Nex Cameras as reviewed by DPReview

[Edgars L]

I think the problem is that Sony never told a full story...

It is obvious, people are crying for usual Sony screen in NEX camera. I'm also didn't understand why Sony couldn't implement it as well as QuickNavi interface as custom selectable possibility. They already have it and for manipulation with it only two buttons or button and control dial could be necessary.

Another part of story would be rumoured NEX-7. If we will get more advanced camera with plenty of controls EVF etc. then I didn't see any reason to improve NEX-5 for advanced users. But if NEXt will be 'announced' mock-up of camcorder and we didn't get more advanced camera this year, then it is obvious Sony should improve NEX-5 menus.

P.S. of course annoyed people will never be happy...

[Mark K]

Hi guys, thought I'd chime in here as a p&s user who has a Panasonic TZ7 and was looking to 'move up' in terms of iq. Originally I looked at the Panasonic GF1 and the Olympus E-PL1 but upon hearing of the new Sony NEX-5 I was pretty much sold.

I've been reading all the reviews and videos I can find on it and think it's the prefect camera for me, mainly due its size but also the features it has compared to the M43 offerings such as auto-HDR and sweep panorama! Yes I do realize it's not exactly pocketable but if the iq is a lot better than my TZ7 in low light (which I think is a fair bet to think that it is) but it's still smaller than a normal DSLR and size is a big issue for me! The criticisms about the UI are a moot point for me.

Really I think those who are lamenting it because they can't change iso in a split second are really clutching at straws especially since Sony have said that the product isn't aimed towards them. I do find that there are many people who really want Sony to fail with the NEXT range whether they know it or not for whatever reason. Though this is just my own observations from someone who has just entered into the photography world but the hate is fairly obvious to my eyes as a newbie.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the NEX-5 and have the twin lenses kit on order at Jessops and can't wait to play around with it. My local store have had a few in today but they're all the single lens kit

At least I believe this is very true ever since Sony bought Minolta. When Minolta came out with KM 7D, I had still got a few people around me using Minolta but the day Sony bought Minolta, everything changes. I can't tell how much hatred people have against Sony as a camera maker. It is good Sony brought us an A900/a850 with CA lenses and I really hope they can continue to do so with Nex range cameras.

[Vidgamer]

...
I'm just talking basic camera operation here..a exposure mode dial would be useful.

I thought David said you pushed a button and rotated the dial. At least that one sounds pretty easy and basic.

Being able to set basic areas such as ISO and WB too.

I have to dive into the menu to set this on my P&S. It didn't cause me to toss my P&S. But it is not as easy as on my DSLR.

On my A100, I have to rotate a dial. What's nice about that is that if I know I'm going to change ISO a lot, I can leave the dial set so ISO comes up first. I love the dial, but they don't even have two dials like that on the newer Sony DSLRs. So, if my criteria is a two-dial system, what do I get? Not a Sony... I guess my point is that you have to adjust to different cameras, even DSLRs, sometimes.

Realistically, with Auto ISO going to 1600, I would probably not need to visit it often. Currently, my Auto ISO stops at 400. Only for certain events do I really need to fix ISO. Auto ISO is more than convenience. What is important is the shutter and aperture -- letting the camera adjust the ISO is a real advantage, not a disadvantage. I found Auto ISO to work well at my last outing (at an airshow). Whether it's taken at 100 or 160 or 200 is irrelevant, although one could argue that ISO 400 is a bit too noisy. But more important is that I control the shutter speed and/or aperture. Particularly at the airshow, you end up wanting to shoot within a certain range of shutter speed. If the camera needs a higher ISO to get there and it can do it for me, why not let it do it than having to dive into a menu? It's not as if I set it to 100 and wanted a higher shutter speed that it would magically work; I mean, if it was too dark to set manually to ISO 100 then I'm going to have to manually set it to what the camera would set it to anyways. (Normally on a bright day it wouldn't matter so much, but when using dim lenses and/or teleconverters...)

A button you can custom set to a specific function. An option to set auto ISO..go read the luminous landscape article for a demolition job on Sony handling.

Yeah I read that a while ago. But I can't help but feel that if the Nex is to be compared to P&S cameras if it's really any worse. It probably only suffers in comparison to DSLRs.

I've read a number of people mention that the "help" button could double as a custom function button, which I think is a great idea. I wouldn't exactly hold my breath for Sony to do it, but it's a great idea and might go a long way. I like it.

