bit unpractical for day-to-day use. for Special projects, I still shoot slides, and two years ago I've used my last roll of Ektar 25 for a job requiring 4X6 feet enlargement.

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby xzulx » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:47 am

woooo really shocking info from David, i didn't expect that they dispose all the stuff inside the factory. I did heard from a friend of mine which used to working in the Malaysia Konica Minolta Factory (now with Sony) that they dispose the shutter replacement machine for KM DSLR. I've now own myself a Maxxum 7 and Dynax 9, i prefer Dynax 9 then Maxxum 7, i love the weight of Dynax 9, now i shoot film more then digital. :mrgreen:

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby artington » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:49 pm

I have owned a Dynax 7 for some years (and previously a Minolta SRT101b, XGM and XD7 - I still own the first and last of these three in wonderful condition, albeit the latter has been re-leathered) and loved it. Some weeks ago I had the opportunity to buy another, mint in box with only 25 rolls through it, for £200 from a dealer. It is now locked away and will be used occasionally to keep the mechanism nicely freed up. That way if the first goes I shall have another. While I enjoy digital I still prefer film, not least because I just love getting 5x7.5 or 6x9 hard copy back from the processor. (I use Peak Imaging who are good and reliable in my opinion.) It seems to me that the current give-away pricing on Dynax 7s is a great opportunity for those like me who would like the comfort of having a good working spare.

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby Omega892 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:08 pm

About a few years back I took my Dynax 7 out of the cupboard with the intent of running some film through it I have old stock that I was going to use on thunderstorms - the Dynax 7D was just taking too long to clear the red if a sky without light detail was recorded. To my dismay I discovered that the outside coating on the backplate was sticky to the touch. I learned that I was not alone with this problem.

I have sorted this now by using a disposable but relatively tough cloth, a pack of dried out Super Softy wipes in my case, with a little isopropyl alcohol spaked in and rubbed firmly across the surface. A brownish residue came off on the cloth but the backplate surface dried nice and smooth. Do not over-soak the cloth in IPA and take care where the folds of cloth run as you rub so as not to have IPA leaching under switches and edges.
'Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.' - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: 7 or 9, which would you pick ?

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:46 pm

I haven't taken my Minolta 7 out for a long time. I bought it new in January 2002 and then soon after bought a Minolta D7i. I never used the 7 again even though it had only 2-3 rolls of film through it. I still have my 707si, 7xi, 7000i, and X-700 too and some other film cameras. Sold the 9xi and XK in 2000. The last time I looked at the film cameras I noticed that the 707si had some sort of sticky/oily substance on the exterior. I think something is happening to the plastic. I haven't checked the insides of any of the cameras. I hope they are okay.

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