Photoclubalpha

Firstly, I certainly don't object to the way you have proposed to select the final images for any challenge. Although members - such as myself who are infrequent - may feel a bit left out.
But where are the results and where is the announcement that voting can take place? In the challenge itself virtually precludes non-entrants from voting.
I notice that "Old MacDonald ...." has been voted on. I didn't participate in that challenge so no thread that I contributed to was ever updated for that voting.
O.k. I can live with that but then.... Where is the thread "Challenge 10 Voting"? It isn't part or "Aster's Photo Challenge" and I just can't find it!
Can I suggest that in future you open the voting thread in this forum, "Aster's Photo Challenge"?
At least then, people with an infrequent interest and non-entrants of a challenge might see the thread, whether they entered or not?

Hi Cogito,

Believe me I understand your frustration only too well. In my previous challenges, prior to "Old MacDonald...", I did everything on my own and selected the winning photo by testing them against some quality requirements like composition, relevancy, post-processing and such. That selection process was less work and required no participation from the forum members.

Then, during "Old MacDonald..", I wondered if asking for votes from the forum members by privately messaging them was a more democratic method and asked the forum members.
On September 11, I started this thread to seek for some answers: Voting Procedure for the Challenges

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/vie ... 068#p29068

The ideas for voting developed around what the members provided as a feedback and I announced the procedure which you can see in the attachment.

Honestly, due to its workflow and nature, it proved more time-consuming and difficult. Time-consuming because I have to prepare alternating private messages where I attach 3 images to every single message so they can give points to the images. I sent them to at least 10 members that frequented the forum which included the challenge's participants as well.

Then, I added up all the points for each photo and with the photos that got the highest sum of points, finally arranged a Poll in the Poll Section of the board because we can't technically set up a poll in the Aster's Photo Challenge forum.

This whole process proved difficult, because while some members sent back their choice of images pretty quickly some never even answered and some refused to give points to other photographers' photos and said they wanted to vote only for their own photos.

I really want to include our respectable members in the process of selecting the photos that can enter a poll of 10 photos which appeared more of a democratic process at the time. But some private objections also proved to me that people were not democratic enough to handle voting for other's images. (Polls technically can only handle 10 selections, I'm afraid)

Though difficult and slow, we managed to pull through the last one. But now I'm reconsidering going back to my old way which is less time-consuming and where I can really act objectively and think on each image throughly.

At this moment, there's no voting taking place for the Challenge 10 yet, I haven't even sent out private messages to members to collect their 'points'. And I may never do that either. I have just completed the first phase where I selected the most relevant and the best quality with good composition and such.

I either will announce the winner straight out in the Challenge 10 thread or will take a second chance and send out private messages ... and maybe set up a poll once again. (I'm on a small holiday right now and will resume in a day or so)

Please keep informing me of your frustrations and thoughts. I appreciate them all and take them into account.

Thank you,
Yildiz

Not a fan of the current system here.

I am a member of another forum where they do regular photo challenges.
The winner of the previous challenge starts the new challenge.
It is open for X number of days.
At the end of that time, the previous winner picks 5 photos to be voted on and starts a poll.
The voting is left open for a few days.
The membership votes.
At the end of the voting, the new winner is crowned and the process starts again.

Lonnie Utah wrote:Not a fan of the current system here.

I am a member of another forum where they do regular photo challenges.
The winner of the previous challenge starts the new challenge.
It is open for X number of days.
At the end of that time, the previous winner picks 5 photos to be voted on and starts a poll.
The voting is left open for a few days.
The membership votes.
At the end of the voting, the new winner is crowned and the process starts again.

Sounds a bit like Dyxum, but I suggested something along those lines originally.
And that way you get all your eggs in one forum plus everyone gets to play.
E.g.
First thread is for instance Challenge 99 ....
This will contain all the entries.
Second thread is for instance Challenge 99 .... Finalists.
As far as I'm concerned Yildiz can choose the finalists. And then people cast their votes in the same thread. See Dyxum for their voting rules. If Yildiz wants someone else to count the threads, I'm sure someone will agree.
Third thread is for instance Challenge 99 .... Results.
At least this way all forum members know where all the threads are and can participate.... Just go to Aster's Forum......