If Sony want to do a simple simon job then take out the aperture and shutter priority modes and the manual ones as well. After all I know of very few p&s users who use them. Mixed signals here I don't think they entirely know who they are aiming at.

The expression that comes to mind is, this is cutting the nose off to spite one's face. If they expected everyone using the camera to be a very basic user, they should half the price and call it an HX5V. I mean, really. If someone really just needs a P&S, the HX5V seems like a great one.

Using this logic, why not remove RAW mode as well? What about being able to use manual adapted lenses? If any of these things were missing, I can just imagine the howls. Now it has too many features? If you want to find problems with the camera, I'm sure you will. Every camera has it's pluses and minuses.

I'm starting to think, the only reason there are so many complaints about the UI is because everything else looks so good. The small size, the large sensor, the cool modes like HDR and Twilight... For me, they had to nail the image quality, if nothing else. And they did that. Now we can bicker about smaller things, but it looks like they got the most important part worked out. It even looks good at high ISO. A Sony camera, no less! I'm starting to wonder if, between 14 mp and high ISO, this would be a serious upgrade from my A100. I bet manual focusing would be a lot easier too.

One person posted that if Sony made this camera with a traditional camera UI, it would be a bit more ho-hum and get less attention. I'd suspect that it'd also cost more, as they'd be forced to add more buttons, maybe another dial somewhere, etc. I think Sony made certain design considerations on purpose, and they are not a mistake. As with any case of disruptive technology, the status-quo will be confused at first, perhaps dismissing the upstart as a toy, not even a serious challenge. We'll see.

[Vidgamer]

Now "normal" people can click and 90% of the time take good photos, and it's going to really annoy the status-quo.

A few years ago SLRs and P&S cameras all had FF sensors. I don't recall that 90% of the time people were taking good photos with the P&S cameras (or the SLRs for that matter).

That's the kind of attitude I'm talking about! How dare those idiots be allowed to use large sensors! Make them suffer with high noise to go along with their substandard snaps.

On a more serious note... I recall many years ago, someone admiring the large depth of field in my photos. I responded that it was nothing special, just a small lens (and thus aperture) on the film p&s camera. (Its not a bug, it's a feature!)

Even so, I have been wondering the past couple of years if the quality was higher when I used film, compared to digital small sensored cameras. While I did have a lot of keepers, with digital, I have felt much more free to try things. With the dslr, I have enough quality, perhaps more than film.

But ok forget 90%. When I hear multiple coworkers say they want indoor low light photos of kids, I don't see the point in recommending a small sensored camera. How could you not get, at least potentially, better photos? Life's too short for blurry photos, even if they are crummy snaps that mean nothing to anyone but the photographer.

[bakubo]

Now "normal" people can click and 90% of the time take good photos, and it's going to really annoy the status-quo.

A few years ago SLRs and P&S cameras all had FF sensors. I don't recall that 90% of the time people were taking good photos with the P&S cameras (or the SLRs for that matter).

That's the kind of attitude I'm talking about! How dare those idiots be allowed to use large sensors! Make them suffer with high noise to go along with their substandard snaps.

You have it 180 degrees backwards. My attitude is everyone can have FF (or APS-C) sensors in their cameras -- just like was the norm 5-10 years ago -- and I hope we can get back to that. I am just saying that your faith that not having an APS-C sensor in a small camera is all that is standing between people having 90% of their photos be "good" is maybe, possibly just a bit naive.

[pakodominguez]

I'm starting to think, the only reason there are so many complaints about the UI is because everything else looks so good. The small size, the large sensor, the cool modes like HDR and Twilight...

never thought about that...
:-p

It even looks good at high ISO. A Sony camera, no less! I'm starting to wonder if, between 14 mp and high ISO, this would be a serious upgrade from my A100. I bet manual focusing would be a lot easier too.

Yes, since the A500/A550, noise is not an issue on Sony cameras anymore. But good news never sell...

Regards

[Greg Beetham]

That's the potential hazard alright, just because the average Joe now can have the resolving power of a DSLR in a mini camera doesn't necessarily translate into better photos, it's quite possible of course, but I still think the average Joe needs to know a little bit about DOF (and actual focus point) when using a larger sensor with the longer lenses, there is a fair amount of difference in focus depth when comparing an APS-C sensor against a small sensor camera, I guess most will survive quite happily in Auto land, it depends on just how foolproof the NEX Auto mode actually is....face/smile detect could save the day.
Greg

[Vidgamer]

That's the potential hazard alright, just because the average Joe now can have the resolving power of a DSLR in a mini camera doesn't necessarily translate into better photos, it's quite possible of course,

And? So what if every photo is poorly composed from a particular user? It still sounds to me like the elite class not wanting the commoners to have the capability of having better photos. What individuals do or not do with it is their problem, but at least give people the ability to move up from blurry photos. Give them a fighting chance!

