Later NEX models I would like to see

[bakubo]

I recently started a thread where I said that although there were good things about the NEX 5/3 it wasn't what I am hoping for:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=35576304

The NEX 5/3 doesn't rock my boat, but since Sony has made it clear that they like to have many different models I can tell you what I would like to see in the future. These aren't pie-in-the-sky wishes. Just simple, down to earth models that could probably sell well.

1. A model with image stablization that has a smaller, non-interchangeable lens that retracts in the body when turned off. Basically, pretty much like just about all 35mm p&s cameras of just a few years ago. An OVF like they had too and a built-in flash like they had also. Of course, have the LCD on the back too that can tilt. I love LV for when it is appropriate, but want the OVF for when it is not. I don't know exactly what lens specs would be possible for a relatively small retractable lens, but based on what we saw with 35mm p&s cameras of a few years ago that had a much larger FF sensor, I suspect, that 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 would be possible. In some ways it is easier to make a good performing lens these days. Smaller APS-C sensor and plus now the camera can automatically correct distortion, CA, and vignetting for JPEGs and the RAW processing software (Sony, LR/ACR, DxO) can do it automatically for RAW files. Using the menu to make most changes is okay.

Since I want it to be a camera that I can carry in a pocket (at least the side pocket of cargo shorts) it doesn't have to be a super-duper, fully featured camera. It doesn't even have to be a heavy, all-metal camera. In fact, I would prefer this model not to be heavy. And a reasonable price.

2. Another model I would like to see is pretty similar to the NEX 5/3. Except it would have an accessory EVF. I read somewhere that it seems like the current models can't have one since the accessory mount doesn't have the proper electrical signals. Of course, I have no way to know if it is true, but I haven't heard of any Sony EVF in the announcements. It would also be cool to make it much more streamlined than the one Olympus sells. That one sticks way up and will definitely always be catching on things. I think that Sony could design one that follows the contours of the camera much better and not have that problem. Plus, add in-body image stabilization. Yeah, I realize the camera would have to be a bit thicker. If this was not doable (can't believe that) then IS in all the lenses.

Sure there are many other things some people would like to see in NEX. My intent was to try and not wish for the moon, but just some fairly small things that would do it for me.

By the way, based on what I have read here in the last couple of weeks it is abundantly clear that some of the younger posters have become ossified in their ways, can't learn new techniques, and are afraid of change and new technologies. It is really sad to be so inflexible at such a young age because what does that portend for your future? Life is much easier if you can accept change, new ways of doing things, and alternatives because I guarantee you there will be a lot of changes over the years -- it never ends. I fully realize you have an emotional attachment to the rear LCD for composing photos, but live dangerously and just give other methods a try!

By the way, I posted this on the other forum also.

[Danjojo_Resurrected1]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me

[KevinBarrett]

Let's see, a NEX model that would work for me...I'm coming around to the NEX-5, really I am, but it would be a lot easier if there wasn't that awful clumsy flash attachment. No, I don't use flash often enough for it to get in the way of enjoying a good camera. I'm eager to hold and use a NEX to see how the interface works. Until I try one, I think I'd like a camera with a few more direct controls, but I never would have imagined I'd like the TX7's interface as much as I do...

A wish for the NEX-7 would be to have either an Alpha hotshoe or a non-proprietary flash sync port. It is conceivable that an adapter could be made to do this for the existing cameras. Would it be pie-in-the-sky dreaming to hope for all of Sony's future flash-guns to fire with built-in radio-triggers? Heck, they could make it the most exclusively proprietary system and I'd be game for it. Consider that Sony's $300 PS3 comes with built-in WIFI and a wireless controller. Extra wireless controllers are $50. Checked the price on a Sony-branded flash-gun lately? How about a 1.5m TTL cord?

[Mark K]

Given the features, which I also want in my own Nex cameras, there are only two possibilities. One is that Sony will make a camera using smaller sensors like rumoured Nikon Evil so that all these buttons, EVFs, SSS can be built into a smaller body with small sized lenses.
The Second option is to continue to use our current alpha dSLRs with smaller body sizes.

[Birma]

I'd probably be a customer for Henry's first option. I'm not optimistic however. Isn't this the same sort of thing as the Sigma DP1 and 2?

If I was in the market for a small camera then the Nex look ok, but until they have AF for Alpha mount there isn't anything to stop me going for a Panny either.

Funnily enough it is the flash that bothers me more than the OVF. I don't need a "real" flash, just a little 'blip' for lighting shadows when the subject is backlit. The separate attachment would be too fiddley for that spur of the moment shot.

[bossel]

Lets be really innovative: What about a stabilized NEX with changeable front-plate? The frontplate could contain either

- the NEX mount
- the alpha mount with AF
- a fixed, retractable or not, build in lens

Now that would be cool and you'd have always the right NEX whatever you need

[Greg Beetham]

You know what would happen then Bossel? I bet It'll probably be something like this: Which setup will I need today?...the fixed zoom plate? (hmm..it might not have a long enough reach), the E-mount plate? (hmm..I've only got a few lenes for that but they aren't too bad, maybe I should take it along just in case), the A-mount plate? (hmm..how many lenses do I need, one? a couple? a few? better take a bigger bag ...and tip out the A700...too make room for the NEX and the front plates, attachments, and all the lenses I'm likely to need)
Greg

[Vidgamer]

I'd probably be a customer for Henry's first option. I'm not optimistic however. Isn't this the same sort of thing as the Sigma DP1 and 2?
...

I think lack of zoom was a big problem for Sigma. But reviews also said it had shutter lag or other slowness? It sounded interesting, though.