Only two threads per contest. Entries and voting. The winner in "announced" in those threads.

I am going to experiment with this in the Self portrait thread..

Hi Cogito and Lonnie Utah,

May I propose that each of you start a challenge to run in the next few weeks so that we can all get the feel of how the challenges will end up and how the turn up by members will be?

Cogito, please select a subject line and decide on the rules and start a challenge thread. A subject that this particular board (PhotoClubAlpha)'s members can contribute to would be ideal.
Let's see how it goes..

Lonnie, you can do exactly the same with a new challenge subject or try your system for the "Selfportrait".

Let's see our 'good' options for challenges in full function on the table and we can talk about what failing parts later.

Ok, the floor is yours gentlemen..

Yildiz

I like this Challenge the way it is! Flexible, fun, different and not (Regular) ;^)

aster wrote:Lonnie, you can do exactly the same with a new challenge subject or try your system for the "Selfportrait".

That's what I am going to do. I think I got confused about the rules for the others being the same for the whole forum......

Now get your photos to that thread everyone.....

aster wrote:Hi Cogito and Lonnie Utah,
May I propose that each of you start a challenge to run in the next few weeks so that we can all get the feel of how the challenges will end up and how the turn up by members will be?

Cogito, please select a subject line and decide on the rules and start a challenge thread. A subject that this particular board (PhotoClubAlpha)'s members can contribute to would be ideal.
Let's see how it goes..
Yildiz

O.K. I'll try but since there are already challenges 13, 14, 15, 16 anf 17 going, I'll wait 'til a couple finish.....

aster wrote:

This whole process proved difficult, because while some members sent back their choice of images pretty quickly some never even answered and some refused to give points to other photographers' photos and said they wanted to vote only for their own photos.

That surprised me a bit. I would never vote for my own photo. It should be a condition of judging. (and politics - can't vote for yourself).

Ewannawe wrote: I would never vote for my own photo. It should be a condition of judging. (and politics - can't vote for yourself).

Disagree. Everyone will just vote for themselves and it will all balance out.

Lonnie Utah wrote:

Ewannawe wrote: I would never vote for my own photo. It should be a condition of judging. (and politics - can't vote for yourself).

Disagree. Everyone will just vote for themselves and it will all balance out.

Hi,

I agree with Ewannawe because although the voting is open to everyone, there are not many outsiders / non-participants that may be willing to vote to change the balance and the whole objective of the voting becomes a futile attempt at specifying something that just doesn't show in the voting.

That's what the "Old MacDonald.." challenge taught me while it was still in the run;
We have some very exceptional forum members who are truely respectable, so much that when it was time to vote they unselfishly voted for an other photographer's photo in a gentlemanly manner. When there are such thoughtful people being unselfish, it becomes very easy for an other to change the way the wheel is turning for their own photo because they know they won't be detected.

If we had hundreds of active members with an interest in the challenge votings, the 'vote-for-oneself' view may not be a 'tipping-off' factor; +1 vote wouldn't be such a big deal with such a load of participation from many people.

Thanks
Yildiz

Ewannawe wrote: That surprised me a bit. I would never vote for my own photo. It should be a condition of judging. (and politics - can't vote for yourself).

I disagree. I would vote for my own photo if I truly believed it better than the rest (They'd have to be pretty poor for me to beat them!)

However I would ALWAYS vote for myself in politics. If there was somebody better running, I wouldn't run!

Dusty

Newsflash to the forum: Taste in art is SUBJECTIVE.

If I think my photo is the best, I've voting for myself. If you disagree, then vote for what you like. It's not like we are trying to save the world here. There is no money, or real prizes at stake. Nobody's going to prison if they lose.

In reality, the results here mean nothing, maybe bragging rights at the most. But who wants to brag about winning here? If you want to vote for yourself, go for it.

Lonnie Utah wrote: There is no money, or real prizes at stake.

You never know who may be watching...It's a discreet world out there...and I strongly believe we have some 'jewels' in here....

Yildiz