Right now -- with today's P&S cameras -- users are getting blurry photos where they should not need to. A camera with a better sensor (and other features) even in auto mode should improve many of these results.

Now, a small camera with the quality of a DSLR in the hands of a "real" photographer? Why not? Why force someone who's interested in photography into a large form-factor? Just because they'll look the part? If it's the photographer and not the camera that leads to good photos, then I'd expect to see great travel photos from photographers everywhere coming from this new class of smaller cameras.

but I still think the average Joe needs to know a little bit about DOF (and actual focus point) when using a larger sensor with the longer lenses, there is a fair amount of difference in focus depth when comparing an APS-C sensor against a small sensor camera, I guess most will survive quite happily in Auto land, it depends on just how foolproof the NEX Auto mode actually is....face/smile detect could save the day.
Greg

Isn't that what a lot of people want? Photos of their loved ones, focused on their faces. Done. They will have more keepers and be blissfully unaware as to the technical reasons, but it will indeed be partly due to the camera.

You have it 180 degrees backwards. My attitude is everyone can have FF (or APS-C) sensors in their cameras -- just like was the norm 5-10 years ago -- and I hope we can get back to that. I am just saying that your faith that not having an APS-C sensor in a small camera is all that is standing between people having 90% of their photos be "good" is maybe, possibly just a bit naive.

Yes, I know you're trying to poke fun! That's OK. I guess the point is, what are users going to do? Most of them are not doing art. I think you just have to let that one go.

It's not as if I expect a better camera to allow ordinary people to start selling their photos on Alamy or something, but I think there is still a lot of room for improvement in everyday snaps. And yet, there's this huge resistance to auto mode and improvements for everyday people. Why is that, if it isn't a desire to keep people out of the secret club? Curious.

Years ago when all there was was film, I took photos, and not all of them were artistic, but now and then I got photos I really enjoyed. With digital, I was able to improve much more quickly, but the results, ultimately weren't as good until the cameras had a few years to advance. Now, I'm spoiled by the IQ of the DSLR, but it is now large enough that I don't always take it with me. So, all of that quality is going to waste in some cases.

I just want to get back to the point where I could have an easier-to-carry camera for travel, but with good results. Is this really too much to ask? I don't think so! And if someone else gets better family snapshots using face detection? All the better.

[Greg Beetham]

I'm not trying to be an elitist Vidgamer, I'm a realist.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Ah but Vidgamer isn't a newbie p&s user thus these models are not aimed at him ;-0

[Greg Beetham]

There's a couple of obstacles that the NEX concept might have too overcome when someone looking at purchasing a small camera is trying to decide which one to get, apart from the cost, which is quite a bit more than the usual avarage cost of a camera around that body size. There is the necessity of purchasing an extra lens (at least) too get equivalent coverage, and then the bother of carrying that extra lens around eveywhere along with the camera, and that extra lens adds to the cost of the whole package. On top of that the equivalent zoom lens adds to the size and bulk of the camera (unfortunately there is no way around that), when compared to the average P&S.
It's in a niche all of it's own, where those who have the knowledge (or the salesperson informs and demonstrates about the advantages of the large sensor NEX over the typical small sensor P&S camera), are willing to part with the extra dosh and are prepared to carry the extra lens, and maybe the little flash as well, around everywhere.
There is a possibility of dust accumulating on the sensor also, the normal everyday P&Ser might not be aware of that issue with a camera that you can change lenses on.
I'm not saying there won't be lots of buyers, it just remains to be seen how many customers are actually IN that particular niche.
Greg

[Vidgamer]

Ah but Vidgamer isn't a newbie p&s user thus these models are not aimed at him ;-0

Something like the EP1 or EP2 might be more aimed at me, but I have the feeling that the Sony will be a better performer in many ways. I'll just have to work around the rest of it.

I'm not saying there won't be lots of buyers, it just remains to be seen how many customers are actually IN that particular niche.

I suppose it could blow over like a fad. Time will tell.