[bakubo]

I'd probably be a customer for Henry's first option. I'm not optimistic however. Isn't this the same sort of thing as the Sigma DP1 and 2?

No, it is actually almost completely different. No zoom lens. No image stabilization. No OVF. No flash. Slow.

Funnily enough it is the flash that bothers me more than the OVF. I don't need a "real" flash, just a little 'blip' for lighting shadows when the subject is backlit. The separate attachment would be too fiddley for that spur of the moment shot.

Yeah, that is why I want one built-in too. A camera I can carry around all the time like I do now with my digicam. My digicam has everything I listed except it has a tiny sensor. I can do quite a bit with the tiny sensor, see my tiny sensor photo thread, but you don't want to go above ISO 200. I would like a pocket camera that can do about as well as an APS-C DSLR.

[Birma]

I'd probably be a customer for Henry's first option. I'm not optimistic however. Isn't this the same sort of thing as the Sigma DP1 and 2?

No, it is actually almost completely different. No zoom lens. No image stabilization. No OVF. No flash. Slow.

Ah, I hadn't realised this about the spec for the Sigmas. I can see why they were limiting.

If the size of lens is tricky for an APS-C 'compact' I wonder if Sony could do a trick like the Olympus micro 4/3s kit lens that sort of folds up smaller? Don't care about buttons on this sort of camera, but it has got to have options for raw.

[bakubo]

If the size of lens is tricky for an APS-C 'compact' I wonder if Sony could do a trick like the Olympus micro 4/3s kit lens that sort of folds up smaller? Don't care about buttons on this sort of camera, but it has got to have options for raw.

I certainly have no knowledge of lens design, but I can look at the 35mm p&s cameras (FF) that were so common until recently and the zoom lenses they had. Also, I can look at the many digicams with small sensors and the zoom lenses they have. I suspect something sort of like an 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 could be made that is small and retractable. Maybe, maybe not. Go look at some of the old 35mm p&s cameras though and see the size of some of the zoom lenses they had that were for FF. Many of them had long zooms, but usually very slow apertures. I wouldn't want that so for APS-C the kit lens specs seem much more reasonable.

[Danjojo_Resurrected1]

Does this sound right when talking about how large the mounts and lens diameters are for 4/3's and NEX systems?

"...made larger than a film equivalent would have been to maximize the possibility of telecentricism in lens design, as sensors don't work like film and don't collect as effectively from divergent light rays. This is a given of digital photography."

This is from RubberDials over at Dyxum, he went into a few more posts that had a lot more detail, but basically explaining how the mount seems large enough for a FF sensor but not if you want the right quality. This would seem it will be a long time until we have the tiny lenses of those older film cameras....new technology down the road maybe.

It's not a complete answer for In-Body Stabilization...but the AMB and Handheld Twilight modes work very well in real life for relatively still subjects. Kids playing sports and BIF with telephoto lenses maybe not, but then you will have OIS and you have enough light for faster shutter speeds. I've tried most every model with these modes and you get great results even with one-hand hold and wobbly arm fully extended, not that you would actually shoot like that.

[bakubo]

Does this sound right when talking about how large the mounts and lens diameters are for 4/3's and NEX systems?

"...made larger than a film equivalent would have been to maximize the possibility of telecentricism in lens design, as sensors don't work like film and don't collect as effectively from divergent light rays. This is a given of digital photography."

This is from RubberDials over at Dyxum, he went into a few more posts that had a lot more detail, but basically explaining how the mount seems large enough for a FF sensor but not if you want the right quality. This would seem it will be a long time until we have the tiny lenses of those older film cameras....new technology down the road maybe.

It is clearly the reason that the A900/A850 (with FF sensor) lens mount is so much larger than the A700/A550 (with APS-C sensor) lens mount. And the D3x/D3s/D700 lens mount is so much bigger than the D300s/D90 lens mount. And the 1ds4/5DII lens mount is so much bigger than the 7D/50D/550D lens mount.

Anyway, I can't say for sure. I suspect that this might be a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing though.

Also, just a reminder. We were talking about a non-interchangeable lens, i.e., fixed to the body.

[Greg Beetham]

When you stop and think about it, it's no wonder the camera manufacturers were happy too phase out the rangefinder/viewfinder and just rely on the rear screen, especially when it comes to large zoom ranges. But the VF option has been done before so it's not beaking any new ground, I don't see why they couldn't build an APS-C frame compact with an optical parralax free VF that zooms in unison with the primary lens, as long as that lens isn't too ambitious with the zoom range it shouldn't be a problem, the 18-55 f3.5-5.6 sounds good. It would be nice too have a couple of DSLR type options, like WB, ISO, +/- buttons, a rear controller and a DSLR type settings screen..and RAW/LJPEG option, might as well chuck in the i-shoe too...oh and a re-chargable lithium battery and SSS, that's about all I can think of at the moment that I would be happy with in a compact camera. Hard to say if it would actually sell though, would the high IQ win sales against other compacts with much bigger zoom ranges out there in P&S land?
Greg
ps. I forgot the AEL button, how could I forget that.
pps. Might as well have the sensor that switches off the rear screen when using the VF as well, and the rear screen flips out and swivels/reverses, also some of the buttons could be located in a row along the edge of the frame.

[KevinBarrett]

I'd suggest that future NEX models have a little more space around the tripod mount, but it might not be a significant problem with the smaller lenses that the NEX system wears. Sony wisely provides an optional tripod mount on the E-to-A mount adapter, which should be more helpful than the mount on the NEX body, providing more balance to the whole kit once a heavier Alpha lens is attached.