There is the necessity of purchasing an extra lens (at least) too get equivalent coverage

Depends on what you're comparing it to. For the HX5V I mentioned, I think the zoom range is similar. The feature list is kind of similar. So, for half the price, one can pick up a P&S with one of the better P&S-size sensors. Truly pocketable, but the IQ is not going to be nearly the same. Still, it might be good enough for most people. I think those two cameras would make an interesting comparison.

For people who want a P&S superzoom, I don't know... the 18-200 looks interesting, but large. Maybe most people would rather have the P&S, particularly if size is an issue. But I don't think it's a given that most people are going to need multiple lenses.

[Greg Beetham]

Well if I was looking at buying one I'd want the 16mm lens, it looks like it's quite a decent lens, and the 18-55 zoom looks like it's quite pocketable when mounted so I'd want that one as well, one could always zoom a little bit with the feet and maybe crop a bit if necessary, there are plenty of pixels so that wouldn't have much impact, and one would still end up with a very good photo. I guess a lot of people would just opt for the 18-55 and leave it at that, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having an interchangable lens camera.
There is another angle as well... I just wonder how many people who have bought, say, the entry model DSLR (any brand) with a kit lens and left it at that, never bothering to go back for any other lenses or accessories....probably a lot.
Greg

[Danjojo_Resurrected1]

I posted on DPReview as Danjojo and was banned for supporting the aNEX cameras against all the b.s. and exaggerations. I was e-mailed asking if I work for Sony and also told "try posting in a way that doesn't make us look bad"

I only took this up because I believe these cameras will be great for professional lightweight gear or back up to a900 or similar, and better than great for the family camera many people are always looking for. I was shocked when I first went through the actual review they posted. At first just nicely saying things like "they actually start up much quicker than that" and receiving the usual reaction of rude, unprofessional remarks from staff and their groupies, saying others and I don't know what we are talking about. Of course now after we post up videos showing the NEX turning on in one second or less, they happen to come across a new camera with the proper firmware. How did we all know before they did?

Every post mentioning how the UI actually is not that bad and ISO, metering, white balance, etc. take all of five seconds is met with same rude personal criticism. Groupies sent to attack "how do you know better than dpreview, they actually used the camera for a month and you never seen it!" Now again with people posting videos showing it is indeed stupid simple, at least groupies are more quiet but the staff still throws in some smart ass remarks.

I made several large posts showing how many of the criticisms equally apply to several new dSLR models at the entry/beginner level and even went down the list they have for their Summary page showing how it compares very favorably to Canon T1i in so many areas and we could only honestly conclude it is superior in general. It was a very thorough post I would not repeat here but then I showed the score of 64% for NEX-5 and 75% for Canon T1i and asked how could this possibly be true? Why were they so in love with the T1i (now the T2i also) and give full recommendation but tell people to wait for the next generation of aNEX cameras?

They were all systematically went through and several deleted, a couple more times posting and that was it. Several people brought up my banishment and asked why, they were told I was using vulgar language and making personal attacks at staff...which never happened.

I signed up again as WilsonsLandscape and made sure not to mention the actual review but correct any b.s. slant from staff or groupies and again asked in e-mail if I work for Sony....this time with a ban to go with it. I told them who I am and why I was there but not that I was Danjojo and Richard Butler took off the ban. After several posts showing I know what I am talking about and posting in favor of the NEX cameras as being good little cameras and better than they are being presented I found my self banished again. This time for...

Incident: 127192
Ban category: Spam / Commercial
Ban notes:
'Commercial, spamming, recruitment'

I see what they do is provide the obvious facts and features of a camera in their reviews, but then certain manufacturers models, they take opening possible to have negativity dominate the impression the reader will get.

I believe they are enjoying the taste of money from one or more manufacturers, blatantly throwing away integrity/professionalism in the product reviews of others. They made certain to closely monitor and attack any body who caught on to the gross misinterpretation they called a review. It's very interesting to watch and wonder.

Just don't post over there saying you are a professional photographer who believes the NEX is a good design and useful for pro and casual user...you will feel like you are surrounded by a SWAT team very quickly.

[bossel]

Just don't post over there

Good advice!

I guess we've all heard about how it's going over there. It's the Apple-style: we only allow what we like, call it c*nsorsh*p - gotcha! if you want. I was grateful for dpreview when I joined in 2002 because at that time you could learn a lot in the forums. It's all over. Find yourself some other boards, like here, or dyxum or a local one...